High level vs. Low level Ouput from HU, the X3, & wiring confusion? - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

CamaroFTW · 07-25-2012, 09:27 AM

OK Rock On Professor!

Let me know what you find out. I really appreciate it.

CamaroFTW · 08-02-2012, 06:57 PM

Just checking in again darkrider01? Words of wisdom?

darkrider01 · 08-02-2012, 08:05 PM

Well, I forgot to do it when I had my radio out last weekend (was having issues with other wiring and with my 3Sixty.3 install), but I said I was going to check it so I'm going to take it out again this weekend and find out. Sorry that it's taking so long but it seems like it's either 100+ degrees or I have to work. I'll get to it this weekend.

CamaroFTW · 08-02-2012, 08:37 PM

No apologies necessary but I would love to hear what you discover so I can plan my route. Mostly concerned with Onstar voice..rest is pretty planned out.

Thanks darkrider01!

darkrider01 · 08-05-2012, 10:54 PM

Ok. I tested everything quite thoroughly today with my radio and 3Sixty.3.

The Good Stuff:
The signal coming from the Telematics Communication Interface Module (TCIM) or Onstar module is a low level signal. I spliced a RCA into the DK Blue and Lt blu/blk wires and started by connecting it to the left AV input of my radio. It looks like (at least in the case of my Pioneer) that the baseline volume of the OnStar is about half that of the radio volume.

So now I ran an RCA cable to the 3Sixty.3 and used a Y-Adapter to connect the OnStar wire to the Front Left 2 and Front Right 2 inputs of my 3Sixty.3. I then ran the setup again and activated the Front Left 2 and Front Right 2 inputs and then summed them with the front right 1 and front left 1 outputs. It works pretty awesome this way, but there are 2 caveats I discovered (see below). The 3Sixty.3 has a step during setup that will allow you to adjust input levels of each input channel. For the best results, you may want to adjust the rest of your system levels down a little and boost the OnStar volume a bit, but it's really up to the end user. I would personally leave it where it is though as I found it loud enough to hear clearly at my normal listening volume.

The maybe Bad Stuff:
Since the Onstar volume does not come through the head unit, when you turn your head unit volume up loud, you may drown out the OnStar. The Onstar volume stays at a single level no matter what you do. The only way around this would be to use the Master Volume control feature of the 3Sixty.3 to control system volume. That would allow you to mute the radio and then adjust the Onstar volume as high as you like. Just don't forget to turn it back down before you un-mute your radio.

If you hit your OnStar button to make a call to OnStar, and you forget to mute your radio and then hit the "mute" button your steering wheel, it will hang up the call. I found it funny that that part of the steering wheel controls still works with the TCIM OnStar.

If you decide to use the BlueTooth module from the 3Sixty.3, you will not hear the Onstar as it would only come through the "Main" inputs. Same with Auxiliary and Optical inputs.

Did I miss anything? If so, ask away. I experimented for an hour or two, so there is a chance I tried something else that I'm not thinking of right now. In the end I just left the RCA plugged into my AV input on my radio, so I can use OnStar that way if I ever wanted.

jeepguy_1980 · 08-05-2012, 11:06 PM

That's good news and pretty much what I expected. I really think that RF could take the 3Sixty.3 one step further, without much effort.

If they setup the firmware to allow for better factory integration, i.e. chimes, OnStar, back up sensors, etc... and allowed the user to define which inputs are factory noises, which channels to route those inputs to, and how to handle the radio volume (mute, lower, leave alone), the 3Sixty.3 would be that much better and that much more popular.

I realize the level of perfection I/we want, pertaining to OEM integration, is probably greater than what other people want and are willing to pay for and research (in terms of which wires to cut/route). But still, I would like to see it.

I also think that you can do the same thing with the speaker in your scosche dash kit. That will be even smoother, since the OEM chimes don't mute the radio anyways.

darkrider01 · 08-05-2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepguy_1980

That's good news and pretty much what I expected. I really think that RF could take the 3Sixty.3 one step further, without much effort.

If they setup the firmware to allow for better factory integration, i.e. chimes, OnStar, back up sensors, etc... and allowed the user to define which inputs are factory noises, which channels to route those inputs to, and how to handle the radio volume (mute, lower, leave alone), the 3Sixty.3 would be that much better and that much more popular.

I realize the level of perfection I/we want, pertaining to OEM integration, is probably greater than what other people want and are willing to pay for and research (in terms of which wires to cut/route). But still, I would like to see it.

I also think that you can do the same thing with the speaker in your scosche dash kit. That will be even smoother, since the OEM chimes don't mute the radio anyways.

The best thing to do with the chimes on this Scosche kit would be to add a resistor and quiet it down - a lot. It's just too loud. No way would I ever want to amplify it!

I agree that it would be awesome to be able to do all that, and you know, it may still be kinda possible by software upgrade. I'll send that idea on to them (muting all input channels on signal from input X and/or reduce all inputs to 50% upon signal on input X). Who knows, maybe they'll listen because it seems pretty logical for "the ultimate signal processor" to be able to do something like that.

CamaroFTW · 08-06-2012, 02:09 AM

darkrider01...THANKS for all the news. I got home late and so will reread this all tomorrow!

jeepguy_1980 · 08-06-2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkrider01

The best thing to do with the chimes on this Scosche kit would be to add a resistor and quiet it down - a lot. It's just too loud. No way would I ever want to amplify it!

I agree that it would be awesome to be able to do all that, and you know, it may still be kinda possible by software upgrade. I'll send that idea on to them (muting all input channels on signal from input X and/or reduce all inputs to 50% upon signal on input X). Who knows, maybe they'll listen because it seems pretty logical for "the ultimate signal processor" to be able to do something like that.

Can't you de-gain it or set a max volume with the 3sixty.3?

CamaroFTW · 08-19-2012, 03:15 PM

OK going to try and install mine next weekend or one after that at latest. Any new ideas or thoughts on how best to do this? Putting it into the audio input seems every time you use it you have to turn the radio to AUX? Not sure I am crazy about that. I am thinking to run the onstar to the Scosche speakers. Would that work even though the speakers are high level? If there I would not have to worry about turning anything on. Also, darkrider01 do you have a schematic of your whole setup? Just curious what all wires you used and where you routed them. What distribution blocks did you use and where? Did you get the "Big 3"

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...Big-3-Kit.html

Thanks for any input!

darkrider01 · 08-19-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroFTW

OK going to try and install mine next weekend or one after that at latest. Any new ideas or thoughts on how best to do this? Putting it into the audio input seems every time you use it you have to turn the radio to AUX? Not sure I am crazy about that. I am thinking to run the onstar to the Scosche speakers. Would that work even though the speakers are high level? If there I would not have to worry about turning anything on. Also, darkrider01 do you have a schematic of your whole setup? Just curious what all wires you used and where you routed them. What distribution blocks did you use and where? Did you get the "Big 3"

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...Big-3-Kit.html

Thanks for any input!

The Scosche speaker (not plural) would probably not be a good idea for OnStar. I honestly believe that the absolute best solution for the OnStar would be to get one of those tiny amps they use for motorcycles and run the OnStar through it into the center speaker in the dash. That way it could be tuned to the proper volume to always be loud, and you could wire it to the ignition so it would be on anytime the car is on. I believe it should be a completely separate system. I have always wondered what would happen if you were rear ended on the drivers side and the amp was destroyed.......wouldn't the OnStar fail to work with no factory Boston amp to drive the speakers?

I did not do the Big 3 because the factory alternator wire appears to be around #1/0 already, and all of the equipment is really close to the battery already. When my new amp comes in, I'll probably be running all new wire to all my speakers.

As far as my system, I drew it out in AutoCAD and posted the pics below. This is really kinda prescriptive at this point. I just ordered another amp (T800-4AD) so that I can run my front active. I really, really need to stop spending so much on my audio.

Power wiring

Signal wiring

CamaroFTW · 08-19-2012, 09:07 PM

Excellent, thanks for posting the diagrams! Some questions.

1. Are you using the SWI-RC for steering wheel control? If so it says to tie in the green wire to the BCM light green #8 pin. Can you take a pic of that if you did?

2. I see you are using a separate amp for the tweeters and no cross-overs. That is because the 360 is controlling this correct? And so if I buy components with cross-overs just don't use them right?

3. Are you mounting all the speakers in stock locations or are you using tweeter pods?

4. Is that capacitor necessary if I am getting a new high end alternator? I don't see fuses in their but I assume you have those 1' from the battery? What battery did you get? I want to get a big Kinetics! OK, so I don't need to change the alternator or ground wire! One less thing.

5. Back to the Onstar thing...I have another idea...lol

. Why buy a motorcycle amp when you already have the stock amp in place? My idea is that if I do not connect the speaker wires from the HU to the Scosche then back in the trunk area at the factory amp I should only have Onstar sounds...Correct? And then if I disconnect all speaker connectors that are stock other then the center....shouldn't I get only the Onstar sounds from the center speaker? I know the center is not some true center but if I run my own front and rear speaker wires from the amps, and unplug all but the center speaker from the factory it should work right? Only problem is volume control but I am sure we can come up with something. Let me know if this sounds right and possible. (I hope this can work so I can save some $$ and get my Onstar sounds

)

darkrider01 · 08-19-2012, 10:26 PM

I answered your questions in Blue below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamaroFTW

Excellent, thanks for posting the diagrams! Some questions.

1. Are you using the SWI-RC for steering wheel control? If so it says to tie in the green wire to the BCM light green #8 pin. Can you take a pic of that if you did?
No. The Pioneer I have works fine using just the Scosche kit steering wheel controls. I didn't need the SWI-RC adapter.

2. I see you are using a separate amp for the tweeters and no cross-overs. That is because the 360 is controlling this correct? And so if I buy components with cross-overs just don't use them right?
Yes and Maybe. I started out using the passive crossovers, but now I decided to "go active" and let the 3Sixty.3 take care of the crossover. With passives, you are tied down to a single crossover type. The 3 Sixty has 6 different crossover types. If you are not going to have an amp channel for each speaker, then it would probably be best to use the passive crossovers and set the 3Sixty.3 to "all pass". It's really a matter of preference, but that's how I would do it.

3. Are you mounting all the speakers in stock locations or are you using tweeter pods?
I mounted my tweeters in the stock location. They are a little off-axis, but so far so good. Pods would make them much better, but this is one instance where I prefer ascetics to perfect imaging. I'm sure I can get the imaging good enough for me without using pods.

4. Is that capacitor necessary if I am getting a new high end alternator? I don't see fuses in their but I assume you have those 1' from the battery? What battery did you get? I want to get a big Kinetics! OK, so I don't need to change the alternator or ground wire! One less thing.
If you are planning on an upgraded alternator, you don't need a cap. Also, you're much better off adding a second battery than a cap.
As far as overcurrent protection, I'm not using any fuses.

I'm using circuit breakers....

I have a 180A between the battery and dist block, and a 100A between the Dist Block and my T1000-1bdCP.
As far as battery, I'm actually using the stock battery myself. I will most probably be changing that pretty soon as I'd like a big Kinetic myself. I think if I ask for to much more though, my wife is going to shoot me. I'm worried that the T800-4AD I just ordered is going to push my stock alternator over the edge. I may yet end up with a 250A alternator and/or 2 batteries.

5. Back to the Onstar thing...I have another idea...lol

. Why buy a motorcycle amp when you already have the stock amp in place? My idea is that if I do not connect the speaker wires from the HU to the Scosche then back in the trunk area at the factory amp I should only have Onstar sounds...Correct? And then if I disconnect all speaker connectors that are stock other then the center....shouldn't I get only the Onstar sounds from the center speaker? I know the center is not some true center but if I run my own front and rear speaker wires from the amps, and unplug all but the center speaker from the factory it should work right? Only problem is volume control but I am sure we can come up with something. Let me know if this sounds right and possible. (I hope this can work so I can save some $$ and get my Onstar sounds

)
Hmm.....yeah. That should work. You could add something like this to turn it down if it is too loud, but if it is too low.......then you'd need that separate amp like I was talking about. The CAMOSM module may have gain controls on it (like the Metra kit) so you may be able to adjust gain there. Looks like you get to do some experimentation yourself.

CamaroFTW · 08-26-2012, 04:22 PM

Hey Darkrider01 if you have a few minutes can you look at my install parts list and see if I have everything I
need and if the parts are all correct and if I ordered either enough or too much of any wires or cables?
I will have very similar setup to what you have above except that I will have 2 x 12" RE Audio 1000 W subs and
each will have its own Rockford 1000 Watt amp like the one you have. Also my 4-channel will be the TD 1000 instead of the
TD800 you have. Also a few questions:

1. I am unsure of proper way to Y out the output from the 360 to the 2 sub amps?? Do I use 2 x RCA Male to 2 females
and then run the 2 RCA to the 2 subs? I am confused because all the Y's have red and black and I am really splitting
left and right. So just ignore that? Or can I run to one sub amp and then use the pass-through to the second sub amp?
Can you do this and use the switches on then to share the incoming signal??

2. Do I need a better battery post? I dont thing so with the ring posts but figure I would ask.

3. You have no circuit breakers to the 2 and 4 channel amps. Unnecessary?

4. The blue remote amp wire...do I need to run a wire to each amp or can this also be daisey chained from 1?

5. Where the heck you putting everything! lol. Do you have a diagram of that? I was thinking of mounting on a board
in the trunk and then have a windowed custom box build around all this. What are you doing?

Here is list:

Thanks in advance!

08-02-2012, 08:05 PM	#31
darkrider01 Aural Assault Vehicle Drives: 2010 IBM 2SS/RS, 2015 Sierra Denali Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 792	Well, I forgot to do it when I had my radio out last weekend (was having issues with other wiring and with my 3Sixty.3 install), but I said I was going to check it so I'm going to take it out again this weekend and find out. Sorry that it's taking so long but it seems like it's either 100+ degrees or I have to work. I'll get to it this weekend. __________________ My amplifier pop/click/thump solution thread Power Mods * K&N Typhoon CAI, Flowmaster American Thunder cat-back exhaust, Hurst Short Throw Shifter Exterior Mods * Black Phantom Grille * 22" T.I.S. 537MS wheels w/ Nitto INVO rubber * OEM body kit Suspension Mods * BC Racing Coilovers * Lakewood Strut Tower Brace Audio Mods * Stinger SPP 2250 Battery * Mosconi 6to8v8 w/ RCD * Pioneer AVH-X7500BT * Scosche Dash Kit * 2 - Mosconi AS200.4 * 2 - JL Audio 13W6v2 * Focal 165KRX2 Power (active) * Mosconi Gladen One 240.2 * Rockford Fosgate Power T1692

08-05-2012, 10:54 PM	#33
darkrider01 Aural Assault Vehicle Drives: 2010 IBM 2SS/RS, 2015 Sierra Denali Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 792	Ok. I tested everything quite thoroughly today with my radio and 3Sixty.3. The Good Stuff: The signal coming from the Telematics Communication Interface Module (TCIM) or Onstar module is a low level signal. I spliced a RCA into the DK Blue and Lt blu/blk wires and started by connecting it to the left AV input of my radio. It looks like (at least in the case of my Pioneer) that the baseline volume of the OnStar is about half that of the radio volume. So now I ran an RCA cable to the 3Sixty.3 and used a Y-Adapter to connect the OnStar wire to the Front Left 2 and Front Right 2 inputs of my 3Sixty.3. I then ran the setup again and activated the Front Left 2 and Front Right 2 inputs and then summed them with the front right 1 and front left 1 outputs. It works pretty awesome this way, but there are 2 caveats I discovered (see below). The 3Sixty.3 has a step during setup that will allow you to adjust input levels of each input channel. For the best results, you may want to adjust the rest of your system levels down a little and boost the OnStar volume a bit, but it's really up to the end user. I would personally leave it where it is though as I found it loud enough to hear clearly at my normal listening volume. The maybe Bad Stuff: Since the Onstar volume does not come through the head unit, when you turn your head unit volume up loud, you may drown out the OnStar. The Onstar volume stays at a single level no matter what you do. The only way around this would be to use the Master Volume control feature of the 3Sixty.3 to control system volume. That would allow you to mute the radio and then adjust the Onstar volume as high as you like. Just don't forget to turn it back down before you un-mute your radio. If you hit your OnStar button to make a call to OnStar, and you forget to mute your radio and then hit the "mute" button your steering wheel, it will hang up the call. I found it funny that that part of the steering wheel controls still works with the TCIM OnStar. If you decide to use the BlueTooth module from the 3Sixty.3, you will not hear the Onstar as it would only come through the "Main" inputs. Same with Auxiliary and Optical inputs. Did I miss anything? If so, ask away. I experimented for an hour or two, so there is a chance I tried something else that I'm not thinking of right now. In the end I just left the RCA plugged into my AV input on my radio, so I can use OnStar that way if I ever wanted. __________________ My amplifier pop/click/thump solution thread Power Mods * K&N Typhoon CAI, Flowmaster American Thunder cat-back exhaust, Hurst Short Throw Shifter Exterior Mods * Black Phantom Grille * 22" T.I.S. 537MS wheels w/ Nitto INVO rubber * OEM body kit Suspension Mods * BC Racing Coilovers * Lakewood Strut Tower Brace Audio Mods * Stinger SPP 2250 Battery * Mosconi 6to8v8 w/ RCD * Pioneer AVH-X7500BT * Scosche Dash Kit * 2 - Mosconi AS200.4 * 2 - JL Audio 13W6v2 * Focal 165KRX2 Power (active) * Mosconi Gladen One 240.2 * Rockford Fosgate Power T1692

07-25-2012, 09:27 AM	#29
CamaroFTW Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 1,284	OK Rock On Professor! Let me know what you find out. I really appreciate it.

08-02-2012, 06:57 PM	#30
CamaroFTW Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 1,284	Just checking in again darkrider01? Words of wisdom?

08-02-2012, 08:37 PM	#32
CamaroFTW Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 1,284	No apologies necessary but I would love to hear what you discover so I can plan my route. Mostly concerned with Onstar voice..rest is pretty planned out. Thanks darkrider01!

08-05-2012, 11:06 PM	#34
jeepguy_1980 Drives: 2010 Camaro 1SS Join Date: May 2010 Location: Newport News Posts: 1,310 View My Garage	That's good news and pretty much what I expected. I really think that RF could take the 3Sixty.3 one step further, without much effort. If they setup the firmware to allow for better factory integration, i.e. chimes, OnStar, back up sensors, etc... and allowed the user to define which inputs are factory noises, which channels to route those inputs to, and how to handle the radio volume (mute, lower, leave alone), the 3Sixty.3 would be that much better and that much more popular. I realize the level of perfection I/we want, pertaining to OEM integration, is probably greater than what other people want and are willing to pay for and research (in terms of which wires to cut/route). But still, I would like to see it. I also think that you can do the same thing with the speaker in your scosche dash kit. That will be even smoother, since the OEM chimes don't mute the radio anyways.

08-06-2012, 02:09 AM	#36
CamaroFTW Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 1,284	darkrider01...THANKS for all the news. I got home late and so will reread this all tomorrow!

08-19-2012, 03:15 PM	#38
CamaroFTW Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 1,284	OK going to try and install mine next weekend or one after that at latest. Any new ideas or thoughts on how best to do this? Putting it into the audio input seems every time you use it you have to turn the radio to AUX? Not sure I am crazy about that. I am thinking to run the onstar to the Scosche speakers. Would that work even though the speakers are high level? If there I would not have to worry about turning anything on. Also, darkrider01 do you have a schematic of your whole setup? Just curious what all wires you used and where you routed them. What distribution blocks did you use and where? Did you get the "Big 3" http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...Big-3-Kit.html Thanks for any input!

08-19-2012, 09:07 PM	#40
CamaroFTW Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 1,284	Excellent, thanks for posting the diagrams! Some questions. 1. Are you using the SWI-RC for steering wheel control? If so it says to tie in the green wire to the BCM light green #8 pin. Can you take a pic of that if you did? 2. I see you are using a separate amp for the tweeters and no cross-overs. That is because the 360 is controlling this correct? And so if I buy components with cross-overs just don't use them right? 3. Are you mounting all the speakers in stock locations or are you using tweeter pods? 4. Is that capacitor necessary if I am getting a new high end alternator? I don't see fuses in their but I assume you have those 1' from the battery? What battery did you get? I want to get a big Kinetics! OK, so I don't need to change the alternator or ground wire! One less thing. 5. Back to the Onstar thing...I have another idea...lol . Why buy a motorcycle amp when you already have the stock amp in place? My idea is that if I do not connect the speaker wires from the HU to the Scosche then back in the trunk area at the factory amp I should only have Onstar sounds...Correct? And then if I disconnect all speaker connectors that are stock other then the center....shouldn't I get only the Onstar sounds from the center speaker? I know the center is not some true center but if I run my own front and rear speaker wires from the amps, and unplug all but the center speaker from the factory it should work right? Only problem is volume control but I am sure we can come up with something. Let me know if this sounds right and possible. (I hope this can work so I can save some $$ and get my Onstar sounds )

08-26-2012, 04:22 PM	#42
CamaroFTW Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS-Rally Yellow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 1,284	Hey Darkrider01 if you have a few minutes can you look at my install parts list and see if I have everything I need and if the parts are all correct and if I ordered either enough or too much of any wires or cables? I will have very similar setup to what you have above except that I will have 2 x 12" RE Audio 1000 W subs and each will have its own Rockford 1000 Watt amp like the one you have. Also my 4-channel will be the TD 1000 instead of the TD800 you have. Also a few questions: 1. I am unsure of proper way to Y out the output from the 360 to the 2 sub amps?? Do I use 2 x RCA Male to 2 females and then run the 2 RCA to the 2 subs? I am confused because all the Y's have red and black and I am really splitting left and right. So just ignore that? Or can I run to one sub amp and then use the pass-through to the second sub amp? Can you do this and use the switches on then to share the incoming signal?? 2. Do I need a better battery post? I dont thing so with the ring posts but figure I would ask. 3. You have no circuit breakers to the 2 and 4 channel amps. Unnecessary? 4. The blue remote amp wire...do I need to run a wire to each amp or can this also be daisey chained from 1? 5. Where the heck you putting everything! lol. Do you have a diagram of that? I was thinking of mounting on a board in the trunk and then have a windowed custom box build around all this. What are you doing? Here is list: Thanks in advance!