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Old 10-10-2011, 10:21 AM   #43
JANNETTYRACING
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryne @ CMS View Post
i have respect for ted, but i am sorry i would not run a factory plug at 800 rwhp, i wouldnt run a tr6 at 800rwhp... a cts-v/zr1 plug are "essentially' the same heat range as a tr6.. they are simply too "hot" for that much cylinder pressure... i am not going to argue that they may drive around nicer, but i will almost certainly tell you at WOT those cylinders arent as happy.... you say " you will not out smart a gm engineer", you are a 100% right, but those are 500-650 flywheel hp cars, not 800rwhp cars... you may have them living at that power level with those plugs, but you truly cant tell people that is good recommendation... you and any other tuner knows at certain power levels there are certain sacrifices that most be dealt with, i think one should be having to run a none gm plug, that "might" not run quite as smooth...
that all being said, i will be honest.. you kind of opened my eyes to reusing the factory plugs, and i think i am going to start running zr1 plugs in cars sub 700 rwhp.... above that it will likely get a tr7ix or bp7efs, or colder..
One of the Big Misconceptions about Plugs is that they control cylinder temps.

The Tune Up controls Cylinder Temps NOT the PLUG.

The Plug Heat Range is the ability for the plug to keep itself clean.

If your Cylinder temps are too high you need to look at your tune up not switch to a colder plug.

The ZR1 Plugs will carry you to 1000 rwhp and beyond if the tune up is right.

I am Glad I was able to help.

Ted.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:26 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed View Post
I think this issue people have with TR6's (PT# 4177) is related to them being gapped correctly. The TR6 is a .052 gap plug out the box. Prior to 2005, all GM LSx motors used a plug with a .055 gap. In 2005 with the LS2, they switched the GAP factory size to .040. Because of that, if you take a TR6 plug which has a .052 GAP out the box, and just throw it in a 2005 and newer LSx motor without regapping to .040 (which I suspect a lot of people do), you will have the idle and drivability issues described.

As for the "because GM made it, it must be better" idea...remember..this is the same GM that takes a Borla exhaust, slaps their GM Performance Parts name on it, and sells it for twice the price. AC Delco does not make the majority of their parts. Instead they buy it from other places and slap their name on it. From what I have found in the past, many, if not all GM iridium plugs are made by NGK. If you do a google search you will find some info on this. Most people do buy the cheap TR-6's which are copper, PT# 4177, however they are also available in iridium (PT#3689) and Laser long life iridium (PT# 4477) both which cost about the same or less than the AC Delco ones. They would still need to be regapped to proper size..I will do some research this week to find the PT# for correct gapped ones. The only difference between a copper and irridium plug most end users would see is price, and how long they last. GM wants these cars to go forever without a tune up now, so they put the expensive iridiums's in from the factory.

Also if you want stock heat range NGK iridiums, they are PT#7397, and come properly gapped to .040. Also, always check plugs before installing to make sure they did not get messed up in transit.


All that being said, the real answer is likely to find the cross reference for the AC Delco plug to the NGK Iridium plug, as it is likely the same plug rebanded, and the NGK will be cheaper. I will do this tomorrow if I have time.
I have tried all gaps from 035-055 with TR6 to NO AVAIL.

I don't think you guys Don't realize how much tuning I do, and how much experience I have to Share.

Ted.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
One of the Big Misconceptions about Plugs is that they control cylinder temps.

The Tune Up controls Cylinder Temps NOT the PLUG.

The Plug Heat Range is the ability for the plug to keep itself clean.

If your Cylinder temps are too high you need to look at your tune up not switch to a colder plug.

The ZR1 Plugs will carry you to 1000 rwhp and beyond if the tune up is right.

I am Glad I was able to help.

Ted.
yes your right , the tune up can allow you to run hotter plug, i 100% agree... but we are in the performance game, with colder plug the tune can be more optimzed make more power with less boost, less cylinder pressure.... but i am sorry i do not agree, as well as most very very good tuners wont as well, with running a stock zr1 plug at 1000rwhp good tune or not..
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryne @ CMS View Post
yes your right , the tune up can allow you to run hotter plug, i 100% agree... but we are in the performance game, with colder plug the tune can be more optimzed make more power with less boost, less cylinder pressure.... but i am sorry i do not agree, as well as most very very good tuners wont as well, with running a stock zr1 plug at 1000rwhp good tune or not..
Your entitled to your Opinion.

But don't knock it until you try it.

Ted.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:24 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Your entitled to your Opinion.

But don't knock it until you try it.

Ted.
yes i do understand... but i am not going to try something on a customers motor, i am going to stick to proven knowledge and theory i know... wish you the best of luck...

ps i got a 2010 camaro in here with a maggie and your cam, i like cam setup, made very good power..
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:35 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryne @ CMS View Post
yes i do understand... but i am not going to try something on a customers motor, i am going to stick to proven knowledge and theory i know... wish you the best of luck...

ps i got a 2010 camaro in here with a maggie and your cam, i like cam setup, made very good power..
Good Deal, give me a call we will Chat.

Ted.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:40 PM   #49
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Good Deal, give me a call we will Chat.

Ted.
will do!
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:58 PM   #50
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Here is something else for you to chew on with this debate.

The ZR1 spark plug (PN 12571165), designed for GM's 10 psi supercharged 9.1:1 compression 6.2L is also used in the factory LS7...a 7.0L 11:1 NA engine.

Effective compression and cylinder temps are not going to be exactly the same between those two engines.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:01 PM   #51
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Here is something else for you to chew on with this debate.

The ZR1 spark plug (PN 12571165), designed for GM's 10 psi supercharged 9.1:1 compression 6.2L is also used in the factory LS7...a 7.0L 11:1 NA engine.

Effective compression and cylinder temps are not going to be exactly the same between those two engines.
Exactly
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:23 PM   #52
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I'm running NGK G's. Opened the gap up to a bit over .070. Does not miss a beat. Of course I also wired in a 18 Volt Mini VIP. I don't think the stock plugs are meant to be open that large. Can't remember if I tried it with the stock plugs. I suppose I could swap and see if there is a difference.
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Old 10-21-2011, 09:49 PM   #53
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i have the zr1 plugs but still trying to decide if i should put them in.
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:20 PM   #54
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i have the zr1 plugs but still trying to decide if i should put them in.
Have had them in my car now for about two weeks. The idle is smother and the driveablity is very nice. Took out some NGK's with about 1000 miles on them and they were trashed. A bid tune did not help them either.

So far so good. Am going to give them a 1000 miles, pull them and see how they look.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. If its spellllled wrong, deal with it.
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:42 AM   #55
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NGK FTW!!
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Old 10-24-2011, 08:59 AM   #56
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NGK FTW!!
I am interested in your Reasons Why or how you have come to this conclusion.

Or are you just a fan in the stands rooting for your Home team?
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