More Power without Boost - Results are In !!

[Arch-City]

I have been looking to get more power and better performance from my cammed 2015 1LE, but I want this N/A without stroking the motor. I had plans to go with a LLSR setup, but after talking to a VERY proven LS performance shop, this is what we have decided to do. Please let me know your thoughts and any guesses on Power #'s are always welcome.

New LS7 Style Heads with LS3 valve sizes that flow around 380 and 270 cfm @ .650 and 11.7 compression
1.8 ls7 rockers
Johnson Lifters
Custom Cam Grind 23x / 25x with .640's / .630's lift
E-85 Flex Fuel Sensor
Ported LS7 intake manifold

My car should be heading to their shop in a week or so, I am hoping to see 525+ rwhp when finished, Any Thoughts?

[Clarkstar]

How will they raise compression? Mill the heads or new pistons?

I ask because that's a big cam...without reliefs in the pistons, if you mill the heads, I'd think they would hit the valves....???

[Arch-City]

These are ls7 style heads with 12 degree valve angle instead of 15 degrees that the LS3 heads have. So yes milling the heads to increase compression and the valve angle will allow for the bigger cam.

[Clarkstar]

Originally Posted by Arch-City

These are ls7 style heads with 12 degree valve angle instead of 15 degrees that the LS3 heads have. So yes milling the heads to increase compression and the valve angle will allow for the bigger cam.

Thanks for clearing that up... learned something new today!

[christianchevell]

First of all don't mill the heads that's stupid and your doing 1.8 ratio ls7 style rockers which will raise the lift of the cam you have specked out to most likely not work and PTV interference with the stock pistons....BTW

so lets say you add the ratio change to the cam specs and try to figure.... your showing lots of duration way lots as in not very street friendly....also BTW

so you need to look at the lift at the lobe.... SO your going to add about .030 on top of the specs you have.....You see ls7 run a higher rev limit due to the rockers ratio multiplying a lower lift cam to make it have easier springs not hard as nails race springs you have to change out more often...

SO to me you don't sound well thought out unless your actually going with a lower lift cam because your numbers .640 and .630 lift that puts you at the .670 and .660 ball park using springs that are most likely .700 springs and stiff and need changed out even more than the 25k of the most popular aftermarket cams for the ls3.....

Milling the heads decreases the clearance, butterfly cutting the pistons gives clearance and decreases slightly compression and BTW compression does not make that much power for a small bump.

MY thoughts.....you don't know WTF your doing.....and them ..... and what ever you do you better have the thing clayed to make sure you have PTV clearance....

[Punisher_ATX]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

First of all don't mill the heads that's stupid and your doing 1.8 ratio ls7 style rockers which will raise the lift of the cam you have specked out to most likely not work and PTV interference with the stock pistons....BTW

so lets say you add the ratio change to the cam specs and try to figure.... your showing lots of duration way lots as in not very street friendly....also BTW

so you need to look at the lift at the lobe.... SO your going to add about .030 on top of the specs you have.....You see ls7 run a higher rev limit due to the rockers ratio multiplying a lower lift cam to make it have easier springs not hard as nails race springs you have to change out more often...

SO to me you don't sound well thought out unless your actually going with a lower lift cam because your numbers .640 and .630 lift that puts you at the .670 and .660 ball park using springs that are most likely .700 springs and stiff and need changed out even more than the 25k of the most popular aftermarket cams for the ls3.....

Milling the heads decreases the clearance, butterfly cutting the pistons gives clearance and decreases slightly compression and BTW compression does not make that much power for a small bump.

MY thoughts.....you don't know WTF your doing.....and them ..... and what ever you do you better have the thing clayed to make sure you have PTV clearance....

There was a little bit of wrong information here. Lift has nothing to do with the PTV clearance. Duration does. Also remember aftermarket heads have a different valve angle so they have even more PTV clearance. I myself run a 238/248 .650/.640 LLSR cam in my stock heads stock pistons ls3 and turn it 7500 regularly and have ZERO issues. valvetrain is actually more stable and controlled than with my mild hydraulic cam.

[Arch-City]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

First of all don't mill the heads that's stupid and your doing 1.8 ratio ls7 style rockers which will raise the lift of the cam you have specked out to most likely not work and PTV interference with the stock pistons....BTW

so lets say you add the ratio change to the cam specs and try to figure.... your showing lots of duration way lots as in not very street friendly....also BTW

so you need to look at the lift at the lobe.... SO your going to add about .030 on top of the specs you have.....You see ls7 run a higher rev limit due to the rockers ratio multiplying a lower lift cam to make it have easier springs not hard as nails race springs you have to change out more often...

SO to me you don't sound well thought out unless your actually going with a lower lift cam because your numbers .640 and .630 lift that puts you at the .670 and .660 ball park using springs that are most likely .700 springs and stiff and need changed out even more than the 25k of the most popular aftermarket cams for the ls3.....

Milling the heads decreases the clearance, butterfly cutting the pistons gives clearance and decreases slightly compression and BTW compression does not make that much power for a small bump.

MY thoughts.....you don't know WTF your doing.....and them ..... and what ever you do you better have the thing clayed to make sure you have PTV clearance....

Well, thank God we have you to set us all straight on this forum. I have seen many of your post here and truthfully it's idiots like yourself that keep me from frequenting this forum.

Do you really think I would post that I am using 1.8 rockers and then post the lift in 1.7 specs... Really !!! I even tried to explain how this could work clearance wise, with the different valve angle before your post and you still came to such as stupid conclusion. I sure hope next time you read the entire post, so you add something of substance to the conversation.

Oh, and BTW when I do release who is doing the build I think most members of this forum would disagree with you saying they don't know WTF they are doing.

This build may or may not produce the desired results but, at least they keep pushing limits trying to get more power from a stock bore LS3. Anyone can get more power by boring and stroking a motor, or throwing a power adder on it, but it takes a lot of Hard Work, Ingenuity, and Trial and Error to keep getting more from a stock bore.

I know I brought some of this on myself by asking for members thoughts on this build, when I should have asked for only the intelligent members thoughts on this....

[frankwjr]

whew! glad I was only going to ask if the plan was to DD the car...

and IMHO you are spending a SH!T load of $$$ for...speaking points? I hear you loud and clear about N/A but you really have 2 choices...stroke(or in my case I want to de-stroke but that's another) or increase the RPM's(yeah!)..

and are you talkin about the Mast small bore LS7 heads? hahah that's what Mike(c chevelle) wants to do too! this is too funny...

good luck OP, every body knock back some egg nog(yech!) and have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!

[Bo White]

Lol

[christianchevell]

Well congratulations on being able to quote your actual lift in terms where the ratio 1.7 WAS NOT AS IN MOST CAMS FIGURES ON HERE, so your actual lift on your cam which is much more conservative than what you posted because you want to inflate the ego some and impress others. INSTEAD OF BEING PROUD YOU COULD USE A LOWER LIFT CAM AND THE 1.8 ROCKERS A GREAT FEATURE FOR LONGEVITY OF VALVETRAIN YOU LEFT IT OUT OF THE CONVERSATION.

I would not want novices thinking they can change ratios and not effect things like PTV which it does so some of us have been on here for years you Snark Arch city hope you gain 5 hp with your big heads for stock cubes....ROFL Calling names to those who do understand may your engine be cursed..............AND APPARENTLY TO YOU ANYONE CAN MAKE MORE POWER BORING AND STROKING ETC A ENGINE BUT IT TAKES A FIGGIN GENIUS TO DO IT TO THE STOCK CUBES WTF DO YOU THINK I DID TO MY LAST ENGINE BRAINIAC.

YOUR HERE 21 POSTS AND WE ARE SUPPOSED TO KNOW YOU REALLY STUDIED UP AND DID YOUR HOME WORK LIKE YOU HAVE BEEN HERE FOREVER HELPING PEOPLE. MAY YOUR CAMARO GO SOUTH AND YOUR INTEREST PETER WHEN YOU THOW MONEY VAINLY AT ENGINE TROUBLE AFTER ENGINE TROUBLE A CURSE ON YOU, YOU FRIGGIN BOZO.

I HAVE SEEN LOTS OF PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS LOTS OF DISASTERS....so MAYBE SINCE YOU ONLY WANT INTELLEGENT MEMBERS TO TALK TO YOU, YOU SHOULD STARE IN THE MIRROR AND TALK TO YOURSELF SINCE YOUR THE ONLY ONE WHO REALLY KNOWS WHATS GOING ON WITH YOUR ENGINE. LIKE PUTTING MEGA FLOW HEADS ON A STOCK CUBE MILLING IT DOWN TO GET THAT 5 HP FROM THE COMPRESSION BOOST WITH CLOSER "ptv" OF COURSE LOWERING THE DECK...OH NO IT DOES NOT AFFECT PTV IF THERES MORE LIFT OF THE CAM..lol

IT ONLY MATTERS EVERY NANO SECOND WHERE THE VALVE AND ITS OPENING OCCURS AND HOW FAR THE VALVE SWINGS OPEN IN COMPARISON TO THE TOP OF THE PISTON....

ANYWAY HAVING BEEN BLESSEES TO HAVE HELPED A LOT OF PEOPLE ON HERE OVER TIME I AM SUPPOSED TO TAKE A HIT ON THE CHIN FROM ASSUMING YOU WERE WANTING ADVICE AND IGNORANT, NOW OPINIONS THOUGH THEY ARE LIKE AHOLES I KNOW WORK WITH AHOLES YOUR NO DIFFERENT ....

SO I GIVE YOU THE CURSE OF THE OLD MOTORHEAD, MAY YOUR GRANADA EAT ITS MOTOR, YOUR YUGO NO GO, YOUR VEHICLE BE CURSED BY GYPSY PISS AND VINEGAR YOUR JUST PISSED YOU CANT STROKE IT.......LOL WISH I HAD YOUR HEADS FOR MY STROKER YUP.... ROFL LOL YES IT IS FUNNY BO......LOL

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL FROM THIS OLD DISABLED INFANTRY VET CARPENTER AT THE STATE PEN....WORKING WITH AHOLES TO KEEP AMERICA SAFE SO WE CAN BE GREAT AGAIN.....SO THE STUPID CHRISTMAS CAMARO CURSE OF THE YUGO TO HE WHO INSULTS ANOTHER SO MUCH AND IS A LURKER MAY KARMA COME YOUR WAY.....BUGGITY BUGGITY BOO.... ROFL ROFL

[christianchevell]

AND PUNISHER LIFT AND DURATION BOTH MATTER.....BANK ON IT, ITS ALOT IN CLEARANCES TO WHERE X IS AT Y, AND IF X IS THAT MUCH CLOSER TO THE PISTON BECAUSE ITS HIGHER LIFT .....IT MATTERS ......SOME FLYCUT FOR BOTH..OR DISH OR ETC ETC.....MERRY XMAS OF COURSE I KNOW OUT THERE ARE INCREDIBLE THINGS LIKE .800 LIFT CAMS ETC...LOL MASSIVE LSX TUNNEL RAMMED TWIN TURBOS ETC ETC NOT THAT I CAN AFFORD THEM RIGHT NOW , JUST TOOK ON THE 16 YR OLD GRANDDAUGHTER TO RAISE. SIGH..... BANKRUPTED FROM KIDS COLLEGE ALREADY I AM THAT STAND UP GUY WITH MY VETERAN WIFE..... FAMILY IS WHAT REALLY MATTERS. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU TOO.....

IMAGINE IF I HAD GIVEN ADVICE TO SOMEONE WHO DID THINK THEY COULD USE SAY SPRINGS FOR ONE LIFT CAM AND THEN ADD ROCKERS AND EVERYTHIING WOULD BE JUST FINE BECAUSE JOE BLOW DID IT ONLINE IN A THREAD AND THATS ALL HE COULD GARNER NOT STUDYING ANYTHING BUT WHAT THEY GET ON A FORUM,;

WHY HECK MAYBE THEN SINCE LIFT DOES NOT AFFECT A CLEARANCE LIKE PTV IF YOU CHANGE THE VALVE ANGLE A LITTLE EVEN WITH SAY THE STOCK FLAT TOP PISTON: WHY FLYCUT DISHED ETC PISTONS ? WHY NOT JUST GET THE TWISTED WEDGE ETC FOR A LS3 AND A .750 LIFT CAM.....WITH ITS DIFFERENT ANGLE AND THAT GREAT LIFT IT WOULD MAKE SO MUCH POWER.....SEE WHERE I AM GOING PEOPLE OVER TIME WILL TRY TO LEARN AND GREY AREAS THERE ARE MANY IN BUILDING ENGINES........AND YUP LLSR NICE BUT NOT INTO RELASHING AND NOISEY ENOUGH..LOL

CLAY THE ENGINE ITS WHAT MOST GOOD PLACES DO IF ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT CLEARANCES IMO ..... LIFT AND DURATION MATTER AND THEIR RELATION TO EACH OTHER WITH THE VALVE TIMING EVENTS INTAKE AND EXHAUST. AND RATIOS MATTER AND THE SPRINGS AND EVERYTHING MATTERS WHEN TELLING OTHERS INFO ON HERE. AND I THINK CRAPPERNECK SHOULD GO TO CANADA AND PLAY BALL THERE....LOL FRIGGIN LURKERS...LOL

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...+pic&FORM=IGRE

AND YES MILLING THEIR HEADS DECREASES PTV.... AND MILLING IS SOMETHING BEST DONE TO USED HEADS TO REMOVE IMPERFECTIONS ESPECIALLY ALUMINUM THAT CAN PIT FROM ANTIFREEZES CAUSTIC NATURE AND TO CLEAN IT UP FOR REUSE...YOU ONLY HAVE SO MUCH DECK TO REUSE IN THE FUTURE FOR BUILDS THEN ITS TRASH.... BUT SOME PEOPLE WANT TO MILL NEW HEADS AND HAVE MONEY THEY CAN THROW AWAY RATHER THAN SAY A DIFFERENT HEAD GASKET.....AND DONT CARE IF THEIR OCTANE RATING FOR THEIR COMPRESSION IS TOO HIGH TO BURN PUMP GAS AND BE DAILY FRIENDLY...HECK THEY DO CONVERSIONS TO CORN AND DONT EVEN BLOW IT OR SPRAY IT OR ANYTHGIN TO TAKE ADVANTAGE FO THE COOLING FORM THE CORN...LOL

ITS IN WHAT EVER FLOATS YOUR BOAT BUT THEIR ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT SPECTRUMS I JUST HOPE PEOPLE DO LOTS OF HOME WORK AND STUDY UP ON THEIR OWN BUILDS AND SHARE INFO TO HELP OTHERS BECAUSE NOTHIGN WORSE THAN SEEING ANOTHER BLOW UP ENGINE OR WRECK CAMARO PIC

LOL; ANYWAY SOME MUSTANG WITH A SCOOP ;NEWER ONE WANTED TO PLAY YESTERDAY, AND THEN DECIDED TO BACK OFF WITH A BRAND NEW ONE RIGHT THERE ALSO , V-8S ,ALSO JUST DRIVNG HOME FROM DOWNTOWN, FUNNY HOW SOMEONE WILL COME UP ON YOUR ASS LIKE THAT; THEN YOU HAVE TO SHOW THEM UP REPEATEDLY UNTIL THEY SULK OFF.....MUSTANGERS......LOL

http://www.racingheadservice.com/rhs...learance-guide

MOST ON HERE WILL JUST DO CAMS AND BOLTONS WITH COMMON STUFF..THOSE WHO DO MORE RADICAL BUILDS DO NEED TO BE MORE INFORMATIVE IN THEIR POSTS IF OTHERS ARE EVER TO FOLLOW IN THEIR FOOTSTEPS AS PEOPLE COME AND GO.......GUESS MY CRUSTY OLD ASS IS THE ONLY ONE STILL AROUND THEN SOMETIMES ANOTHER OLD TIMER WILL POPS UP..... BUT THIS IS FAR FAR FROM THE HAY DAY OF THIS SITE......

JUST A MORING RANT.... OH BUT LISTEN TO THE NEW GUY...HES A LURKER.... NOT THAT HE TAUGHT ANYONE ANYTHING AT LEAST SOMEONE COULD LEARN ITS ABOUT .030 DIFFERENCE FR0M THE 1.7 ROCKER TO THE 1.8 AND THE AVERAGE OF A SPRINGS LIFE IF TREATED NICE TO HAVE GOOD SPRING PRESSURES FOR RACING ETC STILL IN THE SPRING....THATS GETTING TIRED, YOU KNOW LOTS OF PEOPLE COME FROM OLD SCHOOL NO CHANGING OUT THE SPRINGS EVER SCHOOL OF SBC/BBC/MOPAR OR /FORD OLD SCHOOL FLAT TAPPET IF THEY HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE IN BUILDING THIER OWN MOTORS.....WITH MUCH LESS LIFT AND MILDER SPRINGS...AT LEAST THEY COULD LEARN THAT FROM MY COUPLE COMMENTS

MY THOUGHTS..525 HP EASY BUT YOUR INCREASING THINGS SO MUCH WITH OUT THE BASE AND THROWING MONEY AT THE WALL TO SEE WHAT STICKS, THE CAM SURE IT WILL MAKE POWER THE HEADS NOT SO MUCH A NEAD FOR THE FLOW THEY ARE CAPABLE OF AS GMS LS3 HEADS ARE GREAT ALREADY, AND E-85 COULD BE FUN TO PLAY WITH...... BUT THEN THERES THOSE WHO WANT TO DAILY AND NOT THROW THE MONEY AT SOMETHING THAT MAY NOT BENEFIT ITS WITH THE PART OF THE ENGINES POWER BAND ITS USED FOR BLINDLY THROWING PARTS AT IT THEN BEING SURPRISED AT THE RESULTS......

HP MAKES NICE NUMBERS, TORQUE WINS RACES............LARGER FLOW IS NEEDED BY MORE RADICAL BUILDS BUT IF NOT REQUIRED PRETTY MUCH USELESS EXCEPT FOR FUTURE POTENTIAL.

MY THOUGHTS CAN RAMBLE ON FOREVER....lol lol lol LOL LOL ROFL.............AND THE CURSE OF THE YUGO........ROFL STFU FNG

[ecreps]

Originally Posted by Arch-City

I have been looking to get more power and better performance from my cammed 2015 1LE, but I want this N/A without stroking the motor. I had plans to go with a LLSR setup, but after talking to a VERY proven LS performance shop, this is what we have decided to do. Please let me know your thoughts and any guesses on Power #'s are always welcome.

New LS7 Style Heads with LS3 valve sizes that flow around 380 and 270 cfm @ .650 and 11.7 compression
1.8 ls7 rockers
Johnson Lifters
Custom Cam Grind 23x / 25x with .640's / .630's lift
E-85 Flex Fuel Sensor
Ported LS7 intake manifold

My car should be heading to their shop in a week or so, I am hoping to see 525+ rwhp when finished, Any Thoughts?

I would think you'd be somewhere between 525 and 550whp.

How high are you planning to spin the stock bottom end?

I can't think you're going to see peak HP under 7K. Are you planning to shift this in the 7500-7800 range? Not sure what LSA your cam is setup on; so this is kind of just assumning.

If you're going to run E85 Why not more compression? Still going to run 93 sometimes? If it's E85 all the time I would think somewhere in the 12.5:1 or 13:1 range would make sense?

Post back results; I'd be interested to see how it turns out.

[christianchevell]

NO I TAKE CARE OF THE MOTOR POOL AT WORK ALSO I AM FORMER==MECHANIZED,
AND STRAIGHT LEG, RESPECTED USUALLY BY ALL AND KNOWN TO SAY MURR......AND TOO MUCH TIME ON MY HANDS THIS MORNING, REALLY IF HE WANTS ADVICE HE COULD READ ALL MY RCOMMENDATIONS TO OTEHRS IN VARIOUS CAMMING POSTS ALONG WITH OTHERS.... OR READ ROBERT WAYS POST AND DIY.....

IN OTHER WORDS I TELL CORPORALS, SARGEANTS, AND CAPTAINS ETC WHATS WHAT OFTEN IN MY SPARE TIME, RUN PROJECTS, AND KEEP A FLEET ALIVE LIKE A 1980 SIDE DUMP CIRCLE BARREL INTERNATIONAL GARBAGE TRUCK...BIG STINKY....AND TRAIN PEOPLE TO DO ABOUT ANYTHING TO FIX A MAX PRISON IF ITS IN MY PERVIEW .......ROFL MURR.... I DRIVE WHAT OTHERS DROOL OVER DAILY, HOPEFULLY YOU DO AND KEEP IT BETWEEN THE LINES AND HELD TOGETHER AND IF YOU RACE KNOW TO STUDY UP THE COMPETITION DOES.....

NOT INTO TOO MUCH BUT BEING HAPPY ..WHICH MATTERS SO MUCH MORE THAN BUTT HURT...... AND IF I CAN OVER TIME STEER SOMEONE INTO NOT BLOWING THEIR MOTOR RUINING THIER DREAM OR CRUSHING THEIR CAMARO IT GOES WITH ALL THE RIDES I BUILD OVER THE DECADES....

AND BTW MY PRISON HOSTS A CAR SHOW WITH THE BEST CNC AND HARDWOOD TROPHIES OTHER PLACES CAN ONLY DREAM OF AS WE HAVE A COMMERCIAL LAUNDRY, METAL SHOP THAT MAKES ANYTHING INCLUDING THE INSERTS FOR DUMP TRUCKS FOR SPRAYING AND GRAVEL, AND A FURNITURE FACTORY, CALL CENTER , ETC.... WE MAKE EM WORK. AND WE ARE STUDIED BY OTHERS FOR RECIDIVISM. K I WILL STFU....LOL AND YES I HAVE BUILT A YUGO, A LUV AND GRANDA, AND SO MANY MANY OTHERS...LOL

[Jrizo]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

NO I TAKE CARE OF THE MOTOR POOL AT WORK ALSO I AM FORMER==MECHANIZED,
AND STRAIGHT LEG, RESPECTED USUALLY BY ALL AND KNOWN TO SAY MURR......AND TOO MUCH TIME ON MY HANDS THIS MORNING, REALLY IF HE WANTS ADVICE HE COULD READ ALL MY RCOMMENDATIONS TO OTEHRS IN VARIOUS CAMMING POSTS ALONG WITH OTHERS.... OR READ ROBERT WAYS POST AND DIY.....

IN OTHER WORDS I TELL CORPORALS, SARGEANTS, AND CAPTAINS ETC WHATS WHAT OFTEN IN MY SPARE TIME, RUN PROJECTS, AND KEEP A FLEET ALIVE LIKE A 1980 SIDE DUMP CIRCLE BARREL INTERNATIONAL GARBAGE TRUCK...BIG STINKY....AND TRAIN PEOPLE TO DO ABOUT ANYTHING TO FIX A MAX PRISON IF ITS IN MY PERVIEW .......ROFL MURR.... I DRIVE WHAT OTHERS DROOL OVER DAILY, HOPEFULLY YOU DO AND KEEP IT BETWEEN THE LINES AND HELD TOGETHER AND IF YOU RACE KNOW TO STUDY UP THE COMPETITION DOES.....

NOT INTO TOO MUCH BUT BEING HAPPY ..WHICH MATTERS SO MUCH MORE THAN BUTT HURT...... AND IF I CAN OVER TIME STEER SOMEONE INTO NOT BLOWING THEIR MOTOR RUINING THIER DREAM OR CRUSHING THEIR CAMARO IT GOES WITH ALL THE RIDES I BUILD OVER THE DECADES....

AND BTW MY PRISON HOSTS A CAR SHOW WITH THE BEST CNC AND HARDWOOD TROPHIES OTHER PLACES CAN ONLY DREAM OF AS WE HAVE A COMMERCIAL LAUNDRY, METAL SHOP THAT MAKES ANYTHING INCLUDING THE INSERTS FOR DUMP TRUCKS FOR SPRAYING AND GRAVEL, AND A FURNITURE FACTORY, CALL CENTER , ETC.... WE MAKE EM WORK. AND WE ARE STUDIED BY OTHERS FOR RECIDIVISM. K I WILL STFU....LOL AND YES I HAVE BUILT A YUGO, A LUV AND GRANDA, AND SO MANY MANY OTHERS...LOL

Totally unnecessary to throw the vet card around man. I dont think its relevant at all to the OP or anything really. Here I can do it too.

Your idea is dumb because im a former Marine squad leader and led troops in combat!