Sloppy Brakes... What is the Cause? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Nighthawk89 · 01-06-2018, 04:13 PM

I have tried just about everything.. But for some reason my peddle still feels soft and inconsistent.. Im starting to consider all potentials.. I have stainless lines.. I have bleed the system on more then one occasion with no air bubbles..

Could it potentially be caused by my Stage 3 PD BTR cam?
Maybe i need to activate the ABS system when bleeding?
Potentially add an aftermarket brake booster system?

What are your recommendations..

olblue75 · 01-06-2018, 10:56 PM

I installed a big in a motor years ago and lost a lot vacuum you may need a vacuum reservoir?

TWOFORTYZ · 01-06-2018, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawk89

I have tried just about everything.. But for some reason my peddle still feels soft and inconsistent.. Im starting to consider all potentials.. I have stainless lines.. I have bleed the system on more then one occasion with no air bubbles..

Could it potentially be caused by my Stage 3 PD BTR cam?
Maybe i need to activate the ABS system when bleeding?
Potentially add an aftermarket brake booster system?

What are your recommendations..

If you have less vacuum due to an aftermarket cam, your brake pedal would be stiffer than stock. Unless you have high mileage and these cars have a 2 stage booster (like the crown victoria) I would bet you still have air in your lines, flush a whole liter of fluid through and see what happens, also try the old 2-3 pumps, hold, release to bleed and push the bubbles out. If you are using a sunction bleeder, I bet that is part of your issue, they are not easy to use perfectly, I often sucked in air through the bleeder threads.

I love ATE brake fluid. It's the only one I haven't boiled, and I used to make my rotors glow on the 240Z.

Stay safe and be cautious, any inconsistancy with braking can be scary.

TWOFORTYZ · 01-06-2018, 11:06 PM

Also, try Porterfield R4s Pads if you beat your car AND need the brakes to work below freezing temps. They were amazing from my experience. I have noticed the Hawks seem to bite harder as they warm up, where as the R4s bites much harder initially and has a more progressive gain, never fading.

Are you having issues while driving normally or on track? Pads will change their friction charactaristics as they change temp, also regular dot4 fluid boils easily and could be another issue.

Nighthawk89 · 01-07-2018, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblue75

I installed a big in a motor years ago and lost a lot vacuum you may need a vacuum reservoir?

Potentially. I am going to start diagnosing it more in-depth this upcoming week..

Nighthawk89 · 01-07-2018, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWOFORTYZ

If you have less vacuum due to an aftermarket cam, your brake pedal would be stiffer than stock. Unless you have high mileage and these cars have a 2 stage booster (like the crown victoria) I would bet you still have air in your lines, flush a whole liter of fluid through and see what happens, also try the old 2-3 pumps, hold, release to bleed and push the bubbles out. If you are using a sunction bleeder, I bet that is part of your issue, they are not easy to use perfectly, I often sucked in air through the bleeder threads.

I love ATE brake fluid. It's the only one I haven't boiled, and I used to make my rotors glow on the 240Z.

Stay safe and be cautious, any inconsistancy with braking can be scary.

My guess it there could still be air in the system but rather caught in the ABS portion if that is possible? I believe it started acting funky when I had to removed my calipers to have them sent off for powder coating. My guess is even though I did my best to reduce potential for air to get in the system it did.. I used the motive speed bleeder originally and since have tried the old 2-3 pump method but likely need to do it a second time with more fluid and to activate the ABS..

JOHNSONROD · 01-07-2018, 08:56 PM

ive had the exact thing happen after caliper rebuild. you definitely need to keep bleeding. do this bother...
bleed em 15 seconds per bleeder, inner and outer, starting at the right rear, then left rear, then left front, then right front. as soon as you do this, take the car out somewhere safe and purposely active the abs by over braking. do it til you feel the springy fuzzy feel when the abs kicks in. i normally do this 3 or 4 times. then immediately go back and bleed again 15 seconds per bleeder inner and outer in the same order.

hammdo · 01-07-2018, 09:08 PM

TWOFORTYZ · 01-09-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nighthawk89

My guess it there could still be air in the system but rather caught in the ABS portion if that is possible? I believe it started acting funky when I had to removed my calipers to have them sent off for powder coating. My guess is even though I did my best to reduce potential for air to get in the system it did.. I used the motive speed bleeder originally and since have tried the old 2-3 pump method but likely need to do it a second time with more fluid and to activate the ABS..

That is a possibility. I was a professional mechanic earlier in my career, and I have replaced ABS units and always bled them at the master cylinder, then abs unit before bleeding at the calipers. I had excellent results, but never gave up early and always flushed a minimum of a full liter of fluid through the systems.

Activating the abs may also be a good idea, although I have not had to do that to bleed brakes. High volume of flow usually gets the bubbles out, if not, pumping the pedal can disperse/foam the bubbles and help to get the air out.

A word about powder coating brake calipers.... Have you seen the chemicals they use to strip the paint? I have a free connection on powder coating and I'd never have my calipers powder coated. The paint stripper can etch the aluminum, although this does not commonly cause problems it still makes me uncomfortable. Are your calipers leaking by any chance?

01-06-2018, 04:13 PM	#1
Nighthawk89 Drives: 2011 Camaro 2Ss M6 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Southern California Posts: 4,013	Sloppy Brakes... What is the Cause? I have tried just about everything.. But for some reason my peddle still feels soft and inconsistent.. Im starting to consider all potentials.. I have stainless lines.. I have bleed the system on more then one occasion with no air bubbles.. Could it potentially be caused by my Stage 3 PD BTR cam? Maybe i need to activate the ABS system when bleeding? Potentially add an aftermarket brake booster system? What are your recommendations..

01-06-2018, 10:56 PM	#2
olblue75 Drives: 2010 2SS/RS Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Clarksville Tennesse. Posts: 6,064	I installed a big in a motor years ago and lost a lot vacuum you may need a vacuum reservoir? __________________ Orange Krush II 1LE Front sway bar, Splitter, shocks and struts, Z28 dual mode mufflers, Intake, UCA Bushings, and Toresen 3.91 Diff. 1 piece DSS Drive Shaft, ZL1/C7 Calipers, and 32mm JPSS Rear Bar. ASC race spec splitter and wicker. 6th Gen M017 Wheels. Stainless Works 1 7/8 LTs. DSE and PAFDT Suspension components.

01-07-2018, 09:08 PM	#8
hammdo 'It's an experiment' Drives: [COTW 2/09/15] '11 GPI LSA SC Z/LE Join Date: May 2014 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 8,694 View My Garage	I installed an LFX electric booster pump to help on startup for vacuum: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1102 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1103 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1104 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1106 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1113 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1114 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1115 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1118 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1119 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...postcount=1120 I found a tech II is the only other option outside of what JOHNSONROD notes about ABS activation... Motive blender works great too! http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=907 http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=908 -Don __________________ 747 RWHP 794 RWTQ "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." - Enzo Ferrari See My Build: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=385577

01-06-2018, 11:06 PM	#4
TWOFORTYZ Drives: 2015 Camaro 1SS 6M Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: The Freeway Posts: 238	Also, try Porterfield R4s Pads if you beat your car AND need the brakes to work below freezing temps. They were amazing from my experience. I have noticed the Hawks seem to bite harder as they warm up, where as the R4s bites much harder initially and has a more progressive gain, never fading. Are you having issues while driving normally or on track? Pads will change their friction charactaristics as they change temp, also regular dot4 fluid boils easily and could be another issue.

01-07-2018, 08:56 PM	#7
JOHNSONROD Drives: 62 Chevy & 2021 1SS/1LE manual Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 893	ive had the exact thing happen after caliper rebuild. you definitely need to keep bleeding. do this bother... bleed em 15 seconds per bleeder, inner and outer, starting at the right rear, then left rear, then left front, then right front. as soon as you do this, take the car out somewhere safe and purposely active the abs by over braking. do it til you feel the springy fuzzy feel when the abs kicks in. i normally do this 3 or 4 times. then immediately go back and bleed again 15 seconds per bleeder inner and outer in the same order.