Congress Should Stop Giving GM Funds - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Supermans · 03-09-2009, 04:40 AM

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide

Congress Should Stop Giving GM Funds, Republican Lawmakers Say

By Nadine Elsibai

March 8 (Bloomberg) -- Republican lawmakers said Congress should stop providing General Motors Corp. with federal aid and let the company file for bankruptcy if necessary.

“The best thing that could probably happen to General Motors, in my view, is they go into Chapter 11,” Senator John McCain said on the “Fox News Sunday” program today.

The automaker could reorganize and renegotiate its labor contracts to come out “stronger, better, leaner,” McCain, from Arizona, said.

GM is cutting executive pay and will eliminate 47,000 jobs this year as part of a restructuring required to keep $13.4 billion in U.S. loans. GM’s Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner is seeking to persuade the U.S. Treasury to lend the carmaker as much as $16.6 billion more to survive.

The largest U.S. automaker has lost $82 billion since its last annual profit in 2004 and has been fending off speculation about bankruptcy for more than two years.

U.S. auto sales plunged 18 percent to a 16-year low in 2008, affecting GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC.

Senator Richard Shelby, the top ranking Republican on the Banking Committee, said on ABC’s “This Week” program that “subsidization of anything for very long never works.”

“The automobile business -- those companies, Chrysler, Ford and General Motors -- they’re in deep trouble,” Shelby, of Alabama, said. “I’ve suggested they go into Chapter 11. That’s where they belong. And they could reorganize.”

A Viable Company

House Minority Leader John Boehner said the government shouldn’t give GM any more money “until General Motors shows that they can be a viable company for the long term.”

“Anything short of that is just throwing good money after bad,” Boehner said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” program today.

A voicemail left seeking comment from GM today wasn’t immediately returned.

The Federal Reserve’s Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility program, or TALF, may help struggling automakers raise cash to make loans to consumers.

TALF’s aim is to bring investors back to the market for bonds backed by auto loans, credit cards, student loans and small businesses.

The Fed will start disbursing TALF funds March 25 to prop up the market for consumer and small business loans, the central bank said on March 3. The program was originally set to start in February.

‘Not Life Support’

“Any money we give to the auto industry must be a lifeline, not life support,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters at a weekly press briefing March 5, saying the ultimate decision remains with the administration. “This isn’t endless. But there has to be a sign of viability. And this needs to happen, and it needs to happen soon.”

In a statement released two days ago responding to a Wall Street Journal report, the automaker said that “GM has not changed its position on bankruptcy.”

“As we’ve demonstrated through a series of actions, GM is moving quickly and aggressively to restructure the business, and achieving that outside of court remains the best solution for GM and its constituents,”

*The_Blur* · 03-09-2009, 10:00 AM

That title isn't the most biased representation possible.

I would expect nothing less of an article about GM. The Malibu, CTS, Cobalt, and G8 show no signs of competing with the market. Their unimpressive ratings and reviews reflect no interest in competing with the market in areas of performance, fuel efficiency, comfort, and luxury. This complete lack of competitive will is most evident in platforms that do show up at the track, only to score 7:22.6 at the Nurburgring. GM doesn't have the most cars producing over 30 mpg on the highway, and all of those E85 cars are a hoax.

Seriously, Congress wants GM to produce impotent cars to kill it. It's amazing. They want fuel efficient city cars, no trucks, and no performance vehicles. Let's not forget that the competitive imports are loving the possibility that American sports cars would no longer be competing with their products. It would be great if the Republican side of Congress looked outside and saw all of the GM cars on the street that show that people buy their products or that GM was a victim of a credit crunch.

Call your elected officials.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 03-09-2009, 10:06 AM

GM has evaluated multiple bankruptcy senarios as congress asked them too. These are outlined IN DETAIL in their viability plan submitted last month. ALL of them are bad news. That should be the end of discussion on this...but everyone's an expert.

And imo -- a bunch of senators' opinions on this is absolutely worthless, as they're all idiots and forever will be. They never make a good decision, never succeed in running anything smoothly or even correctly, but on this subject...well, on this they're suddenly enlightened heroes! The hypocracy of it all stuns me. :(

An open question to anyone who watched the first hearing: How many of those senators live under false assumptions about the Big Three's product lineup? How many of them believe that is the reason they're failing? How many of them believe the big three "don't make products people want to buy"? And how many of them drive Domestic automobiles? A minority. The vast majority got elected on a foundation of lies and money. We should let these people make a decision about one of the single largest industries in the country?!?!

Let me echo The_Blur's statement:
Call your elected officials.

garagelogic · 03-09-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

GM has evaluated multiple bankruptcy senarios as congress asked them too. These are outlined IN DETAIL in their viability plan submitted last month. ALL of them are bad news. That should be the end of discussion on this...but everyone's an expert.

And imo -- a bunch of senators' opinions on this is absolutely worthless, as they're all idiots and forever will be. They never make a good decision, never succeed in running anything smoothly or even correctly, but on this subject...well, on this they're suddenly enlightened heroes! The hypocracy of it all stuns me. :(

An open question to anyone who watched the first hearing: How many of those senators live under false assumptions about the Big Three's product lineup? How many of them believe that is the reason they're failing? How many of them believe the big three "don't make products people want to buy"? And how many of them drive Domestic automobiles? A minority. The vast majority got elected on a foundation of lies and money. We should let these people make a decision about one of the single largest industries in the country?!?!

Let me echo The_Blur's statement:
Call your elected officials.

I don't think you would be any happier if you did let the people decide. I think you would find that GM and Chrysler would have not gotten the loans they did back in December had the wishes of the American people not been ignored. A majority of people in this country, me included, do not want my tax dollars going to prop up companies that would be doomed to failure eventually without them.

*Mr. Wyndham* · 03-09-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garagelogic

I don't think you would be any happier if you did let the people decide. I think you would find that GM and Chrysler would have not gotten the loans they did back in December had the wishes of the American people not been ignored. A majority of people in this country, me included, do not want my tax dollars going to prop up companies that would be doomed to failure eventually without them.

I agree with you. They probably wouldn't have gotten the loans. And our economy right now might look like a picnic compared to what we'd be going through.

Thankfully, it was up to the president to decide. One relatively intellegent person complimented by a cadre of economic and financial professionals can make smarter, faster decisions than a room full of blithering idiots spouting their false presumptions, and groundless opinions.

Hopefully -- only the people who see and understand the importance of their survival will have enough drive to look up that phone number of their senators, and everyone else will sit at home and b***h at their TV. I can live with that.

dbotsfordtat · 03-09-2009, 12:35 PM

IMO We should stop giving funds to Congress.

Chevyrocker · 03-09-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

IMO We should stop giving funds to Congress.

Scott@Bjorn3D · 03-09-2009, 12:56 PM

Congress is a joke, give AIG 115 Billion and they lose 65 Billion in a quarter. But no we can't save our last piece of American manufacturing.

Jerks.

garagelogic · 03-09-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I agree with you. They probably wouldn't have gotten the loans. And our economy right now might look like a picnic compared to what we'd be going through.

Thankfully, it was up to the president to decide. One relatively intellegent person complimented by a cadre of economic and financial professionals can make smarter, faster decisions than a room full of blithering idiots spouting their false presumptions, and groundless opinions.

Hopefully -- only the people who see and understand the importance of their survival will have enough drive to look up that phone number of their senators, and everyone else will sit at home and b***h at their TV. I can live with that.

I know there are scores of studies that warn of the "catastrophic" effects of having any or all of the big three go down, but I'm of the opinion that, while it would definitely have a significant negative effect on the economy, the nuclear option of bankruptcy is the best long-term solution.

It's pretty clear what position you take based on your posts and comments, and I believe it to be that GM is too big and too important to let it fail. That's fine, but firing off backhanded insults at people whose opinions differ from your own is not going to help the problem at all.

PQ · 03-09-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garagelogic

I know there are scores of studies that warn of the "catastrophic" effects of having any or all of the big three go down, but I'm of the opinion that, while it would definitely have a significant negative effect on the economy, the nuclear option of bankruptcy is the best long-term solution.

It's pretty clear what position you take based on your posts and comments, and I believe it to be that GM is too big and too important to let it fail. That's fine, but firing off backhanded insults at people whose opinions differ from your own is not going to help the problem at all.

I didn't see an insult.

Someone refresh my memory. There was a congressman who admited that they were not financial experts but elected officials who needed to educate themselves and become more informed by the experts who know the business and the numbers. (Romney sure looks good right now) So I agree with Blur and Dragoneye.

Call your elected officials.

Silver Streak · 03-09-2009, 03:34 PM

And your remarks(garagelogic) are just so uplifting! OMG the irony of you saying that is too much to bare!

Supermans · 03-09-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irpq11

I didn't see an insult.

Someone refresh my memory. There was a congressman who admited that they were not financial experts but elected officials who needed to educate themselves and become more informed by the experts who know the business and the numbers. (Romney sure looks good right now) So I agree with Blur and Dragoneye.

Call your elected officials.

You all know where I stand by now..And for those of you new to the forums, I do agree with Rowney's original assessment back before the first auto industry bailout..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Streak

And your remarks(garagelogic) are just so uplifting! OMG the irony of you saying that is too much to bare!

Why do you want the cycle to continue..If another bailout is given, what makes you so sure this time around things will be any different?? Why are so against Chapter 11 and for another bailout?

FAF · 03-09-2009, 11:56 PM

Stop the sufering file chapter 11 and get rid of the us unions if need increase the production in canada and mexico until the us unions are gone no over paid union worker and become competitine and stop whining by the unions be produvctive.
reduce pension plans and get to work.

*DGthe3* · 03-10-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supermans

Why are so against Chapter 11 and for another bailout?

Although this wasn't specifically directed at me . . .

Ch 11 will cost significantly more, will take too long, will never be paid back, and will likely result in Ch 7 anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAF

Stop the sufering file chapter 11 and get rid of the us unions if need increase the production in canada and mexico until the us unions are gone no over paid union worker and become competitine and stop whining by the unions be produvctive.
reduce pension plans and get to work.

Canada has unions too, and the productivity of GM's union plants are right in line with Japanese transplants, in many cases they are more productive. Oh, and they get paid the same amount too. Single biggest difference is the number of retired workers, practically 0 for transplants and thousands upon thousands for the UAW. I won't comment on reducing pension.

03-09-2009, 04:40 AM	#1
Supermans Camaro & Stang Enthusiast Drives: 2011 Mustang 5.0 in Kona Blue Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 4,752 View My Garage	Congress Should Stop Giving GM Funds http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide Congress Should Stop Giving GM Funds, Republican Lawmakers Say By Nadine Elsibai March 8 (Bloomberg) -- Republican lawmakers said Congress should stop providing General Motors Corp. with federal aid and let the company file for bankruptcy if necessary. “The best thing that could probably happen to General Motors, in my view, is they go into Chapter 11,” Senator John McCain said on the “Fox News Sunday” program today. The automaker could reorganize and renegotiate its labor contracts to come out “stronger, better, leaner,” McCain, from Arizona, said. GM is cutting executive pay and will eliminate 47,000 jobs this year as part of a restructuring required to keep $13.4 billion in U.S. loans. GM’s Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner is seeking to persuade the U.S. Treasury to lend the carmaker as much as $16.6 billion more to survive. The largest U.S. automaker has lost $82 billion since its last annual profit in 2004 and has been fending off speculation about bankruptcy for more than two years. U.S. auto sales plunged 18 percent to a 16-year low in 2008, affecting GM, Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC. Senator Richard Shelby, the top ranking Republican on the Banking Committee, said on ABC’s “This Week” program that “subsidization of anything for very long never works.” “The automobile business -- those companies, Chrysler, Ford and General Motors -- they’re in deep trouble,” Shelby, of Alabama, said. “I’ve suggested they go into Chapter 11. That’s where they belong. And they could reorganize.” A Viable Company House Minority Leader John Boehner said the government shouldn’t give GM any more money “until General Motors shows that they can be a viable company for the long term.” “Anything short of that is just throwing good money after bad,” Boehner said on CBS’s “Face the Nation” program today. A voicemail left seeking comment from GM today wasn’t immediately returned. The Federal Reserve’s Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility program, or TALF, may help struggling automakers raise cash to make loans to consumers. TALF’s aim is to bring investors back to the market for bonds backed by auto loans, credit cards, student loans and small businesses. The Fed will start disbursing TALF funds March 25 to prop up the market for consumer and small business loans, the central bank said on March 3. The program was originally set to start in February. ‘Not Life Support’ “Any money we give to the auto industry must be a lifeline, not life support,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters at a weekly press briefing March 5, saying the ultimate decision remains with the administration. “This isn’t endless. But there has to be a sign of viability. And this needs to happen, and it needs to happen soon.” In a statement released two days ago responding to a Wall Street Journal report, the automaker said that “GM has not changed its position on bankruptcy.” “As we’ve demonstrated through a series of actions, GM is moving quickly and aggressively to restructure the business, and achieving that outside of court remains the best solution for GM and its constituents,” __________________ Bought my Camaro from Eric Hall(817) 421-7266

03-09-2009, 10:00 AM	#2
The_Blur Moderator Drives: 2018 Harley-Davidson Street Bob Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 14,769	On Sarcasm That title isn't the most biased representation possible. I would expect nothing less of an article about GM. The Malibu, CTS, Cobalt, and G8 show no signs of competing with the market. Their unimpressive ratings and reviews reflect no interest in competing with the market in areas of performance, fuel efficiency, comfort, and luxury. This complete lack of competitive will is most evident in platforms that do show up at the track, only to score 7:22.6 at the Nurburgring. GM doesn't have the most cars producing over 30 mpg on the highway, and all of those E85 cars are a hoax. Seriously, Congress wants GM to produce impotent cars to kill it. It's amazing. They want fuel efficient city cars, no trucks, and no performance vehicles. Let's not forget that the competitive imports are loving the possibility that American sports cars would no longer be competing with their products. It would be great if the Republican side of Congress looked outside and saw all of the GM cars on the street that show that people buy their products or that GM was a victim of a credit crunch. Call your elected officials. __________________ RDP Motorsport//GEN5DIY//Cultrag Performance//JPSS//Rodgets Chevrolet// Operation Demon//Buy at Invoice//RACECARWEAR RESPECT ALL CARS. LOVE YOUR OWN. warn 145:159 ban

03-09-2009, 10:06 AM	#3
Mr. Wyndham I used to be Dragoneye... Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 31,876 View My Garage	GM has evaluated multiple bankruptcy senarios as congress asked them too. These are outlined IN DETAIL in their viability plan submitted last month. ALL of them are bad news. That should be the end of discussion on this...but everyone's an expert. And imo -- a bunch of senators' opinions on this is absolutely worthless, as they're all idiots and forever will be. They never make a good decision, never succeed in running anything smoothly or even correctly, but on this subject...well, on this they're suddenly enlightened heroes! The hypocracy of it all stuns me. :( An open question to anyone who watched the first hearing: How many of those senators live under false assumptions about the Big Three's product lineup? How many of them believe that is the reason they're failing? How many of them believe the big three "don't make products people want to buy"? And how many of them drive Domestic automobiles? A minority. The vast majority got elected on a foundation of lies and money. We should let these people make a decision about one of the single largest industries in the country?!?! Let me echo The_Blur's statement: Call your elected officials. __________________ *"Keep the faith."* - Fbodfather

03-09-2009, 03:34 PM	#11
Silver Streak Drives: 2008 Cobalt SS/TC Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Smyrna Bch. Florida Posts: 1,449 View My Garage	And your remarks(garagelogic) are just so uplifting! OMG the irony of you saying that is too much to bare! __________________ *"What? You wanna lay the fate of the world on that kids Camaro? That's cool!"* *"The future is in the windshield, not the rear-view mirror!"* *"If you haven't gone a 175 mph on land, you haven't lived! That's just a fact!" - Ricky Bobby*

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03-09-2009, 12:35 PM	#6
dbotsfordtat Drives: 2016 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Iowa Posts: 502	IMO We should stop giving funds to Congress.

03-09-2009, 12:56 PM	#8
Scott@Bjorn3D Drives: Kami, 2013 2SS LS3 Luvin Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Eufaula, Alabama Posts: 6,427	Congress is a joke, give AIG 115 Billion and they lose 65 Billion in a quarter. But no we can't save our last piece of American manufacturing. Jerks.

03-09-2009, 11:56 PM	#13
FAF Member Drives: 2010 Camaro, 2008 Tundra Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 183	Stop the sufering file chapter 11 and get rid of the us unions if need increase the production in canada and mexico until the us unions are gone no over paid union worker and become competitine and stop whining by the unions be produvctive. reduce pension plans and get to work.