[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Ninjac

Hate to tell you guys talking about the strip and the Camaro being faster.....The average buyer DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. Only car enthusiast do. Out of lets say 10 cars sold, maybe...maybe 3 actually are buying the car to take it down a 1/4....and that's a high number.
Mustang does well because it's a well put together car with nice styling and plenty of umph for the average driver. IMO the Camaro came in to high of a price tag. But that's just me.

As for the racing, well real racers mod their cars. NOBODY is running a stock anything who is serious about going to the track. By mods I mean at least a tire, and 80% or more will have a tire, CAI, and a tune. After that its up to the drivers.

I have seen quite a few stock looking 550's with Whipple's underneath the hood. Don't be fooled. The Mustang aftermarket is HUGE. TT, S/C, Centri's, they are all available right now and can be put in by average people who know how to turn an wrench.

As I said, the average car buyer is not looking at who is faster off the lot. The enthusiast is a mod away from going 10's....that's just the simple truth.

[Enator]

This month is exactly 6 years ago i started with these figures
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74608

[z28guy30]

Originally Posted by Ninjac

Hate to tell you guys talking about the strip and the Camaro being faster.....The average buyer DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THAT. Only car enthusiast do. Out of lets say 10 cars sold, maybe...maybe 3 actually are buying the car to take it down a 1/4....and that's a high number.
Mustang does well because it's a well put together car with nice styling and plenty of umph for the average driver. IMO the Camaro came in to high of a price tag. But that's just me.

As for the racing, well real racers mod their cars. NOBODY is running a stock anything who is serious about going to the track. By mods I mean at least a tire, and 80% or more will have a tire, CAI, and a tune. After that its up to the drivers.

I have seen quite a few stock looking 550's with Whipple's underneath the hood. Don't be fooled. The Mustang aftermarket is HUGE. TT, S/C, Centri's, they are all available right now and can be put in by average people who know how to turn an wrench.

As I said, the average car buyer is not looking at who is faster off the lot. The enthusiast is a mod away from going 10's....that's just the simple truth.

You brought up some good points, and you are correct the Mustang has a great aftermarket and it would not break the bank to modify your Mustang to be faster than the Camaro. Styling is subjective... but I personally like the looks of the Camaro more. And the Camaro while pricier than the Mustang does offer a lot of bang for the buck also. At just over $40k you can have a car that can compete with cars in the $60k-$80k price range.

Bottom Line: The Ford Mustang is still selling like hotcakes, and the Chevy Camaro's sales numbers are slightly lower than anticipated. Coming from a previous 5th gen 2SS owner...the outside the Camaro may look a bit like an upgraded 5th gen, but in reality there is no comparison between the two as a whole. Take a 6th gen on a test drive, play around with the driving modes, and mash the throttle and you will see what I mean!

Come to think of it...I guess I fall under that 25% enthusiast population!

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Enator

This month is exactly 6 years ago i started with these figures
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74608

That's cool, and we thank you for it. I always look forward to seeing the numbers.

[68fbjjz109]

Originally Posted by chain777

Unless you have some inside information, assuming GM is making good money is pure fanboy speculation. I doubt the business plan at GM was to sell about 50% less Camaros than Mustangs this go around. I really expected the gap to start closing by now, but that's not happening at all. A few bad months are now beginning to look like a trend.

The way I see it is they priced the car too high compared to the competition, they compromised the ergonomics too much and they failed to evolve the styling enough to differentiate it from the gen 5. I really doubt GM is happy with the sales numbers. I just hope this isn't a repeat of the gen 4. Mustang and Camaro need each other to be the best they can be.

It's a good thing this platform is shared, because all three cars based on Alpha, although praised by the automotive press, haven't translated into sales.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...sler/23852189/

This is a little old. But based on our Benchmarking of Ford. This will likely only increase. It's tough to build cars in the US and be profitable.

[YellowFin]

As long as Camaros are selling well enough to make money to stay in production I'm good with it. There is more exclusivity to owning a Camaro (or Challenger) versus a Mustang. You see a Mustang on every corner...not a Camaro. This "cheapens" the Mustang to me. I've owned a Mustang, and it's a good car...Camaro has my heart though.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by YellowFin

As long as Camaros are selling well enough to make money to stay in production I'm good with it. There is more exclusivity to owning a Camaro (or Challenger) versus a Mustang. You see a Mustang on every corner...not a Camaro. This "cheapens" the Mustang to me. I've owned a Mustang, and it's a good car...Camaro has my heart though.

I agree completely.

The sales figures will go up too once there is more public awareness and what the sales figures doesn't show is other factor's like reducing manufacturing costs by moving the Camaro to a shared platform.

Profitability does not necessarily = "the most sales".

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by z28guy30

You brought up some good points, and you are correct the Mustang has a great aftermarket and it would not break the bank to modify your Mustang to be faster than the Camaro. Styling is subjective... but I personally like the looks of the Camaro more. And the Camaro while pricier than the Mustang does offer a lot of bang for the buck also. At just over $40k you can have a car that can compete with cars in the $60k-$80k price range.

Bottom Line: The Ford Mustang is still selling like hotcakes, and the Chevy Camaro's sales numbers are slightly lower than anticipated. Coming from a previous 5th gen 2SS owner...the outside the Camaro may look a bit like an upgraded 5th gen, but in reality there is no comparison between the two as a whole. Take a 6th gen on a test drive, play around with the driving modes, and mash the throttle and you will see what I mean!

Come to think of it...I guess I fall under that 25% enthusiast population!

The other issue that isn't discussed is the percentage of buyers age and percentage of buyers male/female, break down of V6/V8 sales.

GM sticking with the BA styling theme to make the enthusiasts happy may or may not have turned off a portion of the buying public.

And if all you wanted was a car that appealed to the magazines and the type of customer that comes on Camaro5/6 12 times per day, then they did a GREAT job.

Originally Posted by 68fbjjz109

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus...sler/23852189/

This is a little old. But based on our Benchmarking of Ford. This will likely only increase. It's tough to build cars in the US and be profitable.

Well Toyota and Honda and Hyundai are all building their high volume entries in the U.S.. Only Hyundai is about to open a plant for Kia in Mexico. It is tougher when every car still carries the burden of a $40,000 per year pension for every assembly worker after 30 years. That is why the Japanese and Korean companies can make money building here. GM still supports over 1,000,000 retirees last I knew. You do the math on that one on a per car basis.

Originally Posted by YellowFin

As long as Camaros are selling well enough to make money to stay in production I'm good with it. There is more exclusivity to owning a Camaro (or Challenger) versus a Mustang. You see a Mustang on every corner...not a Camaro. This "cheapens" the Mustang to me. I've owned a Mustang, and it's a good car...Camaro has my heart though.

Here in Chicago I see very few new Mustangs, and only because there are two in the parking lot at work. I have yet to see a Gen6 on the road. Only parked at dealerships. Both are still rare here.

Originally Posted by merlin803

I agree completely.

The sales figures will go up too once there is more public awareness and what the sales figures doesn't show is other factor's like reducing manufacturing costs by moving the Camaro to a shared platform.

Profitability does not necessarily = "the most sales".

The car has been on sale since October right? The only thing GM can do now is advertise the car. And right now they've been riding the "free" advertising from all the magazine articles. We'll see if they step up advertising and marketing......like the Indy 500 pace car.



No one on here should be assuming anything on whether the car is meeting expectations, failing or even exceeding. Unless Chevy comes out and says we expected XXX sales and are disappointed, we will never know. And even when they say, "it's meeting our expectations", that is marketing speak for not admitting it may be a sales turd. We'll just never know.

What we do know is that GM is following up with a convertible in the same model year, they've announced the 1LE and ZL1 for the start of the very next model year and we are seeing what certainly seems to be a Z/28 on test. This means GM (Reuess and AO) didn't have to go to anyone to justify and win approval for these models. The money and expectation for profit are there from the get go. Remember, these models came well after launch in the Gen5.

And this is on top of Chevrolets lineup. Go to a dealer today and you'll see:

All new Volt
All new Malibu
All new Cruze
All new Camaro (6 months old now but all new)

by the end of the year you can add:

All new Spark
freshened Sonic
freshened Traxx

And the game changing Bolt. Sorry Tesla.

LOL the Impala is now the old dog in the Chevy family.

So GM is bringing us unprecedented new product and still making money.

Current sales aren't bad, they just aren't as good as the Gen5 (remember the March number includes some Gen5s so any comparison to Gen5 sales is almost moot. Not sure how to break out Gen6 only sales). And they aren't as good as Mustang. What would be bad is for the Camaro to sell in the 3,500 to 4,000 per month clip. That wrecks any business case as that is selling Corvette numbers without Corvette pricing.

GM can fix price with rebates. I can assure you if the car was not selling well in GM's eyes you would see $$ on the hood. There isn't any yet. You'd see employee specials. There aren't any yet.

GM can't fix the BA styling, visibility, trunk space, rear seat room. And if those are the reasons the car isn't selling to a broader audience then it will be a while before Camaro can outsell Mustang.

My belief is GM convinced themselves this was a good safe choice. In the long run it may pay off.

For now, just enjoy the car and enjoy what's coming in the next 8 months or so.

I've accepted the car won't outsell the Mustang any time soon.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by chain777

Unless you have some inside information, assuming GM is making good money is pure fanboy speculation. I doubt the business plan at GM was to sell about 50% less Camaros than Mustangs this go around. I really expected the gap to start closing by now, but that's not happening at all. A few bad months are now beginning to look like a trend.

The way I see it is they priced the car too high compared to the competition, they compromised the ergonomics too much and they failed to evolve the styling enough to differentiate it from the gen 5. I really doubt GM is happy with the sales numbers. I just hope this isn't a repeat of the gen 4. Mustang and Camaro need each other to be the best they can be.

It's a good thing this platform is shared, because all three cars based on Alpha, although praised by the automotive press, haven't translated into sales.

There is a plan. Last months press released discussed this strategy also.

Chevrolet and GMC Make GM the Hottest Retail Automaker in the Industry
Fri, Apr 01 2016

“The strong retail and Commercial sales GM has been delivering are the result of a multi-year strategy to strengthen our brands, attract new customers and grow profitably,” said Kurt McNeil, U.S. vice president of Sales Operations. “We are growing retail sales faster than the industry, and we are doing it with disciplined incentives and inventories, and lower rental deliveries. Our business is very healthy, and we are going to manage it with conviction to keep it that way.”

https://www.gm.com/investors/sales/u...roduction.html

[Cyber10]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

I don't get why so many of you dwell on this...

1- These sales do not include the 4 cylinder, convertible, 1LE or ZL1 as they were not/are not available yet.

2- GM doesn't need to have the same numbers as Ford does since the Mustang is the only car using that platform, while the CTS, ATS and Camaro share the Alpha to help distribute the volume.

3- Pretty sure the Camaro is not being sold to fleets yet.

As per your last point, I can't comment on fleet sales in general, but GM has definitely been selling the 2016s to fleets for at least a few months now(most seem to be V6 in both coupe and convertible but I haven't really poked through them that much).

I do see more 2016 Mustangs than Camaros though, they don't even compare(speaking of Enterprise in the entirety of Indiana). I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mustang continue leading sales though even if GM wasn't restricting fleet sales. The 2015 Mustang was the first one that has caught my eye in a long time, and from many people I've talked to they share the same opinion. But, like most Mustangs, they seem to be a dime a dozen.

[Jeb114]

What the dealers are seeing is this. very few of the Camaro owners are trading in there vehicles for the Gen6. Some for the price why buy another car for more money that is not much different,(I am taking about general public not enthusiasts). They are also seeing when the people find out the price of the car, Other options for other makes of vehicles come into play. example, My friend owns a Chevy/BMW dealer. He stated when the Camaro trade-ins come in and get hit with sticker shock, The owners realize they are in BMW series 4 or 5 territory and say if I am going to spend that much why would I want the same car I just traded in. Most buyers do not care about performance just what they look like in the vehicle. And let's be real summers coming and almost every 22-30 year old, Long blond hair girl wants to be in a new black BMW convertible. Sorry girls I know that is sexist.

[AZCamaroFan]

it is too bad GM won't spend money to advertise the car. this time there's no movie to promote it either.
you won car of the year. how much of the general public knows it?

[90503]

Just for variety, another take on sales...

http://www.torquenews.com/106/ford-m...combined-march

From the article....:

"Frankly, having driven the new Camaro 1LT RS, I truly do not understand why people aren’t buying more of them. The Camaro is better in every way than the version which led the segment in sales for 5 straight years. It blows my mind that more people aren't snatching up the 6th gen models."

[mkorgan]

I went to look at a new Camaro with my wife a couple weeks ago after being talked into it by a friend of mine who bought a new SS. I have a Gen5 ZL1 and would not trade it for anything in the world so I was just "window shopping". My wife summed up what I believe is the issue here. She said, "What is the difference between this and what Mark has?". Mark has a Gen5 Camaro SS. My wife, who has been through more Camaros with me than we can count and is very much a car person, could not tell the difference in the Gen5/Gen6 SS at first glance. Now after spending 15 minutes going around the car, she recognized the rear and front fascia difference and obviously the inside improvements BUT she walked away saying, "It would have to be more than that for me to get out of my Gen5 SS if I was Mark." Now I know this is one person and you guys will probably say she is just ignorant of the true improvements in the car but if this is 50%+ of your buying public...I think it is indicative of the #'s you see in sales.