iPhone/iPad tracking your location...

[Brokinarrow]

(first, full disclosure, I do NOT own an iPhone, I just hate the principle of this whole mess)
I'm sure plenty of us have heard about this crap, Apple's official response to 1. "Why is Apple tracking the location of my iPhone?": Apple is not tracking the location of your iPhone. Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so.

Riiiight, nevermind those precise coordinates on my phone along with time stamps that are getting stored unencrypted on my computer. I'm just SURE that hackers would NOT want to look at those to figure out when they can rob me, hi-jack my car on my route to work, etc. Or maybe they'll just offer that info for sale to local thieves, sales people, my psychotic stalker ex?

But you know what bugs me the MOST about this whole thing? The scary amount of people that seem to think it's not a big deal...

Here's the full Q & A from Apple on the subject:

1. Why is Apple tracking the location of my iPhone?
Apple is not tracking the location of your iPhone. Apple has never done so and has no plans to ever do so.

2. Then why is everyone so concerned about this?
Providing mobile users with fast and accurate location information while preserving their security and privacy has raised some very complex technical issues which are hard to communicate in a soundbite. Users are confused, partly because the creators of this new technology (including Apple) have not provided enough education about these issues to date.

3. Why is my iPhone logging my location?
The iPhone is not logging your location. Rather, it’s maintaining a database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers around your current location, some of which may be located more than one hundred miles away from your iPhone, to help your iPhone rapidly and accurately calculate its location when requested. Calculating a phone’s location using just GPS satellite data can take up to several minutes. iPhone can reduce this time to just a few seconds by using Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data to quickly find GPS satellites, and even triangulate its location using just Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data when GPS is not available (such as indoors or in basements). These calculations are performed live on the iPhone using a crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data that is generated by tens of millions of iPhones sending the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple.

4. Is this crowd-sourced database stored on the iPhone?
The entire crowd-sourced database is too big to store on an iPhone, so we download an appropriate subset (cache) onto each iPhone. This cache is protected but not encrypted, and is backed up in iTunes whenever you back up your iPhone. The backup is encrypted or not, depending on the user settings in iTunes. The location data that researchers are seeing on the iPhone is not the past or present location of the iPhone, but rather the locations of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers surrounding the iPhone’s location, which can be more than one hundred miles away from the iPhone. We plan to cease backing up this cache in a software update coming soon (see Software Update section below).

5. Can Apple locate me based on my geo-tagged Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
No. This data is sent to Apple in an anonymous and encrypted form. Apple cannot identify the source of this data.

6. People have identified up to a year’s worth of location data being stored on the iPhone. Why does my iPhone need so much data in order to assist it in finding my location today?
This data is not the iPhone’s location data—it is a subset (cache) of the crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower database which is downloaded from Apple into the iPhone to assist the iPhone in rapidly and accurately calculating location. The reason the iPhone stores so much data is a bug we uncovered and plan to fix shortly (see Software Update section below). We don’t think the iPhone needs to store more than seven days of this data.

7. When I turn off Location Services, why does my iPhone sometimes continue updating its Wi-Fi and cell tower data from Apple’s crowd-sourced database?
It shouldn’t. This is a bug, which we plan to fix shortly (see Software Update section below).

8. What other location data is Apple collecting from the iPhone besides crowd-sourced Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower data?
Apple is now collecting anonymous traffic data to build a crowd-sourced traffic database with the goal of providing iPhone users an improved traffic service in the next couple of years.

9. Does Apple currently provide any data collected from iPhones to third parties?
We provide anonymous crash logs from users that have opted in to third-party developers to help them debug their apps. Our iAds advertising system can use location as a factor in targeting ads. Location is not shared with any third party or ad unless the user explicitly approves giving the current location to the current ad (for example, to request the ad locate the Target store nearest them).

10. Does Apple believe that personal information security and privacy are important?
Yes, we strongly do. For example, iPhone was the first to ask users to give their permission for each and every app that wanted to use location. Apple will continue to be one of the leaders in strengthening personal information security and privacy.

[TOMS1SS]

Well all have computer chips in us one day, there is no such thing as privacy any more. From time to time I wonder what life would be like going back to a land line phone, no answering service, no internet and no cable.

[liquidsmoke]

If you look closely, I'm sure you will see the irony here, it's almost too much to not say exactly.

But on to the matter at hand.

I do own an iPhone.
1st, I'm not sure why anyone is freaking out about this. People are letting bloggers and the news get them all bent outta shape over nothing.

This is not new news. This has been publicly known for over a year and even longer if you count the location service based on wifi hotspots and cell towers.
Apple is not trying to pull the sheets over anyone's eyes.
If you read the license agreement you have to agree to multiple times, it clearly states your iPhone will send annonomous location data and some times precise location data back to apple. None of the data is associated with you (unlike google) so it really isn't a big deal. No one at apple or anywhere else for that matter can look at any of this data and pin pont the location of any known person.
Even users who are looking at the data in the file everyone is talking about, see that the actual locations are not precise and often miles from where they actually were. That's because, like your article says, these are wifi and cell tower location caches to help speed up gps tracking. It's called agps (assisted gps) and has worked this way since the first iPhone and virtually every smart phone does exactly the same thing, exactly the same way.

It's almost like you didn't even fully read the article you posted based on your comments.

1 the file does not have precise location data, anyone who has looked at the data will tell you as much. There are hundreds of entries with the exact same time stamps, but different locations.

2. You can and should encrypt your iPhone sync data on your computer for multiple reasons. And the checkbox to do it isn't hidden in some settings menu, it's right on the main page when you sync your phone.

3 every smart phone with gps does this, and in the case with google that data is tied to a unique identification number. But some how it's big brother steve jobs who's stalking me.

You know what bugs me the most about these types of things is people like you who don't fully research something before you go talking about it. It just adds to confusion and gets people excited for no reason. You don't even own an iPhone and looking at your sig you drive a scion. So please don't tell me that your on a camaro forum for a car u don't own complaining about a phone you don't own?
Your join date is 08 so I'm hoping u just didn't update ur sig, other wise I find it funny as hell.

[Iwantone2]

Not directed at anyone in particular, but

[WadeWilson]

[IROCanSS]

Originally Posted by Fearer2010SS

Well all have computer chips in us one day, there is no such thing as privacy any more. From time to time I wonder what life would be like going back to a land line phone, no answering service, no internet and no cable.

Dude... how would we get good deals on mods then? Blasphmy!

[brandotron]

Throw the word "HACKERS" in and anything's scary. I like that my iPhone can track my location. It's good for emergency services, should something happen, and I use it all the time with google maps.

OMGWTFBBQ, DID YOU KNOW THAT HACKERS COULD FEED BABY DUCKS???!!!!!!11

see?

[Brokinarrow]

Sorry, but you don't need to keep precise location details stored on a phone for a years worth of time, AND have those locations timestamped to figure out where wi-fi hotspots and cell towers are located. Nor do you need to have your location services turned on at all times in order for emergency services to find you, they can have the phone company remotely activate that in such a situation.

Dunno, maybe I'm just a paranoid privacy freak, but I take exception to ANYONE keeping that detailed of tabs on me.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by liquidsmoke

If you look closely, I'm sure you will see the irony here, it's almost too much to not say exactly.

But on to the matter at hand.

I do own an iPhone.
1st, I'm not sure why anyone is freaking out about this. People are letting bloggers and the news get them all bent outta shape over nothing.

This is not new news. This has been publicly known for over a year and even longer if you count the location service based on wifi hotspots and cell towers.
Apple is not trying to pull the sheets over anyone's eyes.
If you read the license agreement you have to agree to multiple times, it clearly states your iPhone will send annonomous location data and some times precise location data back to apple. None of the data is associated with you (unlike google) so it really isn't a big deal. No one at apple or anywhere else for that matter can look at any of this data and pin pont the location of any known person.
Even users who are looking at the data in the file everyone is talking about, see that the actual locations are not precise and often miles from where they actually were. That's because, like your article says, these are wifi and cell tower location caches to help speed up gps tracking. It's called agps (assisted gps) and has worked this way since the first iPhone and virtually every smart phone does exactly the same thing, exactly the same way.

It's almost like you didn't even fully read the article you posted based on your comments.

1 the file does not have precise location data, anyone who has looked at the data will tell you as much. There are hundreds of entries with the exact same time stamps, but different locations.

2. You can and should encrypt your iPhone sync data on your computer for multiple reasons. And the checkbox to do it isn't hidden in some settings menu, it's right on the main page when you sync your phone.

3 every smart phone with gps does this, and in the case with google that data is tied to a unique identification number. But some how it's big brother steve jobs who's stalking me.

You know what bugs me the most about these types of things is people like you who don't fully research something before you go talking about it. It just adds to confusion and gets people excited for no reason. You don't even own an iPhone and looking at your sig you drive a scion. So please don't tell me that your on a camaro forum for a car u don't own complaining about a phone you don't own?
Your join date is 08 so I'm hoping u just didn't update ur sig, other wise I find it funny as hell.

1. Dude, if you go search for stories on this, a research group made an app that imports the location data from your iPhone and maps it out for you. It is VERY specific location data. Apple is quite blatantly lying about this fact. Again, go search for any new story on this and it will show you.

Here: http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...phone-tracking

2. Ok, that I didn't know about, very cool.

3. Yeah, I realize most phones (including my EVO) track wi-fi hotspots and cell towers. I'm fine with that because you can't pinpoint my location just by viewing that data. The iPhone keeps MUCH more detailed location data stored.

So, back to your point about not fully researching stuff? Yeah, try again there buddy, go FULLY RESEARCH the iPhone tracking debacle then get back to me.

Lastly, the Camaro in my sig WAS mine. Due to the shitty economy I was forced to take a pay cut at work after I got the car, and quickly realized I wasn't going to be able to afford it. So instead of defaulting and getting the car repoed, I swallowed my pride and down graded. Any more questions into my personal life there pal?

[wylde1]

There is an easy way to make sure the hackers and apple and big government can't track your location. Sell all your electronic posessions and move to Guatemala. haha

sorry just playin' devils advocate. haha

these days, if you have an electronic device.... someone knows where you are. You just can't get around it.

[liquidsmoke]

Originally Posted by Brokinarrow

1. Dude, if you go search for stories on this, a research group made an app that imports the location data from your iPhone and maps it out for you. It is VERY specific location data. Apple is quite blatantly lying about this fact. Again, go search for any new story on this and it will show you.

Here: http://technolog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...phone-tracking

2. Ok, that I didn't know about, very cool.

3. Yeah, I realize most phones (including my EVO) track wi-fi hotspots and cell towers. I'm fine with that because you can't pinpoint my location just by viewing that data. The iPhone keeps MUCH more detailed location data stored.

So, back to your point about not fully researching stuff? Yeah, try again there buddy, go FULLY RESEARCH the iPhone tracking debacle then get back to me.

Lastly, the Camaro in my sig WAS mine. Due to the shitty economy I was forced to take a pay cut at work after I got the car, and quickly realized I wasn't going to be able to afford it. So instead of defaulting and getting the car repoed, I swallowed my pride and down graded. Any more questions into my personal life there pal?

1. I am fully aware of the app that maps the data, there are two of them, one for the mac and another one from someone else that does the same thing on the pc. I have looked at the data first hand myself and it is not pin point accurate. Just as others have already said who looked at the actual data and not read something somewhere, its wifi hotspots and cell towers, which can range from being very close to you, to miles away. If they wanted pinpoint location, they could just use the gps thats built into the phone and it will show exactly where you are within a few meters. If i was evil and wanted to track your every location, i wouldnt go about it trying to find out where you are based on wifi and cell tower triangulation, i would just activate your gps chip. But if i wanted to know what area you are in so i could speed up gps satellite fixes, i would go this route.

but you wouldnt know this cuz you dont have an iphone and you havent looked at the data yourself, your just believing what someone else is telling you. Just because you read something somewhere dont mean its true, no matter what the source is or how reputable they are. Find out for sure on your own if your that concerned. Like i am, since i do have an iphone i looked into it myself and not blindly following some tech bloggers.

the only thing in this whole issue thats valid is the fact that the iphone keeps the data log a lot longer than is needed, which apple says is a bug and will be fixed in the next update.

Do i believe them, sure. Because if they really wanted to track people and keep it a secret, one it would be really hard to keep anyone from finding out, 2 they would of went about it a completely different way.
apples business model doesn't even support this type of stuff. They dont sell your personal information to other companies for money. If anyone wants to be paranoid, they should look at google. There entire business model is to sell your information, thats why all there stuff is free. If you want to be upset about something, maybe you should look at google and that EVO you're carting around and how much of your data that goes to google gets passed around to other companies. Maybe you should take a look at what googles ceo thinks about privacy.


and lastly, i wasnt asking any questions into your personal life, i just thought it was ironic and i still do.

[Haloman1346]

Trying to burn somebody about there sig is retarded........ Nice V6 btw.......

[FenwickHockey65]

Did you post this just because of tonight's South Park episode?

Just remember to READ the agreements.

Oh, and I don't own a Camaro either. Got a problem with it?

[LimaCharlie]

All of us are being tracked right now simply by using the Internet. If you have a cell phone with you right now, you are being tracked. Etc, etc. etc.....
Nobody forces you to use the internet, an IPhone, cell phone, etc. for personal use, convenience, and entertainment. If you are worried about companies tracking you, don't use the devices.