Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Phastek Performance
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-11-2009, 09:26 AM   #15
wavrun2000
o come on
 
wavrun2000's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 GTO
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Naples FL
Posts: 437
Yeah a prime example of a rebadged car is the Holden Monaro which is also know as a the Pontiac GTO and the Vauxhall Monaro VXR






Hopefully this will clear up the rebadged CTS-V issue
__________________
06 GTO with three pedals like it should be
wavrun2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 09:51 AM   #16
Crowley
Okie doke
 
Crowley's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 GT500
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: McKinney Texas
Posts: 3,568
It depends on what it will be built to compete against. It makes more sense to have the Z/28 with the LS9 engine if you are putting it against the GT500. Fully built engine vs Fully built engine with a slight edge to the larger displacement engine

Crowley
__________________
Crowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:14 AM   #17
CamaroSpike23
Truth Enforcer
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,797
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
lol, remember the comment about "touchy issue?"

Personally i would consider the Z/28 a rebadged CTS-V because it would be 2-door, same engine, roughly same deminsions, very likely the same transmission, i mean yeah the platform may be different but how different is it really? looking at the two you'd probly never know the difference
so... are these rebadged?









they both share the same drivetrain and are about the same size






Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Now as for "weaker internals" i did mean "weaker" not weak itself, ive heard about the testing and yeah its impressive, but some still preffer those better parts...and yeah the LS7 doesnt have all the bells and whistles the LS9 has but its got a lot more in the way of that kinda stuff than the LSA


some people do still prefer "better" parts. but there arent enough of them to buy the car to make it feasible. the camaro isnt just made to be powerful, its made to last and keep the cost low.

Do I want an LS7 Z28? no. if anything for a n/a motor, I'd love for GM to do LSX packages. 440LSX, 454LSX, 436LSX, hell, they could even make the damn thing carbureted.

the LS7, LS9 and LSA all have a lot of innovative features, however, it is not easy to mount and route a dry sump oiling system in the camaro. ask hennessey.



Also ive heard everyone talking about the cost of the LS9, well how can we really set a price? All people are going by is the ZR1's price which, aside from the fact that there's so many carbon fiber and extra performance components, it was still a legendary car as soon as it hit the showroom floor, not to mention the cream of the crop of GM's crowned king of the crop, of course it'd be extremely expensive...does that make the engine horribly expensive? Not necessarily.

you can buy a crate LS9 for around 20-25k. that being said, take 20k. add it to the MSRP of the SS and you are already looking at past 50k for the car, plus you will need an upgraded drivetrain to deal with the power, so lets add some more in, granted, you can cut some of that cost down by subtracting the price of the LS3 and SS level transmissions. but then factor in the redesign of the engine bay to facilitate the dry sump oiling system and now youve got to change the entire build of the car to fit that engine.

Do I want it? yes. will it happen from the factory? no.


The COPO comment was just proving putting the #1 Corvette engine in a productin Camaro has been more than considered before, its been carried out (also wasnt the 1LE the same way? Im not sure on that though)

Really the big thing that has come to light for me is the warrenty issue

warranty is the big kicker as well. and I can tell you that the LSA is on hell of a motor. gm tests the living balls out of these motors. try going WOT for a week or two straight.... ~7300+rpm with no problems.



LSA will most likely be going into the car, unless they can get the Gen V motors out the door now.

my personal choice over the LSA?

440LSX.
__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
A group as a whole tends to be smarter than the smartest person in that group until one jackass convinces everyone otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:15 AM   #18
CamaroSpike23
Truth Enforcer
 
CamaroSpike23's Avatar
 
Drives: anything I can get my hands on
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,797
Send a message via Yahoo to CamaroSpike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
It depends on what it will be built to compete against. It makes more sense to have the Z/28 with the LS9 engine if you are putting it against the GT500. Fully built engine vs Fully built engine with a slight edge to the larger displacement engine

Crowley

but why do you need a fully built engine to face off against a mustang?


__________________
Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
A group as a whole tends to be smarter than the smartest person in that group until one jackass convinces everyone otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Nobody makes CamaroSpike happy. You just disgust him a little less than other people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WheelmanSS View Post
Post count is truly an accurate measure of how cool someone is on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Norris View Post
I piss excellence
and fart awesomeness
"You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
But not all people were born awesome like you, Spike.
CamaroSpike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:53 AM   #19
wavrun2000
o come on
 
wavrun2000's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 GTO
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Naples FL
Posts: 437
The LSA would compete with the GT500 just fine. The only downfall for the Camaro is that it is a porker compared to the GT500.
__________________
06 GTO with three pedals like it should be
wavrun2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 01:52 PM   #20
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,343
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavrun2000 View Post
The LSA would compete with the GT500 just fine. The only downfall for the Camaro is that it is a porker compared to the GT500.
wanna take bets on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEFTLANENEWS
With a curb weight of 3,924 pounds, the 5.4-liter engine received an EPA rating of 14-mpg city, and 22-mpg highway – not bad.
link

even if the camaro is heavier do to the supercharge (which it will be) why can't they use weight savings to help curb that. it will be within 150 lbs I suspect.

3860 SS manual
3752 mustang GT with track pack (link to where I got that info)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 02:01 PM   #21
Black5thgen
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 2007 C6
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
wanna take bets on that?
I do, I do

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
even if the camaro is heavier do to the supercharge (which it will be) why can't they use weight savings to help curb that. it will be within 150 lbs I suspect.
My guess is they will. I would guess a lighter exhaust, maybe some fiberglass and lighter wider wheels. They could take notes from the Z06 guys. When the Z28 does come out (I doubt Ed Welburn would open his mouth unless it's coming) it will be a hair under 4K lbs.
Black5thgen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 02:23 PM   #22
wavrun2000
o come on
 
wavrun2000's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 GTO
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Naples FL
Posts: 437
I don't think they are going to do much in terms of weight savings. That would mean that they would have to have special parts made specifically for the Z28 and this will just make cost go up even more. With some of the ideas that are being thrown out here (weight reductions & LS9) the Z28 may be comparable to the GT500 performance wise, but it will be far more expensive.
__________________
06 GTO with three pedals like it should be
wavrun2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 02:29 PM   #23
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,343
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by wavrun2000 View Post
I don't think they are going to do much in terms of weight savings. That would mean that they would have to have special parts made specifically for the Z28 and this will just make cost go up even more. With some of the ideas that are being thrown out here (weight reductions & LS9) the Z28 may be comparable to the GT500 performance wise, but it will be far more expensive.
the aftermarket is already making some good light weight parts and better suspension componets. not too many custom parts need to be made. just ordered.

lol. wow sorry I still don't see how you think it's going to be so much more then the GT500. maybe after markups that some dealers like to charge. but the same crap was said about the camaro before it came out with the LS3. it's going to be too expensive if they put that motor in there. . .where did they price it? again I still think it will be a hair more then the GT500. and that's because of the performance premium. if I've learned something about chevy with the 4th gens and now the 5th gens. they don't like to come in second when it comes to performance against the stang.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 02:34 PM   #24
2010 SSRS



 
2010 SSRS's Avatar
 
Drives: 3 V8 Camaros
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Ocean State
Posts: 111,187
I just want to see a supercharged option for the Camaro next year, even if it is on the SS.
2010 SSRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 03:26 PM   #25
Dboy23
2G1FB1EV7A9100028
 
Dboy23's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Jeep Wrangler Hemi
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 882
I'd like to see the Leno Camaro become the new Z28, would be pretty cool (but highly unlikely).

I think the LSA would be a good motor for the Z28 but I think stuff like a Carbon Fiber Hood, lighter wheels, lighter exhaust, maybe even seats who knows but that would do a ton for the weight and would help it compete with the GT500 (direct competition) trust me GM's smarter than to make the Z28 slower than that.
__________________
# 28 - Victory Red 1LT/RS (SOLD)
Dboy23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 03:32 PM   #26
KoTToN
 
KoTToN's Avatar
 
Drives: 2005 SilveradoSS AWD
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County -CA
Posts: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post


hardly just a supercharged ls3. may share the same 6.2L's and maybe the same block but the heads, cam, valvtrain, and internals are all different. so hardly a simple ls3 with more boost.
"Both LS9 and LSA are 6.2L engines biased on the LS3. Before you think that these motors just have a supercharger slapped on - you'd be dead wrong.

Both are built to be 20% stronger than the LS3 short-block, according to GM, and even have forged (LS9) or hypereutectic pistons (LSA) with oil-spray cooling to handle the pushing power. The heads on these engines are similar to the L98/L76/LS3 heads except that they were slightly redesigned to aid in mix the air/fuel being pumped in by the supercharger.

The difference can also be found in the supercharger. The LS9 has a 4-lobe Eaton 2.3 L supercharger on top, while the LSA has a smaller 1.9 L. Both are the most powerful engines offered in their respective cars, the LS9 in the Corvette ZR1, and the LSA in the CTS-V and hopefully the Camaro Z28 one day."
__________________
Sales Forcasting 101A:
Quote:
Originally Posted by returnofcc View Post
Like I said before, there is a dealership that is 4 miles away from my house that has 3 2SS's just sitting on their lot. And this is a very small dealership it's not a high volume dealership in a populated area., Come early summer, when 2011's are coming out, the camaro will be offered for 0%. I guarantee it
Sales Forcasting 101B:
Quote:
Originally Posted by returnofcc View Post
apparently you didn't understand my post correctly. If there are 4 (now 6) camaros sitting at a low volume dealership, just imagine how many are sitting at the high volume dealerships
KoTToN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 03:40 PM   #27
boxmonkeyracing
juggernaut
 
boxmonkeyracing's Avatar
 
Drives: VRSCF, 2011 SS vert
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: kenly, nc
Posts: 3,343
Send a message via AIM to boxmonkeyracing Send a message via Yahoo to boxmonkeyracing
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoTToN View Post
"Both LS9 and LSA are 6.2L engines biased on the LS3. Before you think that these motors just have a supercharger slapped on - you'd be dead wrong.

Both are built to be 20% stronger than the LS3 short-block, according to GM, and even have forged (LS9) or hypereutectic pistons (LSA) with oil-spray cooling to handle the pushing power. The heads on these engines are similar to the L98/L76/LS3 heads except that they were slightly redesigned to aid in mix the air/fuel being pumped in by the supercharger.

The difference can also be found in the supercharger. The LS9 has a 4-lobe Eaton 2.3 L supercharger on top, while the LSA has a smaller 1.9 L. Both are the most powerful engines offered in their respective cars, the LS9 in the Corvette ZR1, and the LSA in the CTS-V and hopefully the Camaro Z28 one day."
um that's what I was saying. I said hardly as in they are hardly close. the only real feature is the 6.2L displacement. so I hope you intended that for someone else. I was just commenting on what you had said that it was pretty much an ls3 with a supercharger and the ls9 a bigger supercharger.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
boxmonkeyracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 04:23 PM   #28
radz28
Petro-sexual
 
radz28's Avatar
 
Drives: Ultra-Grin
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Crazy Coast
Posts: 15,156
I'm going to agree with many posts and points in this thread too. I DO favor LSA because of many reasons.
  • It's already engineered to take a beating
  • It's already proven itself
  • I imagine there's untapped power in it; some have already exploited it
  • Because of the awful state I live in, CARB-legal parts are far and few between (and the ones that are legal are usually barely worth the time and $$$). Swapping a pulley, adding exhaust and CAI would likely power power up past 600, IMHO
  • Less expensive than LS9; it leaves more $$$ to invest in the rest of the powertrain and chassis; more money for some model-specific body parts

As much as I'd like to see LSA (I'd love LS9, but agree it just wouldn't keep the cost relatively reasonable), I don't think I'd mind a DI V8. If it made at least LS7 power, but preferrably more, I wouldn't have much of a problem. I'm just Hell-bent on a supercharger engine - those Ford boys have had enough fun without us
__________________

'20 ZL1 Black "Fury"
A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor
Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // TooHighPSI Port Injection // FF // Katech Dual In-Tank // Soler 103 // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs
radz28 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The mighty LSA supercharged V8. Mr. Wyndham Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 137 05-07-2011 10:05 PM
PWA "The Lounge" DGthe3 Off-topic Discussions 143773 11-06-2010 11:00 AM
Al Oppenheiser on Z/28..... ShnOmac Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 126 04-29-2010 03:26 AM
My theory about the Z/28 GM4lyfe Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 36 09-30-2009 06:39 PM
2011 Z/28 Camaro "Reality" IROCZJEFF 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 55 09-16-2008 12:55 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.