Z28 in 2014?

[LeanPocket]

have a feeling it will be the z28 ss.. like before

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

This "he said, she said" regarding "Corvette engine" usage belies one always-in-play FACT: Put the same engine in a 3900 lb vehicle and it will NOT outperform a 3200 lb vehicle, all other things being similar, which of course they're not...

It was the same at Ford when the 540 hp engine was used in the far-superior (dynamically) GT chassis than in the GT 500 Stang. GT outran the bigger/heavier/less-dynamic Stang...and so would the Vette. By its very nature, the Vette maintains a certain performance superiority over the Camaro...

The GT 500 is on a par, now, with the mid-decade GT only because of an extra 100+ hp...and improved GY tires.

Try that recipe on the 1SS/1LE Gen-5 Camaro with LS7 motor-vation and Michelin Pilot SS or Cup tires...and then watch the competition cringe!

I understand that entirely and have said it many times but, and this is the key, if we know that, then GM knows that. So why haven't they used the high peformance Corvette engines in the Camaro in any recent cars?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...markets are downsizing because of tighter market shares and economic downturn reasons. Same as the simple explaination is that we don't have 6 divisions or so of products anymore, and 16 color options., That old model does not work. WE know the ZL1 morphed form the initial intent of resurecting the Z/28. Let's get back to the face of Chevy and basics, who really cares about a ZL1? How long has it been made? It's a replacement for the iconic GM muscle car...why carry a halo performer in the Camaro lineup other than Z/28? What impact has it to anyone who knows anything about what if was in the past and any meaning it has it has to us now? Can the limited market share<and price> be sustained over time? It's a 100th year of Chevy tip of the hat product design that Chevy can showcase... and they can do this thing whenever they see fit. It's here, they did it, better off retiring it, and moving forward with the Z/28 only I say. And make it what they wanted it to be before the economic collapse.

Yes, it's much less expensive to offer more options for a car than to add another car or a whole other division selling the same car restyled, but under a different name. So I beg to differ adding more available optioning to the Camaro will only inflate the customer base and profits not the cost.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by LeanPocket

have a feeling it will be the z28 ss.. like before

Not a chance.

[KarFan]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I understand that entirely and have said it many times but, and this is the key, if we know that, then GM knows that. So why haven't they used the high peformance Corvette engines in the Camaro in any recent cars?

Cost. LS7 and LS9 are handbuilt and and were developed to be in higher priced Z06 and ZR1. The LSA is mass produced with less exotic materials and developed to be used in lower priced applications. To compete in the market at the Camaro price point has thusfar precluded GM from using the handbuilt premium Corvette engines.

That isn't to say they couldn't but it would likely mean cutting out profit or building the car at a loss or raising the price out of the it's target market or even removing some of the cost from the engine.

Lot's of options. None have been done yet.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by KarFan

Cost. LS7 and LS9 are handbuilt and and were developed to be in higher priced Z06 and ZR1. The LSA is mass produced with less exotic materials and developed to be used in lower priced applications. To compete in the market at the Camaro price point has thusfar precluded GM from using the handbuilt premium Corvette engines.

That isn't to say they couldn't but it would likely mean cutting out profit or building the car at a loss or raising the price out of the it's target market or even removing some of the cost from the engine.

Lot's of options. None have been done yet.

I agree completely. It was more or less a rhetorical question.

[Mikes SS]

Originally Posted by KarFan

Cost. LS7 and LS9 are handbuilt and and were developed to be in higher priced Z06 and ZR1. The LSA is mass produced with less exotic materials and developed to be used in lower priced applications. To compete in the market at the Camaro price point has thusfar precluded GM from using the handbuilt premium Corvette engines.

That isn't to say they couldn't but it would likely mean cutting out profit or building the car at a loss or raising the price out of the it's target market or even removing some of the cost from the engine.

Lot's of options. None have been done yet.

This is still part of the reason I am against the LS7 in the Camaro. Price..little guys like me being able to afford one. It should not be possible for a supercharged engine (LSA) to cost less than a NA engine(LS7) Sure it would be a fun car, you could have big boy bragging rights to say you have a 7.0L engine in your car, but seriously adding at least 10K to the Camaro is just insane. You get a ton more bang for your buck modding 10k worth of stuff to your car starting with a 1LE base.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

This is still part of the reason I am against the LS7 in the Camaro. Price..little guys like me being able to afford one. It should not be possible for a supercharged engine (LSA) to cost less than a NA engine(LS7) Sure it would be a fun car, you could have big boy bragging rights to say you have a 7.0L engine in your car, but seriously adding at least 10K to the Camaro is just insane. You get a ton more bang for your buck modding 10k worth of stuff to your car starting with a 1LE base.

The LSA is built on a production line while the LS7 is hand built.

What would you choose to power the Z/28?

[shaffe]

out of the engines in the currently available, the LS7 is the only one that makes sense.

Even if they don't call it a Z/28 the more I think about there being a 427 Camaro available just sounds bad ass hahaha.

[Mikes SS]

I want the motor that I know GM is playing around with in some little room in an undisclosed place. I look at it this way, the LLT/LFX is roughly rated at 87 HP/L , I am holding my breath for the same formula 5.3L DI 6700-7k rev limit engine for "my" Z/28. Knowing that it has been reported that the LT1 is compared to the torqyiness of the LS7, due to in part of the DI, I don't see going backwards being a good idea

[toehead93]

Your DIV8 will happen for the Gen6 but I really see zero chance for GM to put a DIV8 into the gen5 espcially one making almost the same power as the LS3/L99 that your 5.3L will have. Just my opinion plus the fact that what little leaked info we have confirms all the unofficial info we have...LS7! Only question is will it be tagged a Z28 and what other goodies come with it. We will know in 2 weeks.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

I want the motor that I know GM is playing around with in some little room in an undisclosed place. I look at it this way, the LLT/LFX is roughly rated at 87 HP/L , I am holding my breath for the same formula 5.3L DI 6700-7k rev limit engine for "my" Z/28. Knowing that it has been reported that the LT1 is compared to the torqyiness of the LS7, due to in part of the DI, I don't see going backwards being a good idea

You won't see the gen 5 small block in the refreshed 5th gen Camaro. It would probably keep the LS3/LSA.

[Mikes SS]

yeah no biggie, that's alll I am saying..the LS7 is too big and too expensive for a Z/28(track ready, poor mans race car)..just call it the LS7 just like the concept pictures and I am happy with that.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Mikes SS

that's all I am saying..the LS7 is too big

How so?

Physically, LS7 is the same size as the LS3. Avoir du pois, same as LS3 if "wet-sumped".

Only driveline issue for a 1LE-based version, in my mind (besides adding ZL1 6-piston front Brembos), is adding the HD ZL1 or CTS-V rear diff. center section...which, by itself before other "possible adjustments", adds less than 30 lb...in the rear (better balance). And adding Michelin PSS/Cup non-run-flats would offset the bigger front brakes' weight in total.

Throw in a pair of 1LS non-powered grippy cloth seats, and you're very close to weight-neutral...with a composite vented hood.

Pricing (again):

Is it fair/proper to assume GM makes about the same money on an LS3 crate engine as they make on an LS7 crate engine? If so, substitute the mass-mechandised price differential of $7,000. Now add some cert/val costs.

Now add the mass-merchandised price differential for the Brembos (6-piston + 2-piece rotors vs. 4-piston) of less than $1,000.

The deletion of the dual 6-ways ($800 @ MSRP, or $400 each) pays for the hood...

A distinguishing grille (they have several to choose from in-house)...and "hold" the graphix (afaic)...

Now, 1SS/1LE + cert/val LS7 + HD Carrier + 6-piston Brembos + 1LS seats + vented composite hood = same Margin @ "under $50,000".

Conclusion:

Call it whatever you want...but "hold" the badges/stripes/embroidered seats/mats on mine.

Black-on-Black, please.

...and my VISA number ends in 002-short...