Value of a catch can.

[AmericanMuscleCars]

How much did you pay for your car? Oh yeah, that much.

[zfuzz]

This has been posted several times on Camaro5 but it is worth posting one more time. LSA in a CTSV. I don't know how good the catch can in the video is but the amount it is catching is pretty scary.

[joes407]

Originally Posted by zfuzz

This has been posted several times on Camaro5 but it is worth posting one more time. LSA in a CTSV. I don't know how good the catch can in the video is but the amount it is catching is pretty scary.

that is scary! was that a bunch of drag pulls or a circuit race? i drive like that every day so im glad i got my rx catch can on, maybe ill check it every oil change after seeing that video.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

I understand this is not related to oil changes. It is the same oil just the vapors that are recirculated from the PVC system into the intake track.

Playing devils advocate. When you cook your food you do not use air which is a great insulator you cook with oil that provides better heat transfer. I know many have said that the oil reduces the heat transfer of the intercooler but has anyone done a scientific study to prove it? So far no one has shown a reduction of power due to intercooler fowling. Lots have mentioned it but I searched for case of it occuring. I have not found a single mention of a CTS-V or ZL1 having low power and the intercooler being cleaned to return the power. If anyone has had this happen please post it here. Ideally with before and after dyno sheets.

On old carbureted engines many did not have a PVC system (just a breather cap venting to the atmosphere) at all and the deposits still formed without any oil ingestion. (I have pulled apart engines with no PVC and they still have deposits. In well tuned motors it was a tan color and black on cars that were running rich. Old school tuning you would pull the spark plugs to check the color.) Remember gas is an oil based product and does not burn completely. This is easy to prove. Check your tail pipes. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...hlight=exhaust

BTW Carburated cars would not have any more or less fuel than an injected car. AFR is an ideal that you try to keep regardless of the type of induction. Fuel injection is just far more precise in metering the fuel across all operating conditions.

I have seen tons of pictures with coated intercoolers. just search. that is why there is a can on my car.

2009 was the first year of this engine so it is not like there are tons of high milage cars out there. every engine will benifit though as engines don't run on oil. there is nothing bad about preventing oil from being ingested by the engine.

[BlackinBlack]

Originally Posted by td195f

I don't think the cooking analogy works here. What we are talking about is fouling of heat transfer surfaces. Try a google search on that for information. A layer of oil on the surface of the intercooler tubes will inhibit the ability to transfer heat across the tube. Remember that the intercoolers used on forced induction engines are designed as air to liquid or air to air heat exchangers. I believe the oil will actually act as an insulator and reduce heat transfer efficiency. It will also over time cause a buildup that will increase the pressure drop across the intercooler, reducing the flow thru the cooler. I do have some experience with this in large water to water heat exchangers in Nuclear Power Plants and any fouling including oil will reduce the heat exchangers ability to transfer heat efficiently.
Also, I'm not talking about AFR. A good tuner can setup a carb that can match an EFI system. I'm talking about the injectors ability to atomize the fuel better than a carburetor which will maintain the atomized fuel in suspension with the air. This will result in less fuel puddling and a more efficient burn. That's why I would expect more fuel wash in an engine with a carb. Ideally you want all the fuel atomized into very fine droplets and in suspension with the air. That will result in the maximum burn and the most power.
The oil on those old vented to atmosphere engines probably came through the valve stem seals and down the valve stems and built up over time.
FYI, I still tune my blown alcohol motor by reading the spark plugs as well as using EGTs.
I own a direct injected diesel truck and now have the valve cover vents connected to a vented catch can under the truck because the original configuration connected the valve cover vents to the inlet of the turbocharger. I discovered the extent of oil fouling the turbo and intercooler, etc. when I discovered oil dripping off one of the silicone connection hoses to the intercooler. When I removed the intercooler I could pour oil out of it. The compressor side of the turbo, the inlet and outlet connections to the intercooler, the intercooler, and the intake manifold were all fouled with oil and required extensive cleaning. Mix the oil with the soot and diesel fuel that comes back in via the EGR and you get a huge nasty mess in the intake manifold and the intake ports of the heads. This occurred over about 60,000 miles.

Great info.

Originally Posted by AmericanMuscleCars

How much did you pay for your car? Oh yeah, that much.

Thanks for the contribution. Glad to know that the cost of a ZL1 has something to do with a catch can.

Originally Posted by zfuzz

This has been posted several times on Camaro5 but it is worth posting one more time. LSA in a CTSV. I don't know how good the catch can in the video is but the amount it is catching is pretty scary.

Very interesting post. I have never seen that video before. Couple observations. The oil volume is a ton higher than would be expected if the CC captured a few ounces per 5000 mile interval. 2nd wonder what CC that is? Never seen a clear one.

Originally Posted by hognutz

I have seen tons of pictures with coated intercoolers. just search. that is why there is a can on my car.

2009 was the first year of this engine so it is not like there are tons of high milage cars out there. every engine will benifit though as engines don't run on oil. there is nothing bad about preventing oil from being ingested by the engine.

Can you post links to the coated intercoolers? I have only seen the same picture posted a ton of times.

I would bet their are some high mileage CTS-Vs. There are 2010 Camaros over 100K miles that were bought in '09. ('09 is four years ago. Hard to believe.) There was a post on this forum of a ZL1 owner with 30K+ on their car. (Ton of miles for a car less than 2 years old.) It would be interesting to tear into a group of 50+ mile LSAs to see the difference between those with a CC and those without.

Interesting posts guys.

Those with CC how much oil are you catching? Volume, interval, and driving style would be good to know.

[joes407]

i will try and drain mine today

[joes407]

actually since my rx catch can is so easy to drain i just ran out to the garage and drained it into this 500ml water bottle. the pic below shows the amount of oil i sucked into the can across 2 oil changes. im actually due for an oil change this week which will be the second one since i drained last. this includes at least 5 drag strip trips with at least 30 runs and im a very spirited driver to say the least on a daily basis.

[joes407]

keep in mind that i seated my rings well and i tend to see less oil in my can than people that followed the g.m break in. i have seen almost twice as much come from friends cars that followed the break in down to the last mile.

[911medic]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

I understand this is not related to oil changes. It is the same oil just the vapors that are recirculated from the PVC system into the intake track.

Playing devils advocate. When you cook your food you do not use air which is a great insulator you cook with oil that provides better heat transfer. I know many have said that the oil reduces the heat transfer of the intercooler but has anyone done a scientific study to prove it?

Two problems with these statements:

1) The stuff captured by the PCV system is not simply the "same oil" as what's in your crankcase, only aerosolized. It also contains combustion byproducts that blow by the rings, which can be a range of nastiness from simple unburned fuel to other more corrosive compounds. It also contains condensation that accumulates in the crankcase, especially when driven in cold environments.

2) The cooking analogy would need to be modified to repeatedly bake or congeal the oil/substances onto the cooking surface. Over time, this layer will become insulatory.

[PQ]

1st picture is my stock intake when I took it off for the Maggie. Oil dripped on me and I wondered where the **** it came from.

Second two pics are my ports when I removed it the first time and then the ports this week (few years later) having removed the Maggie to swap my oil sensor.

I did NOT clean the ports at any point. Not sure why there is not still dark oil burn but there is not. MUCH less oil get's into the ports to burn. And yet you can still see there is some as it dripped down the heads a bit.

Catch cans are a good thing.

Are they necessary? Maybe not stock. But if you put a PD blower on it I'd highly recommend it.

[PQ]

I"m guessing the oil burns more as a true vapor than a sludge build up.

[td195f]

Originally Posted by PQ

1st picture is my stock intake when I took it off for the Maggie. Oil dripped on me and I wondered where the **** it came from.

Second two pics are my ports when I removed it the first time and then the ports this week (few years later) having removed the Maggie to swap my oil sensor.

I did NOT clean the ports at any point. Not sure why there is not still dark oil burn but there is not. MUCH less oil get's into the ports to burn. And yet you can still see there is some as it dripped down the heads a bit.

Catch cans are a good thing.

Are they necessary? Maybe not stock. But if you put a PD blower on it I'd highly recommend it.

Attachment 526150

Attachment 526151

Attachment 526152

Interesting, based on the second picture I would say the spray pattern of the fuel injector definitely stays on the top side of the intake port. This would make sense as you want the fuel to spray directly at the intake valve and mix with the air in the port.
This is a good example of the kind of buildup that the PCV system will cause.
Was the first intake port picture before forced induction and the second after forced induction was added? What else was changed between the two pictures?
Looks to me like some reversion in the intake ports my be occurring. At the higher flow rates with a blower when the intake valve closes the air and fuel rebound back up the intake port more than a NA engine. The solvent action of the fuel that would drop out of suspension with the air might account for the cleaner ports.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by td195f

Interesting, based on the second picture I would say the spray pattern of the fuel injector definitely stays on the top side of the intake port. This would make sense as you want the fuel to spray directly at the intake valve and mix with the air in the port.
This is a good example of the kind of buildup that the PCV system will cause.
Was the first intake port picture before forced induction and the second after forced induction was added? What else was changed between the two pictures?
Looks to me like some reversion in the intake ports my be occurring. At the higher flow rates with a blower when the intake valve closes the air and fuel rebound back up the intake port more than a NA engine. The solvent action of the fuel that would drop out of suspension with the air might account for the cleaner ports.

The blower was the only thing added on top. I did add a cam later.

[djnice]

Originally Posted by joes407

actually since my rx catch can is so easy to drain i just ran out to the garage and drained it into this 500ml water bottle. the pic below shows the amount of oil i sucked into the can across 2 oil changes. im actually due for an oil change this week which will be the second one since i drained last. this includes at least 5 drag strip trips with at least 30 runs and im a very spirited driver to say the least on a daily basis.

How many miles between oil changes? What percent of oil do you is getting caught in the can?

I looked in my blower snout through the throttle body and there is plenty of oil and carbon in there for only 2300 miles on the car. I will see how the pictures turned out and post some.

And the factory cylinder doesn't have any oil. It must be tru that is for letting air into the system, just like a breather cap on the oil fill.