venturing in to researching suspension enhancements for a DD

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by RogerBzSS

So with the amount of detail to consume
And i appreciate all i mean all od the detail that i need rp consume is much appreciated!!!!! Thank you guys

My concern is investing $$$$ and having my car ride like a brick

I have herd this tends to happens from a few people, i have ro presume its all in the tune and setup

My goal is improved ride comfort and performance of a sport tuned suspension. When the pace of the ride or the right foot does its own thing the
Car sticks

What i dont want is to feel the minimum bumps turn in to body jareing hits aka brick syndrome! !!

Thanx again as i continue to research and consume

Roger

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

Roger,

I can eliminate all your concerns. Buy your suspension parts from Pedders. If you are not thrilled we'll find a way to get there or we'll refund you purchase price.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by PfadtRacing

Sure! You can think of it this way, if it's bolted to and moves relative to the control arm it's going to be considered unsprung weight. This includes everything attached to the control arm, for example the hub, brakes, wheel it's self, and mounting solution for the shock it's self. If it's bolted to or moves relative to the control arm it's going to be sprung weight, for example almost anything chassis side including driver, engine, subframe, and anything related to the upper mount and what ever is directly connected to the upper mount for the shock.

Take a look at this illustration and you can see a visual break down of a standard vs. inverted shock design. The blue parts are fixed to the chassis and are sprung weight, and the red parts are moving relative to the control arm and are considered unsprung weight. By moving to an inverted shock a large portion of heavy parts in the coilover assembly are moved to the sprung side. The internal components like the shaft piston are now unsprung, but that weight of those parts are pretty small compared to the entire body of the housing.

The inverted design also places the damper adjustment knob at the bottom of the shock which means no drilling or adding any other hardware to access the adjusters.

Our newest version of the Camaro Coilovers are likely going to use an aluminum housing which will significantly decrease unsprung weight.

So basically it's the difference in the weight between the shaft and the shaft housing.

Would anyone ever be able to tell the difference? Seems pretty negligible? Is it a key place for the negative effects of unsprung weight to happen? I'd think it would be in the rotating parts.

With shock travel so small, especially in a rigid set car, can it make that much difference?

[Higgs Boson]

When you are racing competitively it does make a difference. For track days and general screwing around, not so much.

I race NHRA/IHRA super stock and also race a shifter kart. a half pound of tire pressure makes a difference. a couple degrees of temperature makes a difference. we monitor density altitude constantly. etc.

The difference is always in the details.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

When you are racing competitively it does make a difference. For track days and general screwing around, not so much.

I race NHRA/IHRA super stock and also race a shifter kart. a half pound of tire pressure makes a difference. a couple degrees of temperature makes a difference. we monitor density altitude constantly. etc.

The difference is always in the details.

I can't imagine being that precise. Especially in a 2 ton Camaro. You guys who can tell the differences in those things are amazing to me.

I get the tires being on the track surface and the temps for running air but a pound of weight on a strut seems like a pretty small thing.

I guess my thing is that you'd NEVER EVER notice it unless you were on a track and a pro driver. And I'd also assume that even a pro wouldn't notice. If you can notice THAT then I'd hate to know your opinions on the whole heavy car in general.

[JusticePete]

Our on track drivers don't see to notice any difference



The L/28 still has AC, a full interior and all the amenities you find on any SS including a sunroof. It is one hellaciously fast STREET CAR. If we wanted to take the L/28 on a diet we would start with a hard top replacing the sunroof and the shed the weight from the worst possible location. If we wanted to build a race car, we would be counting every ounce. Pedders never set out to be the fastest 5th Gen suspension. We set out to provide the optimal balance between comfort and performance. Our clients feel we met that goal so we decided to see just how well we perform on track.

The OPTIMA Qualifying events are open events. Anyone that would like to show off their street car is welcome to come. From what we have see in 2009, 2011 and 2012 Pedderised 5th Gens are the fastest. Now with Lingenfelter power we are even faster. Who knows, we may decide to brings a stripped down caged club racer just to see how fast we are

[Cuda7050]

Pete, for about the same price Pedders offers the Pace Car Package and the Track 1 package. Could you compare and contrast each of these packages under two scenarios? First; what should the consumer expect of each package under daily driving conditions and the second scenario; what should the driver expect of each package at a HPDE? I am particularly interested in how these packages work with FE4 suspensions.

[JusticePete]

Pace Car Z

160086 Camaro Ext Xa Adjust Coilover
CAMAROSWAYCONV1 Camaro ZL1 Conversion Low
EP1200 Camaro Rear Sub Frame Insert
EP6579 Camaro Fnt Radius Rod HD Ins

Track I

220032 Camaro Front Lowering Coils
220033 Camaro Rear Lowering Coils
CAMAROSOLUTIONB 27mm F & R bars & 4 links
EP1167HD Zeta Rear HD Diff Mounts
EP1201 Camaro Rear Sub Frame Repl
EP2112 Zeta Steering Rack/Pinion Mnt
EP6579 Camaro Fnt Radius Rod HD Ins
EP7264 Zeta Rear Lower Control Arm In
EP7322 Camaro Rear Upper Control Arm
EP7323 Zeta Rear Trailing ArmToe Link
PDUSACAMFULL Camaro Full Alignment Kit


There are four main differences.

Lowering coils vs Coilovers
Full Bush Kit vs Foundational Inserts
27mm Rear Bar vs Z Style 32mm Bar
Pedders Alignment Bolts vs OE Alignment Bolts

You are driving a 12 with the FE4 correct?

If you have the FE4 you already have improved front sub-frame bushes which work exceptionally well with our inserts. Your rear mounts near the hub Z style FE4 bar is a very good bar. Moving to an inside mount 27mm adjustable bar is a wash at best. The lowering coils will work well with the improved damper map on the FE4 OEM struts, but I'll take a 300 psi set of adjustable damping and adjustable height coilovers all day long as superior in handling and ride quality.

For a few more dollars the Pace Car Z will ride and handle better because of the coilovers and rear Z style bar.

[Cuda7050]

I do have a '12 with FE4 suspension.

It sounds like you would would recommend the Pace Car Z package over the Track 1 package for the daily driver that only ocassionally participates in HPD events.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by PQ

I can't imagine being that precise. Especially in a 2 ton Camaro. You guys who can tell the differences in those things are amazing to me.

I get the tires being on the track surface and the temps for running air but a pound of weight on a strut seems like a pretty small thing.

I guess my thing is that you'd NEVER EVER notice it unless you were on a track and a pro driver. And I'd also assume that even a pro wouldn't notice. If you can notice THAT then I'd hate to know your opinions on the whole heavy car in general.

Well, that's why the 5th gen is a street car and not my race car, lol. From the performance nutty side of my mind, I hate the 5th gen. From the other side, I love to drive it to the office and lake and stuff. It's very comfortable, looks unique, I really like the car. I won't be going crazy with it though, I even like the nice quiet exhaust but still has a nice tone.

I am so done with the long tubes to work mentality. I don't need win rush hour anymore. Of course it helps to have track toys....

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Cuda7050

I do have a '12 with FE4 suspension.

It sounds like you would would recommend the Pace Car Z package over the Track 1 package for the daily driver that only occasionally participates in HPD events.

That new style bar combined with the inserts and coilovers will handle better than the Track I. That new rear bar geometry has changed the game.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

Of course it helps to have track toys....

Mine has to dub for a track toy and a DD. As does the OPs.

Of course I'll never notice a pound in my shocks either.

[PfadtRacing]

Originally Posted by PQ

I can't imagine being that precise. Especially in a 2 ton Camaro. You guys who can tell the differences in those things are amazing to me.

I get the tires being on the track surface and the temps for running air but a pound of weight on a strut seems like a pretty small thing.

I guess my thing is that you'd NEVER EVER notice it unless you were on a track and a pro driver. And I'd also assume that even a pro wouldn't notice. If you can notice THAT then I'd hate to know your opinions on the whole heavy car in general.

Anything you can do to help efficiency, even in a system not terribly efficient is going to be a good thing. Less unsprung weight is a great thing no matter how you look at it. Extremely noticeable during street driving or not this is just one feature that helps separate our product from other coilover products out there. The use of an inverted shock is just one small example of how having an actual dedicated engineering staff helps improve our products. With a laundry list of unique features our Coilover packages are an excellent choice for the Camaro.

An inverted shock also places the adjuster mechanism at the bottom of the shock. Whether you're racing or not if you're making adjustments to the shock you know you're not going to need to drill holes in the rear deck area or install an extension to reach your adjuster mechanism, because the shock is inverted. That's something that hopefully everyone can appreciate.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by PfadtRacing

Anything you can do to help efficiency, even in a system not terribly efficient is going to be a good thing. Less unsprung weight is a great thing no matter how you look at it. Extremely noticeable during street driving or not this is just one feature that helps separate our product from other coilover products out there. The use of an inverted shock is just one small example of how having an actual dedicated engineering staff helps improve our products. With a laundry list of unique features our Coilover packages are an excellent choice for the Camaro.

An inverted shock also places the adjuster mechanism at the bottom of the shock. Whether you're racing or not if you're making adjustments to the shock you know you're not going to need to drill holes in the rear deck area or install an extension to reach your adjuster mechanism, because the shock is inverted. That's something that hopefully everyone can appreciate.

Actually you do still have to get under the car to do it. At least to reach behind the wheel. Easier than at the top of the assembly maybe but not that much more. Especially for the big guys. It could be argued that having the ability to put the adjusters in the trunk area is a bonus.

Drilling holes is quick and easy and most have their installers do it anyway.

Is there a way to set up yours to not have to reach under the car?

Of course most people will never adjust theirs for DD anyway.