Questions about Torque Management-LS3 Manual - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

f5journal · 04-09-2013, 08:42 AM

Can anyone tell me definitively whether TM is in play during the initial start-up Open Loop operation of the vehicle.

No guessing allowed

Iam Broke · 04-09-2013, 09:35 AM

There are no TM vs ERT (engine run time) tables (so I won't guess) but why wouldn't they be in play all the time?

Until it's warmed up in CL I wouldn't want to whup on it anyway. I try to wait until the oil is over 200*f.

When you go WOT it's open loop anyway.

There are closed loop vs ERT tables & factors upon startup.

DuskSS · 04-09-2013, 09:45 AM

I know after they were removed via tune the car is a whole different animal for sure.

f5journal · 04-09-2013, 11:29 AM

OK, the point of my question has to do with the way my car runs in open loop vrs closed. It has incredibly more throttle response and spins the tires easily until it goes into closed loop.

So, although I have a JRE tune in which I am pretty sure TM is dialed down some, I am wondering if the open loop difference in performance might be that there is no TM during that period.

Iambroke, I asked a leading question on another thread where you had posted HP screen shot of TM table..I'm looking to be able to tweek a few things myself.

aj2ssrs · 04-09-2013, 11:37 AM

GM limits torque to 280 ft lbs at 3,000 rpm and lower in all gears. I know Ted disabled this when he tuned mine.

Iam Broke · 04-09-2013, 11:50 AM

How fast does it go into closed loop? Mine only takes a minute. There's a table for that.

It may be tuned richer in OL. Closed loop it controls at stoich.

f5journal · 04-09-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iam Broke

How fast does it go into closed loop? Mine only takes a minute. There's a table for that.

It may be tuned richer in OL. Closed loop it controls at stoich.

I cannot say for sure, but it seems like about 4-5 minutes. I can get out of the neighborhood, and nail it on the main 2-lane road. By the time I make the next turn about a mile or so up the road it is a different car.

I kept thinking it was all cold tires, but that is bull. There is something happening in the open loop that needs to be changed in my tune (I think)

And TM/throttle delay, something similar appears to be it to me.

Iam Broke · 04-09-2013, 06:15 PM

I guess you better ask Ted about it then.

f5journal · 04-10-2013, 08:48 AM

will do ..thanks all

Bucci · 04-10-2013, 09:18 PM

Apoloigies for not understanding, but what is the loop that you are talkng about?

Surely my car feels like it has a tremoundous amount of power at times and at other times much less...

Have been wondering about it when i came across your thread.

chef-beavis · 04-10-2013, 10:23 PM

The car runs in what is referred to as Open Loop until it reaches certain parameters including engine temp. The O2 sensors feedback is not controlling the mixture via the ECM. The car runs on a preset table for fuel and spark that was programmed into tue ECM.

When all of the criteria are met the O2 sensors provide feedback and this allows the ECM to adjust fuel and other things live, based upon the feedback. This is called Closed Loop, as the engine is being adjusted real time based on measurements relative to its performance.

Bucci · 04-11-2013, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chef-beavis

The car runs in what is referred to as Open Loop until it reaches certain parameters including engine temp. The O2 sensors feedback is not controlling the mixture via the ECM. The car runs on a preset table for fuel and spark that was programmed into tue ECM.

When all of the criteria are met the O2 sensors provide feedback and this allows the ECM to adjust fuel and other things live, based upon the feedback. This is called Closed Loop, as the engine is being adjusted real time based on measurements relative to its performance.

Many thanks for the explanation!

I had no idea... will do some research and get up to speed...

Thanks Again!

grocerygetter · 04-11-2013, 10:58 PM

becareful beating on a cold engine. I try to limit rpms and throttle input until you are up to running temps. many things such as valve springs etc will thank you.

MA2010SS · 04-12-2013, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

becareful beating on a cold engine. I try to limit rpms and throttle input until you are up to running temps. many things such as valve springs etc will thank you.

Agree you shouldn't be running a car hard when the car is cold

04-09-2013, 08:42 AM	#1
f5journal Senior Camaro Fanatic Drives: 2011 SS/RS manual - White Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: aiken, sc Posts: 1,980	Questions about Torque Management-LS3 Manual Can anyone tell me definitively whether TM is in play during the initial start-up Open Loop operation of the vehicle. No guessing allowed __________________ Former '68 and '69 Z/28 Owner...........Now sporting around in a 2011 RS/SS with........Kooks LT's and cats, JRE tune, CAI, scoop, ZL1 Bumper conversion, custom ZL-1 grille, halo harness, Painted silver stripes, GM GFX, black painted lower edge of skirts and rear bumper. MGW shifter.....and now a 3.91 1LE diff

04-09-2013, 09:35 AM	#2
Iam Broke PHAT B33 Drives: 2012 TF3 Camaro 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Dark of the Moon Posts: 1,460 View My Garage	There are no TM vs ERT (engine run time) tables (so I won't guess) but why wouldn't they be in play all the time? Until it's warmed up in CL I wouldn't want to whup on it anyway. I try to wait until the oil is over 200f. When you go WOT it's open loop anyway. There are closed loop vs ERT tables & factors upon startup. __________________ Another 1 of 371 '12 T3 LS3 M6's built. Last edited by Iam Broke; 04-09-2013 at 09:46 AM.*

04-09-2013, 09:45 AM	#3
DuskSS Bayou City Muscle Cars Drives: 2013 2SS Dusk Edition Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,443	I know after they were removed via tune the car is a whole different animal for sure. __________________ 2013 2SS Dusk Edition Lethal Racing Stage V PER 418ci Forged LS3 530/520 SAE

04-09-2013, 11:29 AM	#4
f5journal Senior Camaro Fanatic Drives: 2011 SS/RS manual - White Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: aiken, sc Posts: 1,980	OK, the point of my question has to do with the way my car runs in open loop vrs closed. It has incredibly more throttle response and spins the tires easily until it goes into closed loop. So, although I have a JRE tune in which I am pretty sure TM is dialed down some, I am wondering if the open loop difference in performance might be that there is no TM during that period. Iambroke, I asked a leading question on another thread where you had posted HP screen shot of TM table..I'm looking to be able to tweek a few things myself. __________________ Former '68 and '69 Z/28 Owner...........Now sporting around in a 2011 RS/SS with........Kooks LT's and cats, JRE tune, CAI, scoop, ZL1 Bumper conversion, custom ZL-1 grille, halo harness, Painted silver stripes, GM GFX, black painted lower edge of skirts and rear bumper. MGW shifter.....and now a 3.91 1LE diff

04-09-2013, 11:37 AM	#5
aj2ssrs Drives: IOM 2SS/RS Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North NJ Posts: 192	GM limits torque to 280 ft lbs at 3,000 rpm and lower in all gears. I know Ted disabled this when he tuned mine. __________________ ADM race intake, Dynatech lt headers w/hi-flo cats, Jannetty Racing dyno tune, VMax CNC ported TB, MGW short throw shifter, Elite Engineering catch can

04-09-2013, 11:50 AM	#6
Iam Broke PHAT B33 Drives: 2012 TF3 Camaro 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Dark of the Moon Posts: 1,460 View My Garage	How fast does it go into closed loop? Mine only takes a minute. There's a table for that. It may be tuned richer in OL. Closed loop it controls at stoich. __________________ Another 1 of 371 '12 T3 LS3 M6's built.

04-09-2013, 06:15 PM	#8
Iam Broke PHAT B33 Drives: 2012 TF3 Camaro 2SS/RS M6 Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Dark of the Moon Posts: 1,460 View My Garage	I guess you better ask Ted about it then. __________________ Another 1 of 371 '12 T3 LS3 M6's built.

04-10-2013, 08:48 AM	#9
f5journal Senior Camaro Fanatic Drives: 2011 SS/RS manual - White Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: aiken, sc Posts: 1,980	will do ..thanks all __________________ Former '68 and '69 Z/28 Owner...........Now sporting around in a 2011 RS/SS with........Kooks LT's and cats, JRE tune, CAI, scoop, ZL1 Bumper conversion, custom ZL-1 grille, halo harness, Painted silver stripes, GM GFX, black painted lower edge of skirts and rear bumper. MGW shifter.....and now a 3.91 1LE diff

04-10-2013, 09:18 PM	#10
Bucci Bucci Drives: 2010 2SS M6 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Ohio Posts: 190 View My Garage	Apoloigies for not understanding, but what is the loop that you are talkng about? Surely my car feels like it has a tremoundous amount of power at times and at other times much less... Have been wondering about it when i came across your thread. __________________ Bucci

04-10-2013, 10:23 PM	#11
chef-beavis Drives: IOM 2013 2SS/RS, Greenie, 06 FXSTBi Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Turd Town, WI Posts: 1,585	The car runs in what is referred to as Open Loop until it reaches certain parameters including engine temp. The O2 sensors feedback is not controlling the mixture via the ECM. The car runs on a preset table for fuel and spark that was programmed into tue ECM. When all of the criteria are met the O2 sensors provide feedback and this allows the ECM to adjust fuel and other things live, based upon the feedback. This is called Closed Loop, as the engine is being adjusted real time based on measurements relative to its performance.

04-11-2013, 10:58 PM	#13
grocerygetter instigator Drives: 2020 6.2 Trail Boss, 2022 XC90 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: 72034 Posts: 3,979 View My Garage	becareful beating on a cold engine. I try to limit rpms and throttle input until you are up to running temps. many things such as valve springs etc will thank you. __________________ -John S.