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Old 01-09-2012, 06:48 PM   #99
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Well, I won't comment on the soap opera going on here! I'll surf the channel tho.

Hey, here is a question I have. First, an acknowledgment. I acknowledge that driving a stick generally takes more skill than driving an automatic. A stick also, puts the driver at one" with the car in many ways. Provides "more fun" when in a "stick" environment (not traffic). Now, F1 drivers use the AUTO's right? I may not be "technically right", but you know what I mean. They use the Paddle shifts on the steering wheel.

That said: Doesn't it actually take MORE SKILL to drive an automatic and produce the same control as the stick? It may be a matter of tuning? Training? Timing? Don't know, but it seems to me that if one gave it enough time and training, they could make the car emulate the same performance as a stick - while gaining the stick advantages in other times like straightaways and such. OK........... say what you will, but I'm not going to hold my ankles.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:08 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE View Post
I'd say there's a mess of folks in this Section who, through time and recent announcements, have remained consistent in their desire for a Z28.
Well said, sir.

As to this lil cadre' of ZEE Zealots being "exclusive", I don't believe that is the case, frankly. We HAVE meandered around the topic of a ZEE, the potential content such a car SHOULD (in OUR collective opinions) possess (and what it SHOULDN'T be). We've built Business Cases, discussed the pros 'n cons of what readily-available GM parts 'n pieces could be utilized, quickly, to create such a fond iteration. For months 'n months.

1) Does "our" version make sense? Is it "buildable"? Consensus is, engine specs aside, YES.

2) Could "another" version be considered? Of course.

3) Can "we" offer "our" opinion of "your" opinion? Expect it...

4) Have "you" read what has already been discussed here? No? Well, then, take a few moments and educate yourself on what has already transpired...please. Just as you would/should on any other sustained topic on any other Forum, before jumping in with both feet...

It's called ...and we promise to share that, as well, if offered...

"We" don't troll this idea/version around other sub-Sections of this esteemed Site, nor should we have to be subjected to antagonized trolling because we happen to believe STRONGLY in our vision and version of a Gen-5 ZEE.

Thanks, one and all. Sincerely...
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:14 AM   #101
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IMO it should be a light weight 427 track ready Camaro. Kinda like a mini Z06.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:37 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by htron50 View Post
Well, I won't comment on the soap opera going on here! I'll surf the channel tho.

Hey, here is a question I have. First, an acknowledgment. I acknowledge that driving a stick generally takes more skill than driving an automatic. A stick also, puts the driver at one" with the car in many ways. Provides "more fun" when in a "stick" environment (not traffic). Now, F1 drivers use the AUTO's right? I may not be "technically right", but you know what I mean. They use the Paddle shifts on the steering wheel.

That said: Doesn't it actually take MORE SKILL to drive an automatic and produce the same control as the stick? It may be a matter of tuning? Training? Timing? Don't know, but it seems to me that if one gave it enough time and training, they could make the car emulate the same performance as a stick - while gaining the stick advantages in other times like straightaways and such. OK........... say what you will, but I'm not going to hold my ankles.
The manual is harder to drive at speed, considerably more hand-foot-eye coordination.

The paddle shift no-clutch manuals, or total manual control auto's are an advantage.

The problem is with an auto that waits to downshift 1/3 way into the corner while braking, or deciding it needs to downshift while coming out of a corner hard.

Both of the above scenarios upset the suspension when you need it the most stable.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:49 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Well said, sir.

As to this lil cadre' of ZEE Zealots being "exclusive", I don't believe that is the case, frankly. We HAVE meandered around the topic of a ZEE, the potential content such a car SHOULD (in OUR collective opinions) possess (and what it SHOULDN'T be). We've built Business Cases, discussed the pros 'n cons of what readily-available GM parts 'n pieces could be utilized, quickly, to create such a fond iteration. For months 'n months.

1) Does "our" version make sense? Is it "buildable"? Consensus is, engine specs aside, YES.

2) Could "another" version be considered? Of course.

3) Can "we" offer "our" opinion of "your" opinion? Expect it...

4) Have "you" read what has already been discussed here? No? Well, then, take a few moments and educate yourself on what has already transpired...please. Just as you would/should on any other sustained topic on any other Forum, before jumping in with both feet...

It's called ...and we promise to share that, as well, if offered...

"We" don't troll this idea/version around other sub-Sections of this esteemed Site, nor should we have to be subjected to antagonized trolling because we happen to believe STRONGLY in our vision and version of a Gen-5 ZEE.

Thanks, one and all. Sincerely...
Good summary Lowdown....not trying to draw any AAA or Sam's here please, or perpetuate any ugly argument by any means, but, you are correct. Having said that, let's all get back to friendly discussion and healthy debate...being mindfull of courtesy and respect towards others above all.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:09 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
The manual is harder to drive at speed, considerably more hand-foot-eye coordination.

The paddle shift no-clutch manuals, or total manual control auto's are an advantage.

The problem is with an auto that waits to downshift 1/3 way into the corner while braking, or deciding it needs to downshift while coming out of a corner hard.

Both of the above scenarios upset the suspension when you need it the most stable.
Non-scientific observations:

I have a good friend from Switzerland who, in '99, bought an Auto-trans'd Camaro SS and entered it in the One Lap of America as a Brand New, unmodified car. Finished 19th, Overall.

Fast-forward to 2010, when he bought an MN6 '10 SS...and finished 17th, Overall. Unmodded.

I can confirm the intervening years have seen a substantial raising of the bar in the One Lap of both driving talent and vehicle preparation/ability...

The single most beneficial mod one can make to their car? SEAT TIME. The next most important ingredient? Put someone in the car who can actually DRIVE!
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:11 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Good summary Lowdown....not trying to draw any AAA or Sam's here please, or perpetuate any ugly argument by any means, but, you are correct. Having said that, let's all get back to friendly discussion and healthy debate...being mindfull of courtesy and respect towards others above all.
Like Solomon said, "There's nothing new under the sun"... the Z/28 has been debated since the 5th gen was announced.

Here's a post from 2008... still applies today.
Quote:
OK, Stop bashing people for posting threads here. Trust me the Mods will review every one and if deemed inappropriate we edit, or delete.

I agree there are plenty of Z28 or bust or get over it threads out there. The same can be said for weight, and LS3 vs L99, or turbos vs superchargers, or blue vs blue, or auto vs manual...

Stop being so pissy with each other. If you don't like the thread topic, send a PM to a mod or leave the thread alone. Obviously we want you to argue and debate the topics. But, let the Mods determine what threads belong and which don't.

This concludes your moderator public service announcement.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=25

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Old 01-12-2012, 11:40 AM   #106
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Show it...get it...especially if swimming in recently uncharted waters... Recon is your friend, too.

"When in Rome..."
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Old 01-12-2012, 05:44 PM   #107
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Any news, anything at all, anyone??
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:01 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Good summary Lowdown....not trying to draw any AAA or Sam's here please, or perpetuate any ugly argument by any means, but, you are correct. Having said that, let's all get back to friendly discussion and healthy debate...being mindfull of courtesy and respect towards others above all.
I agree with that whole heartedly OldScoolCamaro! It is very possible to have good discussions and there is no need to interject personalities into the discussion. There is a wealth of good information in these threads, we just need to remember to not let our passion overshadow the discussions.
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:38 PM   #109
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I always hated how with the 4th gens, GM made optioned "Z28s" into SS Camaros... that was ass backwards... and because of that NOW there is a generation of Camaro owners that think the SS is the top model(well, next to ZL1), its not... and GM's blunder with the 4th gen is the cause of that

what do I want to see out of a Z/28? keep a Naturally aspirated 6.2L in it, give it a more aggressive cam, 6-speed manual only(even as a guy with a L99 I say that), put it on a diet a little with some carbon fiber pieces, and give it a tighter suspension... basically make a Boss 302 pit fighter

GM has been conservative with this 6.2L, unleash some more horses!

I mean their conservative nature is great for those of us who mod, but it leaves a lot on the table for factory backing
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:39 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SSRSinBama View Post
I always hated how with the 4th gens, GM made optioned "Z28s" into SS Camaros... that was ass backwards... and because of that NOW there is a generation of Camaro owners that think the SS is the top model(well, next to ZL1), its not... and GM's blunder with the 4th gen is the cause of that

what do I want to see out of a Z/28? keep a Naturally aspirated 6.2L in it, give it a more aggressive cam, 6-speed manual only(even as a guy with a L99 I say that), put it on a diet a little with some carbon fiber pieces, and give it a tighter suspension... basically make a Boss 302 pit fighter

GM has been conservative with this 6.2L, unleash some more horses!

I mean their conservative nature is great for those of us who mod, but it leaves a lot on the table for factory backing
Technically, you should be blaming SLP for that not GM. They're the ones that converted the 4th gen Z28's to SS.

End result is the same though
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:38 AM   #111
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Gee, to get the "full skinny" on how that happened, you'd need to get John Middlebrook, Jim Perkins, and Ed Hamburger sequestered in a room, together...
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Old 01-15-2012, 12:51 PM   #112
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Should be able to dust anyone at the stop lights, performance suspension for the corners, should be dark black with tinted windows if ya ask me :P
Also should have a sexy babe in the front seat
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