418 build still not where it needs to be...

[injector]

Originally Posted by Ravener

Still waiting on exact cam specs so I have hard data to start with. I'm annoyed that I have folks waiting for the info and I can't even get it myself...grrrr.

appreciate if you can update us when ever possible.. I'm planning to go the same route soon.


subscribed..

[Pro Stock John]

To rephrase what has already been said, ask yourself, what would it make if it peaked higher... I'd be thinking about an intake swap as long as you find (I don't have personal experience with LS3 FAST but with an LS2 FAST) an intake that can support the engine combo.

If not sure if the 2.5 pipes are big enough, drop the exhaust and dyno open headers. What mufflers? I'm too lazy to look.

[mtmtx]

[Ravener]

...still waiting on all cam specs...and yes this is unacceptable that it's taking a whole g-d week.

I spoke w/ a reputable "race shop" on recommendation from a member here and was told that the cam data I do have would be ok-ish for a STOCK cube LS3, but even then the exhaust lift is way to high in relation to intake. 235/250 .600/.640 is simply too small and certainly not optimal for a 418 that should have been set up to be somewhat aggressive.

I'll definitely get into the intake/exhaust side of things once I can get a lock on working the cam b.s. out. Still trying to get the cam card...calling again.

[injector]

Originally Posted by Ravener

...still waiting on all cam specs...and yes this is unacceptable that it's taking a whole g-d week.

I spoke w/ a reputable "race shop" on recommendation from a member here and was told that the cam data I do have would be ok-ish for a STOCK cube LS3, but even then the exhaust lift is way to high in relation to intake. 235/250 .600/.640 is simply too small and certainly not optimal for a 418 that should have been set up to be somewhat aggressive.

I'll definitely get into the intake/exhaust side of things once I can get a lock on working the cam b.s. out. Still trying to get the cam card...calling again.

Why not contacting pat g.. Not sure about the name but apparently he is famous for creating cam spec.. Checked his website $40 will get u a cam spec in 3 days

[Pro Stock John]

Your cam lift would be referencing the flow numbers of your ported heads.

FWIW, if your engine was built by LME you are in some good hands. Those guys are the ones that have been part of our racing program with the 315 DR car for almost 5 years.

May I respectully suggest that you share a list of all the details in a reply, so folks understand:

I see:

418 CID
11:1
12.6:1 AF on dyno
Ported Heads
2xx, 2xx cam 114
Headers
Cats?
2.5 Dual Exhaust
Kooks mufflers? Link? Chambered?
Stock LS3 intake?

[Ravener]

Your cam lift would be referencing the flow numbers of your ported heads.

FWIW, if your engine was built by LME you are in some good hands. Those guys are the ones that have been part of our racing program with the 315 DR car for almost 5 years.

May I respectully suggest that you share a list of all the details in a reply, so folks understand:

I see:

418 CID
11:1
12.6:1 AF on dyno
Ported Heads
2xx, 2xx cam 114
Headers
Cats?
2.5 Dual Exhaust
Kooks mufflers? Link? Chambered?
Stock LS3 intake?

So specs, now that I got em finally...
418 CID
11:1 cr
12.6:1 AF on mustang dyno
CNC Ported Heads (65cc combustion chambers)
234, 252 cam .628/.628 115+4 LSA
Kooks 1 3/4 to 1 7/8Headers stepped headers
Kooks hi-flo Cats (3" in/2.5" out)
2.5 Dual Exhaust
Kooks mufflers
Stock LS3 intake
ported TB
Vararam tune cai

Was told it was meant to maintain daily driver manners and decent reliability. I wanted a daily driver with aggressive track potential...not a grocery-getter.

So there it is...now to fix it...

[Anthony @ LG Motorsports]

Originally Posted by Ravener

Your cam lift would be referencing the flow numbers of your ported heads.

FWIW, if your engine was built by LME you are in some good hands. Those guys are the ones that have been part of our racing program with the 315 DR car for almost 5 years.


So specs, now that I got em finally...
418 CID
11:1 cr
12.6:1 AF on mustang dyno
CNC Ported Heads (65cc combustion chambers)
234, 252 cam .628/.628 115+4 LSA
Kooks 1 3/4 to 1 7/8Headers stepped headers
Kooks hi-flo Cats (3" in/2.5" out)
2.5 Dual Exhaust
Kooks mufflers
Stock LS3 intake
ported TB
Vararam tune cai

Was told it was meant to maintain daily driver manners and decent reliability. I wanted a daily driver with aggressive track potential...not a grocery-getter.

So there it is...now to fix it...

Exhaust is to small....that isn't helping anything. Even on stock displacement LS3's I have seen 15-20 hp at the rears by going to a full 3" exhaust on the cars.....given this is a larger engine and moving more air, it should make as much if not more so of a change.

LS3 vs FAST intake...yeah the 102/102 combo is going to show a bit more hp but it isn't going to add another 60 to it. I'm thinking 12-18 hp.

While yes that cam is a bit on the smaller side just looking at duration and lift numbers...if you want a more stock like driving cam don't let someone talk you into a 1" lift cam profile for it trying to make HP on a car that probably doesn't need it.

There is no reason why a mild cam setup on something like that shouldn't make 500/500 on a Dyno jet...yeah might be off on the Mustang.



Do keep this in mind...and I don't know what the car made before hand. If the only thing you did was go bigger in displacement pretty much the only thing you are going to change is torque. So say it made 440/400 before..it should now make 455/450 now. Typically stroker packages pick up 10-15 hp and 40-50 ft-lbs of torque given no other changes.

What would concern me about your numbers is the low torque number, for a 414/418 cu engine that is low.

[1977and2010]

Numbers aside, which do seem low btw. How's the car drive, compared to previous motor?

[Pro Stock John]

Originally Posted by Anthony @ LG Motorsports

Exhaust is to small....that isn't helping anything. Even on stock displacement LS3's I have seen 15-20 hp at the rears by going to a full 3" exhaust on the cars.....given this is a larger engine and moving more air, it should make as much if not more so of a change.

LS3 vs FAST intake...yeah the 102/102 combo is going to show a bit more hp but it isn't going to add another 60 to it. I'm thinking 12-18 hp.

While yes that cam is a bit on the smaller side just looking at duration and lift numbers...if you want a more stock like driving cam don't let someone talk you into a 1" lift cam profile for it trying to make HP on a car that probably doesn't need it.

There is no reason why a mild cam setup on something like that shouldn't make 500/500 on a Dyno jet...yeah might be off on the Mustang.

Do keep this in mind...and I don't know what the car made before hand. If the only thing you did was go bigger in displacement pretty much the only thing you are going to change is torque. So say it made 440/400 before..it should now make 455/450 now. Typically stroker packages pick up 10-15 hp and 40-50 ft-lbs of torque given no other changes.

What would concern me about your numbers is the low torque number, for a 414/418 cu engine that is low.

Yeah you need to detail out that list, and decide on your next move. Anthony's reply is one you should really pay attention he nailed it all.

If you are after 500RWHP, do 3" dual exhaust, cutouts if you want to know that the mufflers aren't a restriction, and have your tuner play with timing and tuning.

Don't be took quick to blame anyone IMO, I've have in the past and have regretted it. If someone wants you to stuff a 250/260 cam in there just be aware that bigger cams typically will not drive as nice down low.

Do you know what your timing was at WOT?

You could just go try a different tuner and drop the exhaust and cats and see what it does.

Most I ever made NA was 475RWHP years ago with a 422 LSX stroker, you were probably 11 back then.

Seriously though, you could just go to a tuner with a Dynojet and drop the exhaust and see what it does open headers. You'd know (1) what is does on the dynojet (I bet it picks up at least 10rwhp for that), and (2) and know if open headers helps (and it should noticeably). If those mufflers are chambered, they can hurt dyno numbers a lot. you could even dyno with the mufflers off.

[Ravener]

If you are after 500RWHP, do 3" dual exhaust, cutouts if you want to know that the mufflers aren't a restriction, and have your tuner play with timing and tuning.

Yep, it's on the to-do list.

Don't be took quick to blame anyone IMO, I've have in the past and have regretted it. If someone wants you to stuff a 250/260 cam in there just be aware that bigger cams typically will not drive as nice down low.

I agree, and I want folks to understand that the builder does terrific work...it's just in this case the cam is too timid for what I want from the car. Reduced manners is fine to a point as I have certain expectations out of the car at the track. We were both anticipating over 500 rwhp on his miserly dyno so it was a disappointment, and we need to correct the situation.

Do you know what your timing was at WOT?

27 degrees @ WOT

Most I ever made NA was 475RWHP years ago with a 422 LSX stroker, you were probably 11 back then.

LOL, assuming you're talking about the LS series from 97' on, I was just shy of 30 back then.

[Pro Stock John]

Yeah I was just kidding on the age, no idea how old you are.

So you can:

1) retune as is, drop the mufflers, the whole exhaust. 27 degrees WOT and 12.6:1 AFR sounds decent though. But if the mufflers are not straight-through they can be a significant restriction, and I've seen cars pick up 20rwhp with an engine like yours. Find a pic for us, can you see through the muffler?

2) Sure you will pick up from 3.00 dual exhaust + straight thru mufflers.

3) Have to research whether a FAST 102 setup will keep your combo from dying off where it does now.

4) Bigger cam can make more power, do you mind if the idle is even more aggressive and lopey?

[94guy]

go run the car first

[Frans96ss]

Originally Posted by Ravener

Yep, it's on the to-do list.

Give us a call if you wanna throw it on the dyno and drop the exh.