[motorhead]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

folks like me...lol, coming out of the woodwork...lol. I've posted in quite a few of them.

I'm not saying the raw numbers are BS, i'm saying they are dumb numbers...they don't really mean much, other than to provide the drama that they do each and every month.

And what I'm saying about the OP is a bit of tongue in cheek, I know he's been doing this every month. I do find it odd that it is the only thing he does though...it's kinda strange to me, it's like... post the drama thread and sit back and watch the "Camaro guys" go all nuts.

I've been pretty consistent each time i've posted on any one of these FAKE NEWS threads (again, tongue in cheek), and that is - the numbers are fairly useless as they don't tell the whole story, and BTW, even if they did...WHO F'ing cares!!!??? does it make your car not cool anymore if it's last in sales of these three?

And BTW I think this part of your post is funny "...Camaro isn't winning..." I'm picturing Charlie Sheen right now...

Like I said. There were no complainers about the numbers being "fake" or "dumb" as you say when the Camaro's numbers were higher. I find that funny. BTW, I guessing you care, and I do too. We both have posted in these threads. Happy a great Friday!!

[MEDISIN]

Snapshot of retail sales and ATP's for July and YTD. Mustang edged Camaro retail sales for July and all three saw ATP's dip slightly. Camaro still ahead YTD both sales and ATP.

Retail ATP's July 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,578
Challenger: $37,301
Mustang: $35,653

Retail Sales July 2017
Mustang: 4,592
Camaro: 4,525
Challenger: 3,786

Retail ATP's YTD 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $40,011
Challenger: $37,299
Mustang: $36,214

Retail Sales YTD 2017
Camaro: 38,264
Mustang: 34,935
Challenger: 27,488

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

Snapshot of retail sales and ATP's for July and YTD. Mustang edged Camaro retail sales for July and all three saw ATP's dip slightly.

Camaro still ahead YTD both sales and ATP.

[R.C. Collins]

Xpost

[hotlap]

Thank you for the perspective MEDESIN.

Originally Posted by newmoon

IMO the problem with the 6th Gen is people just don't care for it period.

[Number 3]

Just to level set everyone, unless you know the investment GM is trying cover and the total cost of production, including piece price you have no clue who is more profitable.

Again this has nothing to do with what is clearly, until 2018, the better performing car. But when you resort to GM speak and refer to retail sales and ATP you at least have to understand that only matters when you understand the rest of the financials.

[camaro5]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Just to level set everyone, unless you know the investment GM is trying cover and the total cost of production, including piece price you have no clue who is more profitable.

Again this has nothing to do with what is clearly, until 2018, the better performing car. But when you resort to GM speak and refer to retail sales and ATP you at least have to understand that only matters when you understand the rest of the financials.

We don't have that info and never will. If you had the numbers, black Suburbans would wisk you away in the middle of the night.

That does not mean we will not validate the various measurements we DO have available.

Retail sales is world speak, not GM speak.

There are retail sales of anything, and wholesale sales too.

Which would you want? Minimal unit profit, but volume leader? Not me.

Primitive auto production production volumes, dumping excess on rental car lots for a year-

Then they hit the retail market to further lower resale and saturate an already saturated inventory.

New GM is trying something new - their profits say it's working.

If anyone can get the production cost of any GM car - let us know.

Until then, Camaro is the retail sales leader!

Thanks to Medisin

ps - 3 - I want you to get a Camaro with a golf clubbable trunk, and windows we can see out of - keep the faith.

[camaro5]

Pony sad, Camaro happy!





https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...phone-problem?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Just to level set everyone, unless you know the investment GM is trying cover and the total cost of production, including piece price you have no clue who is more profitable.

Again this has nothing to do with what is clearly, until 2018, the better performing car. But when you resort to GM speak and refer to retail sales and ATP you at least have to understand that only matters when you understand the rest of the financials.

No shit Sherlock. Just to "level set" you... The only relevance of retail/ATP is to show what people are buying/paying to provide balance to the endless "people don't like Camaro" statements.

You know GM is deliberately avoiding fleet sales and no one is saying GM is thrilled with the sales volume of the Alpha triplets (or any other coupe/sedan). It does however look like Alpha2 will give Camaro and the CT's another shot. We'll be rooting for them to succeed.

Until 2018? Have you seen anything beyond a vague zero to 60 time or are you just hopeful?

[90503]

To me it looked like they kept their heads in the sand for a long time regarding Cadillac sales....all the while it was supposed to be the Camaro on thin ice...

The Caddie's higher price tag didn't save them....The Camaro was supposedly riding on the back of the Alpha/Cadillac assembly line....look how that turned out...

Instead of non-stop criticism of Camaros sales numbers, it ends up being one of GMs bright spots....

Camaro price-wise, design-wise, sales-wise (retail especially),....well done.

If the 7th Gen changes things up, great!...Can't wait to see what they surprise us with.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by hotlap

No shit Sherlock. Just to "level set" you... The only relevance of retail/ATP is to show what people are buying/paying to provide balance to the endless "people don't like Camaro" statements.

You know GM is deliberately avoiding fleet sales and no one is saying GM is thrilled with the sales volume of the Alpha triplets (or any other coupe/sedan). It does however look like Alpha2 will give Camaro and the CT's another shot. We'll be routing for them to succeed.

Until 2018? Have you seen anything beyond a vague zero to 60 time or are you just hopeful?

The issue isn't who is paying how much. One of the complaints on this site over and over again is the reason the car isn't selling is the price is too high. So of course the ATP is going to be higher.

My worry, and apparently no one else's, is simply if GM doesn't make a profit on the Camaro they will invest in something that does.

The reason GM is holding back on fleet sales is a bigger strategy than simply keeping ATP high. It's for overall profit.

GM is focused on return on invested capital. And if they can turn a bigger profit without the Camaro, they will. It's why they've all but left Europe and have abandoned India. They've been frighteningly clear.

Of course we don't have any knowledge on the new Corevette and GM may simply be slotting the Camaro in at lower volumes and higher prices as they further take the Corvette up market. This may be playing out exactly as they planned.

Also, GM has been clear that fighting it out for scraps at lower and entry level prices isn't a profitable game either.

Chasing volume can be very expensive if you are doing it with price and rebates.

And yes, I've heard a few things that would indicate that unless GM has a HP bump coming, we will effectively be close to parity with the 18 Mustang.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The issue isn't who is paying how much. One of the complaints on this site over and over again is the reason the car isn't selling is the price is too high. So of course the ATP is going to be higher.

My worry, and apparently no one else's, is simply if GM doesn't make a profit on the Camaro they will invest in something that does.

The reason GM is holding back on fleet sales is a bigger strategy than simply keeping ATP high. It's for overall profit.

GM is focused on return on invested capital. And if they can turn a bigger profit without the Camaro, they will. It's why they've all but left Europe and have abandoned India. They've been frighteningly clear.

Of course we don't have any knowledge on the new Corevette and GM may simply be slotting the Camaro in at lower volumes and higher prices as they further take the Corvette up market. This may be playing out exactly as they planned.

Also, GM has been clear that fighting it out for scraps at lower and entry level prices isn't a profitable game either.

Chasing volume can be very expensive if you are doing it with price and rebates.

And yes, I've heard a few things that would indicate that unless GM has a HP bump coming, we will effectively be close to parity with the 18 Mustang.

This^^^^ would put us on the same line of thinking. Alpha2 will be another swing at the segment. They need all three to be lower volume successes for any of them to survive. Average people want SUV's. RWD performance car are aimed at a different set of buyers. If generations become increasingly dispassionate about their cars, this segment will disappear.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Number 3

The issue isn't who is paying how much. One of the complaints on this site over and over again is the reason the car isn't selling is the price is too high. So of course the ATP is going to be higher.

lol...wut?....I don't know why this "complaint" is even considered valid, as saying it isn't selling is blatantly false...

Are you calling Medisin's retail sales numbers a lie?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 90503

lol...wut?....I don't know why this "complaint" is even considered valid, as saying it isn't selling is blatantly false...

Are you calling Medisin's retail sales numbers a lie?

Add that the 2018 Mustang will be more expensive than the Camaro