CNN: Camaro: From sketchpad to street - The rebirth of a muscle car ...

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

how hard is it to cut the sheet metal open?! it wouldn't cost very much to make these parts function al, and if done correctly it might actually save them money in material. the metal cut out of the vents can be melted down and reused. i'm with oldtimer. do it right boys or don't do it at all...

I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I think its is less expensive to add material to a body panel die than it is to cut away. If I'm not mistaken, something like the vent slots would have to be cut out after the quarter panels are complete. I don't think they can build the open vents into the die itself. So eventhough there is less materieal in the final version, That second step of cutting them out is more expensive and you can't recycle the pieces you cut out. So that is lost material as well.

I'm sure Camero or 3Whiterag can clarify if I'm off my rocker here.

[Tran]

What a good read. Loved seeing all the photos from design to testing!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS

how hard is it to cut the sheet metal open?! it wouldn't cost very much to make these parts function al, and if done correctly it might actually save them money in material. the metal cut out of the vents can be melted down and reused. i'm with oldtimer. do it right boys or don't do it at all...

The price of scrap steel is around $0.15/lb. And they probably can't even cut 1 lb of steel out of both pannels. To punch out those vents, it would need to either have an insert or would need to be treated such that the sharp edge goes away. This would far exceed $0.15 per pannel. Figure if it takes a worker 2 min to do the extra work while on the assembly line, that would cost $0.50 - $1.00 for labour alone. Plus there are the added costs of the equipment to do it and a bunch of other thigns. The unit cost would be an extra couple bucks.

Lastly, just cutting them out does not make them functional. Truly functional vents would have duct work leading back to the brakes. To to the engineering on that, plus manufacturing costs, would make a fair differance in price.

[radz28]

Just how do you expect the vents to be cut? Yeah, it may be easy enough to modify a mold for the vents, however, how are you going to stabilize the sheetmetal in the die and keep it from deforming when being punched-out? With all due respect, I'm not sure you can appreciate the time and care it would take to make those real.

From another perspective, the body constantly goes through shudders and shakes, so how does one propose to keep those vents from turning into and developing into tears in the sheetmetal. I've seen a lot of bodywork at the shop I used to work at, and it ain't that simple.

What happens the first time someone opens their door into that area and bends the sheet out of that vent? You're going to have to add more weight and stiffening around those openings in order to give them any sort of strength.

Now, if that vent was just a large hole, that a separate vent assembly t could snap into, that would seem more plausible, but the idea that it would be cheap or easy to do this to sheetmetal and make it last is does not quite make sense to me...

JMHO.

[JustinZS]

Man that original concept sketch is hot. I'd say we haven't strayed THAT far from that eh.

[radz28]

It's pretty amazing that it has stayed that far; I think they've made the car actually look better than the sketch!

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by OldTimer

Look at bumblebee or the silver concept car and imagine them "without" the black accent the rear vents give them. They will not look anywhere as menacing as they do with them. It seems a small thing to ask for them to remain. The front vents under the fog lights are gone, the rear brake vents are gone, the smooth rear bumper is gone....... I dont want this car to turn out like most of the other "retro" updated cars. I always wanted a Camaro and have never owned one. This car can become an instant classic if it sets itself apart in all the subtle areas. It just does not deserve to have anything but real, functional parts.

Originally Posted by radz282003

Now, if that vent was just a large hole, that a separate vent assembly t could snap into, that would seem more plausible, but the idea that it would be cheap or easy to do this to sheetmetal and make it last is does not quite make sense to me...

JMHO.

I could live with this...depending on how the final peice looked and what it was made out of. Of course, I'd have to see what it would look like on the prepro before going with it, but it might work.

[radz28]

They did it on 'Stangs, and it wasn't too bad with the Cobra model. I'm not sure if I'd dig it, however, the faux vents the car has now isn't too much different in principle I guess. If it would be functional, I'd be totally down though.

[OldTimer]

I can live with "non functional" rear vents. Its really the look of the vents on the concept I would like to see them keep. I saw on another thread we are not going to be able to get the bumblebee color. That's what I was set to buy. I would even sacrifice going with a V6 if I can get the bumblbee color. Already bot the die cast metal bumblebee and have been admiring it daily for months. The new camaro is going to be beautiful, but, it is hard to accept something different when you have been fixated on the concept look for soooooooo long and set your mind on which one is going to be YOURS!

[Fandango]

Vents:

OK, I've taken a few courses in physics and geometry. Never did anything with Geology or metalergy or what ever you call it. I've taken a few looks back and forth from some of the pics I took of the concept at the car shows and the pics of the White Mule.

I agree with radz. On good bump on the rear there and that could send a crack through the holes in the vents. Putting them in afterwards well, I wouldn't even trust a body expert really. However, can you imagine if there were inserts with pegs...you know what nevermind that idea.

After closer examination, the rear fender is now to pieces. The lower side skirt is detached. I still agree with radz. Next I'd liek to point out the spy pics of the yellow Camaro. Did you see the vents there are very noticable even at the angle of the shot. I hear, and this is just speculation, and maybe one of the "in the knows" can verify this but all the tooling for the car is ready. So this might be too little to late. I've made up my mind, I think they need to make the vent open at least and not functional.

I guess my point is, I guess I tried to use what I learned in physics and geometry, if you can angle the cuts, and arch the wholes there will be less stress on the piece. I don't need function. I like detail. I can feel Oldtimer's concern.

I study buying habbits for a living. There is practicaly no difference in the Yukon and the Tahoe, except detail and price. See my point? And the owners see a difference right? Some people see dents some people see detail.

In conclusion, I think those vents need to be open at the very least. If they are not open for production, I will spend top dollar, grit my teeth and hope to God that I can find the body expert to do so. At the very least I will have them painted in. How 'bout them apples?

Hence, I side with Oldtimer in the sence that I want vents that serve a function as to detail. Then, I can understand radz's point in that it's just not as easy as taking a dremil tool to the thing and making some holes.

I'm no expert in cost or engineering, but come on. GM has got to have some major brains on that team that can find a cost effective way to put in some vents. Really, they are smarter than that.

[GTAHVIT]

That's a really good post and I don't really have a worthy argument... right up until the end. I would suggest that as motivated as the Camaro team is to build the best car they can, If they didn't do something, it's cus when all thing are considered, they really can't. JMHO.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

That's a really good post and I don't really have a worthy argument... right up until the end. I would suggest that as motivated as the Camaro team is to build the best car they can, If they didn't do something, it's cus when all thing are considered, they really can't. JMHO.

As much as we enthusiasts want every last thing to be like the concept we gotta always keep in mind that there's always business/price considerations, safety standards and just general practical concerns that the powers that be at GM have to consider. It's easy to fault the bean counters. From what we're seeing though the bean counters did an awesome job at keeping this car close to the original idea of this car.

[radz28]

I agree with the last few posts and especially with Bruno. I can conceed here and there to little things and can appreciate GM has seemingly kept the scope of the entire Concept car in mind when trying to finalize the actual production car. I'm sure if there's a way they can make something more distinct and appealing, they will. I'd like them functional, but something's always got to give, so...

[MattG]

Originally Posted by OldTimer

I can live with "non functional" rear vents. Its really the look of the vents on the concept I would like to see them keep. I saw on another thread we are not going to be able to get the bumblebee color. That's what I was set to buy. I would even sacrifice going with a V6 if I can get the bumblbee color. Already bot the die cast metal bumblebee and have been admiring it daily for months. The new camaro is going to be beautiful, but, it is hard to accept something different when you have been fixated on the concept look for soooooooo long and set your mind on which one is going to be YOURS!

There's always the option of getting the car custom painted after you take delivery.