Auto vs. Manual

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Don't buy the hype that it has to have three pedals to be a sports car, or, to have fun.

A sports car is not just about performance, and even less so about acceleration performance alone. It's one of those things that if you have to ask, you're missing the point. So you probably aren't going to understand how I really would rather drive a 15 second conventional manual transmission car than an 11 second automatic.


The mirage of "high technology" here is in assuming that being better in terms of measured performance makes it better in every other way as well. T'ain't so, and what you're dismissing as "old technology" is much better at demonstrating our own human shortcomings - and dare I suggest it, getting us to try to improve our own skills.


Norm

[45thAnniversary2SS]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

A sports car is not just about performance, and even less so about acceleration performance alone. It's one of those things that if you have to ask, you're missing the point. So you probably aren't going to understand how I really would rather drive a 15 second conventional manual transmission car than an 11 second automatic.


The mirage of "high technology" here is in assuming that being better in terms of measured performance makes it better in every other way as well. T'ain't so, and what you're dismissing as "old technology" is much better at demonstrating our own human shortcomings - and dare I suggest it, getting us to try to improve our own skills.


Norm

I'm trembling. A mustang guy I actually want to buy a beer.. Well said

[Hercules]

I agree with what all of you are saying in your arguments of stick or automatic. I am one of those people that will totally admit that I am very lazy and don't want to shift gears all the time. I like getting in and putting it in gear and going, no matter if it's a sports car or a beater car. I ordered my ZL1 at the begining of the month. After going on kbb, nada, edmunds, and reading on this site I found a question about the gas guzzler tax. Some of the sites were saying that the tax is 2600 if you buy auto and 1300 if you buy manual. I asked my salesman about it and he was totally clueless and never heard of that. I told him I wanted an answer in black and white. He did some checking with GM and found out that it is true. The dealership thanked me because they had no idea of that, wich makes you feel great about your dealer. That made my mind up for me. As I told the saleman I was more than willing to pay the 1185 for the auto but I'm not paying a penalty, the extra 1300, to own it. The penalty for the auto is more than the option costs itself. So needless to say my manual will hopefully be made before I'm too old to enjoy it, from what everyone is saying. QMCJJH

[Raven87]

I'm not dismissing the stick. Quite the contrary, the majority of posters on this thread were dismissing the auto and I was merely saying it has a lot to offer, including the fact it is quicker.

To each his own.

[OldJedi]

Originally Posted by camarozl11

no! haha i am dead on the zl1, its drop dead beautiful lol. i have seen alot of "how to drive a manual car" videos so i know the basics i just need to practice.

I taught my daughters to drive a stick in an afternoon in a parking lot. They stalled it a bunch of times but they finally got the hang of it. It won't take long to learn, just a little time and patience. The progressive clutch on the Z is very forgiving and easy to learn.

But there are questions that you have to ask yourself first:

Is the car a daily driver? Will you spend a lot of time in heavy traffic everyday? Do you foresee any leg or hip problems that would hinder operating a clutch? Will the car mainly be used as a drag racer? If you answer YES to any of these, I would lean more towards an Automatic.

At age 62, these are the questions that I had to ask myself when I was in your position. How long would I want to keep driving a stick? My daily driver is an automatic and the Z is strictly a part time car along with the Corvette. I personally did not want to spend the extra $4,000.00 for an automatic. ($1,200.00 Transmission, $2,600.00 GGT, $200.00 Additional Taxes) I would rather put the money into other options.

A stick puts you more "in touch" with the car because you are constantly playing with it shifting through the gears but is a pain in the butt in bumper to bumper traffic. When you are cruising down the road it does not matter, except that you might see a very little bit better gas mileage with the stick.

In the end, it is a personal decision you have to make, which car do you want to be driving five years from now?

[Lonny Doyle]

GM should have a questionnaire that helps guide people toward the best fit for them.

I own a standard and prefer to drive standards but I considered buying the automatic.

I feel like everyone will agree that the automatic is going to be the easiest to drive, so if you are never going to do any serious racing it might be your best choice.

When it comes to racing, an automatic will almost always beat a standard at the drag strip.

Most likely, if you drag race, you will be bracket racing and bracket racing comes down to being consistent.
You need to cut a good light, leave the same way every time and shift at exactly the same RPM.

If you bracket race with a standard and run against autos you are not likely to make it past the first few rounds.

If you plan on running some road courses and auto crosses you will likely prefer a standard due to its shift predictability.

The clutch pedal is more binary than a non performance car's clutch, so don't test drive a 150 hp cobalt and expect the clutch to be as forgiving.

As far as wounding any of the components while learning you need not worry about that. No matter how many times you accidently stall the engine or over slip the clutch, it will in no way compare to holding the throttle at 4200 rpm and letting the clutch out to 580 hp held back by a set of drag radials.

Because you don't sidestep the clutch when launching at a drag strip the clutch slips for about the first 3 to 10 feet. This creates a lot of heat.

When you take off while street driving you probably use less than 30 HP.

If you are really not sure what to get I think you should go with an auto, it would be the safer choice.

[Vulpine]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

A sports car is not just about performance, and even less so about acceleration performance alone. It's one of those things that if you have to ask, you're missing the point. So you probably aren't going to understand how I really would rather drive a 15 second conventional manual transmission car than an 11 second automatic.


The mirage of "high technology" here is in assuming that being better in terms of measured performance makes it better in every other way as well. T'ain't so, and what you're dismissing as "old technology" is much better at demonstrating our own human shortcomings - and dare I suggest it, getting us to try to improve our own skills.


Norm

Doesn't hold much water considering your choice of vehicles and this forum...however, I must say I will take an 11 second car any day no matter what transmission over a 15 second car.

'I FEEL THE NEED>>>THE NEED FOR>>>S P E E D ! ! !'

[Norm Peterson]

Vulpine - since I haven't been here long enough for you to know where I'm coming from, I guess I'm going to have to try to explain . . . I'm not much into throwing smileys around, so try to keep in mind I'm not throwing flame here.

I really don't know how you get from Mustang ownership to my thoughts not holding water . . . unless, I guess, you just don't understand. I know myself well enough to be able make those statements, which I would post verbatim on any automotive forum should the same subjects come up.

What you need to know is that I'm a car enthusiast first and foremost. Things like brand fanboy-ism don't even register. Who knows, I might be driving a Camaro instead had Chevrolet brought it to market for the 2007 model year (preferably with at least 1LE suspension tuning).

Trust me, I'm no stranger to Camaro forums. Feel free to google my username here plus the term 'Camaro'.

FWIW - which may not actually be much - I only recently parted with the 1979 Chevy Malibu that I'd had since taking delivery of my order in February of that year. Yes, same as all of the other cars we've bought over the last 40 years it was an original stick-shift car, one of only about a couple thousand that year.


Norm

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by 45thAnniversary2SS

I'm trembling. A mustang guy I actually want to buy a beer.. Well said

I'll get the first round. Hope the bar's still got Sam Summer on tap.


Norm

[Chevrolet Customer Svc]

Originally Posted by WILD67

I've had manuals for years and was hoping to find a ZL1 with a manual. I didn't pre-order the car and was lucky to find an unallocated dealer order, however it had an auto. Wasn't thrilled at first but my want for the car outweighed the trans choice... and I'm lovin' the auto now. Maybe I'm getting lazy but it's sure nice to have the auto in traffic. The only thing I wish is that the shifts were a bit crisper but otherwise a great trans!

This is great feedback! What are all of your favorite features of your new Camaro?

Brandon
Chevrolet Customer Service

[Raven87]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

A sports car is not just about performance, and even less so about acceleration performance alone. It's one of those things that if you have to ask, you're missing the point. So you probably aren't going to understand how I really would rather drive a 15 second conventional manual transmission car than an 11 second automatic.

The mirage of "high technology" here is in assuming that being better in terms of measured performance makes it better in every other way as well. T'ain't so, and what you're dismissing as "old technology" is much better at demonstrating our own human shortcomings - and dare I suggest it, getting us to try to improve our own skills.


Norm

Hi Norm and thank you for your reply.

I do understand your comment but it also proves what I said earlier - that transmission preferences are subjective opinions to which everyone is entitled. If I sounded dismissive of the manual trans than I apologize as that was not my intent.

However, to say that one would rather drive a 15 second manual car versus an 11 second automatic does not mean the manual is better - it means you love to row your own gears more and that is an opinion to which you are passionate about and certainly entitled. Good for you!

And, if one's goal is to get better (sharpening skills) at shifting, more power to you. Again, that is only personal preference.

For me, I would drive either and certainly agree the manual is more fun. But the OP in his initial post was asking for opinions and my opinion is that an auto (especially the 6L90 in the ZL1) gives nothing away to a stick in fun and even is an advantage in many circumstances (based on facts).

There may even be a majority of people who think that a sports car is not a sports car without a manual trans; I think that you can have fun in any car no matter what tranny it has. That doesn't mean either of us is wrong because these are just opinions.

But - statistics do not lie. The auto is faster than the manual (in the ZL1) - that is why a lot of manually transmissioned cars end up with built autos when the owner is wanting every possible advantage and consistency in a run. There are several purpose built Drag cars that have had the manual yanked and a Powerglide, Turbo 400, 727, C5, etc put in place. Why? Because the auto is consistent, it handles driveline shock better than a manual, and it is quicker if properly built. That doesn't mean it's better to those who love the manual and I understand that.

I'm 58 years old and have owned scores of cars, some of them very high horsepower that I raced at NHRA tracks. Most of these cars were manuals and I am very good at shifting them in a race setting. But - I've driven well prepped autos and even the newest Porsche PDK and I can tell you - in my opinion - they are as 'fun' as any stick shift I've ever driven.

My last Grand National had a factory 200R4 transmission that was very well built by Vince Janis in Akron Ohio with billet parts and a 3200 stall converter that, if you were into the throttle, provided neck snapping shifts. The car ran consistent 11.70s with only bolt ons and could not have been any more fun if it had a manual transmission. Again - 'fun' is subjective and an opinion. Others may have found the car boring. C'est la vie!

Again, to each his own. The 6-speed manual in the ZL1 is an awesome transmission. But so is the automatic - and for many people, the auto is just fine or even preferable. I think the OP would enjoy the auto every bit as much, maybe more so in a daily driver setting if he has a lot of stop and go and would not be giving away anything to the manual.

But - that is only my opinion.

[silverds]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Hi Norm and thank you for your reply.

I do understand your comment but it also proves what I said earlier - that transmission preferences are subjective opinions to which everyone is entitled. If I sounded dismissive of the manual trans than I apologize as that was not my intent.

However, to say that one would rather drive a 15 second manual car versus an 11 second automatic does not mean the manual is better - it means you love to row your own gears more and that is an opinion to which you are passionate about and certainly entitled. Good for you!

And, if one's goal is to get better (sharpening skills) at shifting, more power to you. Again, that is only personal preference.

For me, I would drive either and certainly agree the manual is more fun. But the OP in his initial post was asking for opinions and my opinion is that an auto (especially the 6L90 in the ZL1) gives nothing away to a stick in fun and even is an advantage in many circumstances (based on facts).

There may even be a majority of people who think that a sports car is not a sports car without a manual trans; I think that you can have fun in any car no matter what tranny it has. That doesn't mean either of us is wrong because these are just opinions.

But - statistics do not lie. The auto is faster than the manual (in the ZL1) - that is why a lot of manually transmissioned cars end up with built autos when the owner is wanting every possible advantage and consistency in a run. There are several purpose built Drag cars that have had the manual yanked and a Powerglide, Turbo 400, 727, C5, etc put in place. Why? Because the auto is consistent, it handles driveline shock better than a manual, and it is quicker if properly built. That doesn't mean it's better to those who love the manual and I understand that.

I'm 58 years old and have owned scores of cars, some of them very high horsepower that I raced at NHRA tracks. Most of these cars were manuals and I am very good at shifting them in a race setting. But - I've driven well prepped autos and even the newest Porsche PDK and I can tell you - in my opinion - they are as 'fun' as any stick shift I've ever driven.

My last Grand National had a factory 200R4 transmission that was very well built by Vince Janis in Akron Ohio with billet parts and a 3200 stall converter that, if you were into the throttle, provided neck snapping shifts. The car ran consistent 11.70s with only bolt ons and could not have been any more fun if it had a manual transmission. Again - 'fun' is subjective and an opinion. Others may have found the car boring. C'est la vie!

Again, to each his own. The 6-speed manual in the ZL1 is an awesome transmission. But so is the automatic - and for many people, the auto is just fine or even preferable. I think the OP would enjoy the auto every bit as much, maybe more so in a daily driver setting if he has a lot of stop and go and would not be giving away anything to the manual.

But - that is only my opinion.

I can't dispute anything you said. Very well written, honest and appreciated response.

P.S. Your experience is humbling. I look forward to gleening some knowledge from your insights in the future.

[Drm2Reality]

I am planning on purchasing a new ZL1 in the near future.

Never really considered the auto until recently after reading so many positive comments/reviews. I always imagined my muscle car would be manual never a second thought.

Any of you driven both?
Positives or negatives please tell.

Regarding the auto...in manual mode can it be driven the same at a true manual? If I chose to leave it in first until the motor blew would it do so...or would it shift?

[CWI]

My friend who is a salesman I bought my car from as well as a few other cars said their dealership got an allotment for 2 ZL1's. He asked me what I thought they should get for transmissions. They are getting one coupe and one convertable. What do you all think? My thoughts were manual in the coupe and automatic in the vert? I told him I would ask on here to see what people prefer.

Thanks for your input!!!