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Old 05-20-2013, 12:21 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by NightmareZL1 View Post
I am making a very awesome point, one that is lost on you. If mark chose those tires for the z28, he knew exactly what they could do, and knew it would help the z28 close the power gap with the zl1. I would have done the same thing. I hope they are cutting some additional weight now in your dream car, it probably needed it.

I suppose you think that jim , above, doesn't have any actual points either? Id like to see your counter to his experience, UFO's?

I have been following these recent z/28 threads and noticed that you are pretty dang persistent in suggesting that putting the trofeos on the zl1 would close the 3 second gap between the zl1 and the z/28.

So instead of just making guesses based on hearsay, I did some reading of previous testing to see how accurate your proposal is. What I found was interesting... it may just put this to rest (though knowing you, i somehow doubt that )

Car and driver did a lightning lap of the Corvette ZR1 in both 2010, and 2012. the only... ONLY difference between the two cars is that the 2012 had michelin's best semi slick "sport cup" tires (80TW) and the 2010 had michelin pilot sport PS2's (220TW). This is similar to the difference between the eagle f1 g2's (220TW) and Pirelli's best semi slick "Trofeo R" tires (60TW).

LINK

On the 4.1 mile VIR course, the ZR1 with the 80TW tires was 1.1 seconds faster than the ZR1 with the 220TW tires. That's a great improvement no doubt, but it is quite a bit shy of the 3-4 seconds that people are speculating the tires would give back. Also, this was on a 4.1 mile course, not a 2.9 mile, so the tire advantage would likely be even smaller than that.

I suspect a similar case with the ZL1 tires switched to trofeo's. while they will definitely improve lap times, it won't do so by 3 - 4 seconds on such a small course. Around 1 second is much more likely.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:03 PM   #212
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:09 PM   #213
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Michelin Pilot Sport Cups may not be the best tire to use for comparison purposes. These tires need to be HOT to work at their best. In cooler conditions it can be very difficult to get them up to temperature, and below 60 degrees ambient it’s pretty much impossible. On my race car on a 75 degree day I can get Hoosier R6’s up to optimum temperature in about half a lap, but MPSC’s take at least two laps. This is why you don’t see anyone actually racing on these tires anymore.

If this test was done on a cool day, or by a driver who failed to get them up to temperature then this is simply not a valid comparison.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:38 PM   #214
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On a related note... they put slicks on the Viper TA and it gained 3 seconds at MRLS over the P Zero Corsas. So if the Z/28 is all tire, the Torfeo must be one heck of a tire. In reality I suspect the gain for ZL1 would not be a full 3 seconds, probably would be lucky if it were 1.5 seconds.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1303_2014_srt_viper_ta/viewall.html
Just For Fun: Slicks!

For no good reason other than "Why not?" we went ahead and stuck a set of shaved and heat-cycled racing slicks on the Viper TA. We happened to have Matt Edmunds, vice president of Tire Rack, with us. I asked him how much of a difference slicks would make around MRLS. "About 3 seconds," was his knowing reply. Hey, the TA stands for Time Attack, right? Rest assured, Randy attacked that time, popping off a blistering lap in 1:30.78 for the slicks versus 1:33.62 for the Corsas. (Mr. Edmunds was right on the money.)


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Old 05-20-2013, 02:45 PM   #215
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thread closed
you mean no more grown men trolls trying to get the last word in using high school insults? cmon!
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:10 PM   #216
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the biggest problem here is that everyone is assuming that the ls7 in the z28 will only have 500bhp. gm stated in a press release that the z28 will have the best power to weight ratio of all Camaro. that either means that it is 3500 pounds or is making at least 540bhp.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:45 PM   #217
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the biggest problem here is that everyone is assuming that the ls7 in the z28 will only have 500bhp. gm stated in a press release that the z28 will have the best power to weight ratio of all Camaro. that either means that it is 3500 pounds or is making at least 540bhp.
That would be awesome if it is true (I hope it is). However I don't recall ever reading that from any official mouthpiece. Source please?



I've been trying to make some sense of what hp/tq could be but hopes were dashed when I learned the new tri-y headers are more restrictive. Other factors potentially at play, of course, and hope springs eternal
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:51 PM   #218
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I have been following these recent z/28 threads and noticed that you are pretty dang persistent in suggesting that putting the trofeos on the zl1 would close the 3 second gap between the zl1 and the z/28.

So instead of just making guesses based on hearsay, I did some reading of previous testing to see how accurate your proposal is. What I found was interesting... it may just put this to rest (though knowing you, i somehow doubt that )

Car and driver did a lightning lap of the Corvette ZR1 in both 2010, and 2012. the only... ONLY difference between the two cars is that the 2012 had michelin's best semi slick "sport cup" tires (80TW) and the 2010 had michelin pilot sport PS2's (220TW). This is similar to the difference between the eagle f1 g2's (220TW) and Pirelli's best semi slick "Trofeo R" tires (60TW).

LINK

On the 4.1 mile VIR course, the ZR1 with the 80TW tires was 1.1 seconds faster than the ZR1 with the 220TW tires. That's a great improvement no doubt, but it is quite a bit shy of the 3-4 seconds that people are speculating the tires would give back. Also, this was on a 4.1 mile course, not a 2.9 mile, so the tire advantage would likely be even smaller than that.

I suspect a similar case with the ZL1 tires switched to trofeo's. while they will definitely improve lap times, it won't do so by 3 - 4 seconds on such a small course. Around 1 second is much more likely.


Opinions = too many

Opinions supported with objective facts and analysis = way, way too few.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by doc7000 View Post
gm stated in a press release that the z28 will have the best power to weight ratio of all Camaro.
I can't seem to find this info. Where did you get it? I hope your right....
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:44 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
That would be awesome if it is true (I hope it is). However I don't recall ever reading that from any official mouthpiece. Source please?



I've been trying to make some sense of what hp/tq could be but hopes were dashed when I learned the new tri-y headers are more restrictive. Other factors potentially at play, of course, and hope springs eternal
If they were just going to drop the LS7 from the vette in it then they would have said so and we'd know the exact power. However they said "about 500 hp" which means they aren't just doing off-the-shelf and are obviously tweaking that too. They're doing that with everything apparently.

Al O said they exceeded their goal of weight reduction of 100 lbs less than an SS but didn't say how much more. Mark Reuss said "about 500 hp" which indicates it will have more than the vette version of the LS7 but they haven't said how much more. At Milford which is a relatively short track it was already faster by 3 seconds than the ZL1; on the Nurburgring which is much longer it's going to be substantial.

Mark isn't just building a weekend racer, he's building a series championship car which is the true heritage of the Z/28.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:46 PM   #221
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If they were just going to drop the LS7 from the vette in it then they would have said so and we'd know the exact power. However they said "about 500 hp" which means they aren't just doing off-the-shelf and are obviously tweaking that too. They're doing that with everything apparently.
I was thinking the same thing.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:59 PM   #222
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Actually is was said to be "more" than 500 HP.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:17 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Zfatuated View Post
That would be awesome if it is true (I hope it is). However I don't recall ever reading that from any official mouthpiece. Source please?



I've been trying to make some sense of what hp/tq could be but hopes were dashed when I learned the new tri-y headers are more restrictive. Other factors potentially at play, of course, and hope springs eternal
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...z-28-a-117322/

Under the cutting weight section, it clearly states that the Z/28 Camaro will have the best power to weight ratio of any version of the Camaro.

Of course there is always the chance that the statement was a error, though if it isn't an error then it suggest more power then 500BHP. BTW in GMs press release it does state at least 500BHP, also for the stock LS7 engine the most restrictive part of that engine isn't the exhaust manifold/headers but the exhaust port itself.

The ZL1 Camaro at 4,100 pounds and 580BHP has a power to weight ratio of 7.1 pounds per horsepower. If the Z/28 Camaro is 3,780 pounds and packs 500BHP that gives it a power to weight ratio of 7.5 pounds per horsepower (still very good). The current SS Camaro is stated as weighing in at (no options) 3,860 pounds (source chevy website) which would put the Z/28 at 3,760 pounds roughly. If they reduced more then 100 pounds then it would put its weight at even lower.
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:23 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by doc7000 View Post
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...z-28-a-117322/

Under the cutting weight section, it clearly states that the Z/28 Camaro will have the best power to weight ratio of any version of the Camaro.

Of course there is always the chance that the statement was a error, though if it isn't an error then it suggest more power then 500BHP. BTW in GMs press release it does state at least 500BHP, also for the stock LS7 engine the most restrictive part of that engine isn't the exhaust manifold/headers but the exhaust port itself.

That's not actually the press release it's a article written by a staff writer, It's more than likely a error..... I still hope it's right though.
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