What the dealer said...

[TAG UR IT]

^As far as I know, you can build straight from a manufacturer website, but you can't order from them. And, if you can order from them, you won't be paying them directly...it has to go through a dealer, who, specifies price even after having the MSRP listed.

So, you order through the dealer to GM who ships the car to the dealer which you pay.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by Emu the Foo

i will hopefully have around 20-30k cash. i hope i can have them begging for my business

That's what I'm going to do as well. When they know you're paying in cash, they are much more agreeable.

[mxkx250]

I was at a dealer Friday for some service on my truck and saw a Vette in the showroom. MSRP 47k. If the Camaro is 40K, I don't know many enthusists that will pay that for a Camaro when they can upgradr to a Vette for 7k.
Although that is 08 Vette, compared to 2010 Camaro.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by mxkx250

I was at a dealer Friday for some service on my truck and saw a Vette in the showroom. MSRP 47k. If the Camaro is 40K, I don't know many enthusists that will pay that for a Camaro when they can upgradr to a Vette for 7k.
Although that is 08 Vette, compared to 2010 Camaro.

You're aiming too high for the price tag. Take a look at the G8 or Mustang. Expect pricing to be closer to platforms already out. Fully loaded, I can see $40,000, but you can do better with most of those options using aftermarket parts or just living without them. For example, top-end audio for GM isn't anything compared to top-end audio from Bose, JL, Pioneer, or Alpine. Or consider an upgraded exhaust. You could do better by getting a Magnaflow for horsepower than just using whatever GMPP puts out. Even if you want to keep the classic stock muscle car look, you can do plenty to upgrade your car for less expense and more benefit than the dealer or GM will charge. Expect to pay $30,000 for a base V8, then add a couple thousand for a suspension, a couple more for a convertible if you want it, and a thousand for upgrades like leather seats and a limited slip rear differential. All the other luxuries are better in the aftermarket.

[blindingillusion]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

You're aiming too high for the price tag. Take a look at the G8 or Mustang. Expect pricing to be closer to platforms already out. Fully loaded, I can see $40,000, but you can do better with most of those options using aftermarket parts or just living without them. For example, top-end audio for GM isn't anything compared to top-end audio from Bose, JL, Pioneer, or Alpine. Or consider an upgraded exhaust. You could do better by getting a Magnaflow for horsepower than just using whatever GMPP puts out. Even if you want to keep the classic stock muscle car look, you can do plenty to upgrade your car for less expense and more benefit than the dealer or GM will charge. Expect to pay $30,000 for a base V8, then add a couple thousand for a suspension, a couple more for a convertible if you want it, and a thousand for upgrades like leather seats and a limited slip rear differential. All the other luxuries are better in the aftermarket.

But for those who want better performance from the factory without risking their warrenty, or for those who don't want to tool on their car as much as I want to then factory performance options are perfect.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by blindingillusion

But for those who want better performance from the factory without risking their warrenty, or for those who don't want to tool on their car as much as I want to then factory performance options are perfect.

GMPP does offer decent performance, but I don't want to violate my warranty either. The actual rule in the US is that what you install has to be proven to violate the warranty and can only be proven to do so after something breaks in order to violate that warranty. Basically, if you don't want to violate your warranty, build your car carefully and don't expect GM to do maintenance on parts that GM did not sell to you. If GM did sell a part to you, they will maintain the part, but they may not take full responsibility if it broke something else because they will claim that your warranty told you not to install that part. If your GMPP part isn't going to be completely covered, I figure installing the best parts I on the market will give me more power with less risk. After all, they are usually better at building what they make than GM since they are product experts.

In other words, I encourage aftermarket modification because the benefits are better than what GM will sell you. Just don't install something that might break something else, like a 400 shot of nitrous.

[Emu the Foo]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

GMPP does offer decent performance, but I don't want to violate my warranty either. The actual rule in the US is that what you install has to be proven to violate the warranty and can only be proven to do so after something breaks in order to violate that warranty.

In other words, I encourage aftermarket modification because the benefits are better than what GM will sell you. Just don't install something that might break something else, like a 400 shot of nitrous.

+1. also numerous supercharger manufactures off extended warranties if the product causes the malfunction or breakage

[blindingillusion]

So I got a funny one for yall. Long one, but definitely funny.

I had set up meetings with a few of the dealers that I am on the contact list for, just to get a feel for them and whether or not I am willing to even try dealing with them.

So I go into one of these meetings expecting the usual. "We don't know much about it, but we would love to sell you one." "We don't know what the price will be, but MSRP is reasonable Mr. Williams" Just.. ya know, the usual.

WRONG. This dealer is the biggest idiot, or thinks I am. First thing he says he is has some inside information on the options and packages available. I do my best to look interested. He proceeds to tell me that for 1000 dollars down he can go ahead and take down the specs I want and have the order in by this summer. HAHAHAH! Barely managing to keep a straight face I lead him on. Here are his bogus facts.

*Camaro will have 6.2 liter "big block" V8. (HAHA)
*There are 4 striping packages available.
* No paddle shifting, but an A5 and an M6.
* Apparently they decided against Forced Induction because the engine is so incredible.

So I am nearly busting at the seams at this point, but just for a laugh I put on my best "WoW, where do I sign face" and asked how much it all costs. Not even joking, this guy tells me that they don't deal in final prices, only the amounts of your monthly payment. He did tell me that he would unfortunately have to mark it up from MSRP because of the "rare nature" of this car.

At this point I was wanting to laugh so hard I excused myself to go to the bathroom and to make a call. After a good chuckle on the phone with my friend I decide I can't let this continue.

I go back to the desk, set down, and explain to this guy how I know he is lying about 98% of what he is saying and that I would love to have a chat with the owner. 20 minutes later a rather large man walks out and introduces himself as the dealership manager, and asks me what my problem is. I tell him about the salesman's lies and cons. I think the manager is going to explode.

The manager gives me his apologies, and then clears it up that they are accepting 1000 checks to hold (not cash) for a spot to order the car. He says they are unclear on numbers, options, and anything else, but because of popular demand he needed a way to weed out serious customers.

He then tells me that the salesman will be dealt with and if I would keep this information under my hat he would add me to his standby list with no check.

I know that nothing is going to happen to the salesman con, and that the manager is probably a lying asshole, but because I keep my word I am not going to give out a name. All I will say is I will more than likely not be buying my car in the area of Northern WV.

[GothamCamaro]

Originally Posted by blindingillusion

WRONG. This dealer is the biggest idiot, or thinks I am. First thing he says he is has some inside information on the options and packages available. I do my best to look interested. He proceeds to tell me that for 1000 dollars down he can go ahead and take down the specs I want and have the order in by this summer. HAHAHAH! Barely managing to keep a straight face I lead him on. Here are his bogus facts.

*Camaro will have 6.2 liter "big block" V8. (HAHA)
*There are 4 striping packages available.
* No paddle shifting, but an A5 and an M6.
* Apparently they decided against Forced Induction because the engine is so incredible.

I know that nothing is going to happen to the salesman con, and that the manager is probably a lying asshole, but because I keep my word I am not going to give out a name. All I will say is I will more than likely not be buying my car in the area of Northern WV.

Wow, nice story. Oh I bet the stories are getting ready to take off from Salesmen's mouths. That's why I won't bother calling my two dealers yet that have me on their waiting list. Don't honestly know if there is one with them but I get their emails so I know I'm on their internet marketing list!

I will give them a holler in September to see how things are going.
The power of the internet, gives you the power of knowledge against shifty sales guys!

[LaffChevy]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

That's what I'm going to do as well. When they know you're paying in cash, they are much more agreeable.

I used to be a finance asst. a few years ago, actually they prefer you financing since most dealers can hold 1 to 2 % points on the financing ie; your approved at 4.9% apr and the dealer tells you your rate is 7.9%apr and then they "Let you" haggle them down a point to 6.9%apr and they still make 2% .
If you wana shock a salesman ,when your approval comes ask him your "buy rate" thats the true approval rate a bank issues you not an inflated one from the dealer.

[stovt001]

Originally Posted by LaffChevy

I used to be a finance asst. a few years ago, actually they prefer you financing since most dealers can hold 1 to 2 % points on the financing ie; your approved at 4.9% apr and the dealer tells you your rate is 7.9%apr and then they "Let you" haggle them down a point to 6.9%apr and they still make 2% .
If you wana shock a salesman ,when your approval comes ask him your "buy rate" thats the true approval rate a bank issues you not an inflated one from the dealer.

That is correct.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by LaffChevy

I used to be a finance asst. a few years ago, actually they prefer you financing since most dealers can hold 1 to 2 % points on the financing ie; your approved at 4.9% apr and the dealer tells you your rate is 7.9%apr and then they "Let you" haggle them down a point to 6.9%apr and they still make 2% .
If you wana shock a salesman ,when your approval comes ask him your "buy rate" thats the true approval rate a bank issues you not an inflated one from the dealer.

Thank you very much for that information! And welcome to the site!

[Sterling]

That is true. Finance will usually get a fax from one of the banks that they sent your info to that will have their approval and the buy rate on it.

[rolnslo]

See, this is why I don't do anything at the dealership besides talk final price - no trade in, no financing/monthly payment numbers, no overpriced add-ons. Give me an amount to write on the check and I'll tell you where to send the paperwork for the title. End of game.

I'm willing to haggle over the final price because I know what I can get the same or similar car for at three other dealerships within an hour's drive.

I arrange my financing ahead of time (credit union, bank, eloan.com, capitaloneautofinance.com) to get the best rate I can, a loan term I can live with and a monthly payment I know is correct. I don't trust the back-office guy at a dealership to give me the best deal "for me". It is usually the best deal for "him". I was screwed only one time on financing before I learned what really happens, only it wasn't +2% for the dealer, it was 4.5% extra.

I've also learned that having the cash to pay for the vehicle downpayment doesn't really matter much unless you have it all. If there is financing to be done, the dealer will typically find some way to get a little bit extra out of the deal, no matter how much cash you put in front of him. It's all about selling and making money, doesn't really matter where the money comes from.

Off my soapbox now...