Road and Track: July '08

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by jsenn

I completely agree. I really don't see general motors selling a car that will run with a corvette that costs anywhere from $46,000-$70,000 for $30,000. it just wouldn't make sense. Even an Impala SS with the 5.3L smal block V8 that has 303 hp costs upwards of $29,000. how can they logically sell a vehicle that is
1: better looking and? just means it'll sell more! all their cars are looking better!
2:Brand new ...everyones cars are brand new...as the rest of GM's cars too...
3:hyped beyond belief ...the others are hyped too. We just don't read about them daily and aren't on their forums. Trust me...Ford guys LOVE their Mustangs...etc, etc, etc,
4:400+ hp with a much larger, more expensive engine ...the LS1 and LS3 are almost identical in cost. I don't know how you get "much larger" out of 346 cubic inches to 376 cubic inches. 5.7 vs 6.2. That's not much larger. 346 to 454 would be much larger IMO...
5:has bigger wheels and tires ...we don't even know the sizes yet. And, 20's won't be that much more expensive...not like it's going to add an extra grand on the price of the car.
6:has a more costly suspension and transmission ...can't comment on this because I don't have figures on the cost of the previous 4th Gen vs. current suspension and transmissions. Do you konw the costs? I'm curious.
and
7:has more technology ...more technology that has already been around for years now...OnStar is not something "new" that GM made specifically for this car. Homelink has been around for YEARS. HUD? If we get one? Already been made. Digital displays? the majority of the technology is already there....just need to size the display to fit the area you need and to program the module. IRS? Already been implemented on the Zeta architecture. "Pedders" is already claiming to have all the specs (for 10 months now?) for the IRS on the Camaro. They said it was basically the same set up as another car.

Everything in this car is new....in a design sense. I'd guess that 85% of the technology that is going into this car has already been researched, tested, and approved. They don't need a team to develop OnStar for this Camaro. Just toss it in... Yes, it has more technology, but the technology is already there.

for the same money? Not to rain on anyones parade or anything, it just doesn't make sense. I for one wouldn't be surprised to see a price tag of damn near $40K for the SS.

As fully as I can, I call

The Camaro itself will FLOP if the V8 doesn't come in close to the Mustang. Why? Because I won't be buying a 35K to 40K base V8. But, who am I, right? I'll tell ya....I'm the same guy just like thousands of others who want this Camaro in the V8 trim and are in my financial position. That's pretty much how it's always been for me. I'm telling you....all ^ does NOT matter. I don't want a V6. I want a V8. I'm not the only one. GM needs to hit the market segment that buyers of my category fall in.

Originally Posted by TheMadHatter99

GM has repeatedly stated their desire to price the Camaro closely to the current Mustang (with the exception of a possible "premium"). . Ergo, we're looking for the base V8 w/o options to come in just shy of $30k The supercharged version will obviously be a fair amount higher than that, possibly around $40k depending on options and other upgrades.
Thank you!:word:
This is all MSRP though, we've no idea what gouging dealers will be able to get due to the car's notoriety, initial scarcity, and probable popularity.

So many have said MSRP. You WILL be able to find plenty of dealers who won't be marking them up. GM will be working triple time getting all these out. Just watch...

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Every time I read one of these, it makes me that much more anxious for the unveil to finally seperate the rumors from truth.

Jsenn, none of that matters. Absolutely none of it. (don't read that or the following nastily; I don't mean it that way )

The only thing that matters is that it competes in the marketplace against Mustangs and Challengers. HOW they do it, is completely up to GM. If that means opting for an LS3 over an L76 and hiding the minor cost differences somewhere, who are we to question? It won't undercut the competitors in cost, certainly not (so I guess all the goodies do have a tiny impact...); but it's not going to be priced like a Corvette (that's what it sounds like you're suggesting). I can't make sense of that.

Beyond that, not all vehicles are created equal. If they were...explain why I can't get a base '08 CTS for the same as a V6 G8? ....With the Impala, it's primary function isn't a performance vehicle, so why price it that way?
Don't count on it......but it won't be too much higher...

, , and

[Captain Awesome]

If the V-8 comes out and it does NOT come in the $30K or under price range, those in the financial position to get one will most likely be absorbed by other cars in the same range. Or even a nice used or new C6.

Hard to compete with the halo car of your own company...

Plus, if the DI 300HP V-6 car is in the low 20's, I really don't see how the V-8 could possibly cost 30-40% more... it's not THAT expensive to add larger wheels and tires and a pair of cylinders guys. Really.

[SilverTurtle]

here's my bet on pricing:

Z28 - $41,999 base, $45,999 fully loaded
SS - $29,995 base, $32,999 fully loaded
V6 - $21,999 base, $27,999 fully loaded

[SilverTurtle]

also, I believe whoever it was that said that the LS3 is about the same price to produce as the LS1 is correct... to wit, did you know that an LS3 engine from Scoggin-Dickey is actually less expensive than the LS6 crate motor? 30hp more and $100.00 less... interesting, isn't it?

[Wender]

I read thru all of these and didnt really notice anyone challanging the fact that R&T reported that the SS will slot BELOW the Z28??? does that make sense?

I owned a 95 v-6 in High School, loved it, and when the car died in 02 i promised myself I'd get a new one when it came out, but from 95 to 02 the Z always had less power than the SS, why would that change?

I dont like it, the SS should be the top model.

Does anyone else think something is missing on the rear of the car? i love the side view, front, top, everything but the tail, I'm not a big fan of spoilers but maybe that's what it's missing?

[TheMadHatter99]

There are equal numbers of people on this board who think that SS will be the top model or that Z/28 will be the top. It's still heavily debated and GM hasn't said much on the matter as of yet. Personally I fall in the Z/28 being the top model crowd.

As far as spoilers go, there will without a doubt be a variety of spoilers available either from GM or through aftermarket companies. Based on a few pictures that have leaked or been allowed to leak I think we can expect a small decklid spoiler stock with some larger options available from GMPP and other companies.

[TAG UR IT]

^Hey Wender. Regarding the SS being a slot below the Z28 and all, lol, you have a lot of catching up to do! Lot's of reading, that is. The 4th Gen SS was only faster due to "forced air induction." It was basicall a lid. Put on an exhaust from SlP and it gave it a few more hp. There was NO difference in engines. So, IMO, the Z28 and SS were the same...

And...I know because I owned both, an 02 Z28 and 02 SS. My Z28 actually pulled faster times at the track than my SS.

Be prepared to be dissapointed because rumor has it that the Z28 could be top dog.

Yes. The spoileris missing on the rear of the trunk.

[Wender]

I cant argue much with you cause you owned both lol, i didnt so i only have magazines to go by, the SS if i remembered correctly had 320hp while the Z had 305 I believe?

The SS also had all the additional goodies as you mentioned above and cost more, that's why i always thought of it as the top model.

I love your SS on the picture by the way.

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by Wender

I cant argue much with you cause you owned both lol, i didnt so i only have magazines to go by, the SS if i remembered correctly had 320hp while the Z had 305 I believe?

The SS also had all the additional goodies as you mentioned above and cost more, that's why i always thought of it as the top model.

I love your SS on the picture by the way.

while the SS did have the additional badging and the "forced air" hood, it really was kind of an equal to the Z28, but with a few more ponies... owning both, I'd say that my Z28 pulls faster, but the SS has more power on demand just off idle... now I will admit that I'm comparing a six speed Z28 to an automatic SS, but I dont honestly think that the A4 makes that much of a difference.

in the first generation of Camaro, the Z28 was above the SS... and the rumor is that GM is starting over at the beginning with the 5th gen, so that would entail the Z28 being the top model... and I'm in the faction that believes that the Z28 really should be the top model, since any Chevy can be an SS, but only a Camaro can be a Z28... which, btw, you will find posted on this sight more than a few times... lol

[chadrcr]

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle

while the SS did have the additional badging and the "forced air" hood, it really was kind of an equal to the Z28, but with a few more ponies... owning both, I'd say that my Z28 pulls faster, but the SS has more power on demand just off idle... now I will admit that I'm comparing a six speed Z28 to an automatic SS, but I dont honestly think that the A4 makes that much of a difference.

in the first generation of Camaro, the Z28 was above the SS... and the rumor is that GM is starting over at the beginning with the 5th gen, so that would entail the Z28 being the top model... and I'm in the faction that believes that the Z28 really should be the top model, since any Chevy can be an SS, but only a Camaro can be a Z28... which, btw, you will find posted on this sight more than a few times... lol

If there is going to be a base V8...SS L76 and a MASS produced Z/28 LS3, that will be fine. I just do not want the Z/28 to be the limited production 500+ hp LS9 - GT500 competitor. I want the Z/28 to be affordable... not $40k+

The first generation Z/28 may have been the best Camaro,
but the SS396 and COPO 427s were the high horsepower Camaros......

[Wender]

Originally Posted by SilverTurtle

, since any Chevy can be an SS, but only a Camaro can be a Z28...

AMEN BUDDY! i dont need to hear anything else! if a cobalt can be an SS then the Z28 SHOULD be the top dog!

i never thought of it that way... you got me sold and I started this debate lol... good job.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Wender

I cant argue much with you cause you owned both lol, i didnt so i only have magazines to go by, the SS if i remembered correctly had 320hp while the Z had 305 I believe?

The SS also had all the additional goodies as you mentioned above and cost more, that's why i always thought of it as the top model.

I love your SS on the picture by the way.

315 vs 335.

I thank you very much for the compliment on the SS.

[Chevyrocker]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

As fully as I can, I call

The Camaro itself will FLOP if the V8 doesn't come in close to the Mustang. Why? Because I won't be buying a 35K to 40K base V8. But, who am I, right? I'll tell ya....I'm the same guy just like thousands of others who want this Camaro in the V8 trim and are in my financial position. That's pretty much how it's always been for me. I'm telling you....all ^ does NOT matter. I don't want a V6. I want a V8. I'm not the only one. GM needs to hit the market segment that buyers of my category fall in.

So many have said MSRP. You WILL be able to find plenty of dealers who won't be marking them up. GM will be working triple time getting all these out. Just watch...


, , and

Looks like I made some people angry. Let me start by saying that I was talking about the top of the line Camaro, not the base V8, costing upwards of $40,000. But I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. For the "base"
V8, I bet $30,000 is right on. Settle down...just speculation.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by jsenn

Looks like I made some people angry. Let me start by saying that I was talking about the top of the line Camaro, not the base V8, costing upwards of $40,000. But I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. For the "base"
V8, I bet $30,000 is right on. Settle down...just speculation.

Oh, so I was reading it wrong....sorry about that. And, I wasn't tryign to be disrespectful again... Sorry if I came off otherwise. I was just trying to express my points....and some were in a suprised state of mind and were not meant to be rude (you can't always tell exact emotion from a sentence). I try to begin by saying things like, "As fully as I can..." before I go into something where I disagree.

But, I read the part of you post about an SS being darn near 40K. I also saw something about base. I put the two together to mean base SS near 40K. Well, there's a large majority who believe that the SS will be the 'base' Camaro....which will come in at 400hp for the V8. That will most likely be priced under 30K. Then, there's the top dog which many believe will be the Z28 w/ the LSA. I believe this will run $39,995 base - no options.

Thus, my suprise when you said SS at 40. So, all good!