The 2011+ Mustang Thread

[Kyle2k]

Originally Posted by Supermans

Mustang owners have one thread to go to.. Nobody is forcing you to read this thread and reply We have a good rivalry now, a few years ago without a Camaro in existence there was none, so at least we can all be proud to have a rivalry up and running which will benefit all brands competing with each other.. Simple as that. But I'm glad you're still hanging around, the back and forth is fun for what it is. And it'll get more fun as more reviews and comparisons pop up which they will..

It is interesting how you even identify yourself with the other crowd when you reply now. You were a Camaro guy half a year ago, an overall enthusiast a week a go, and now you are repeating the same things we hear time and time again from the people that obviously have an agenda. Just chill dude, you know where you are and you should expect to see reactions like this (due to your longevity here). Quit running off your previous reputation - you might find doing that will cause your credibility to drop off quicker than if you had none to begin with.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

Uhh, that's probably because he got it for 15k. Sounds like somebody wrecked it to me.

Anywho, this whole SRA vs IRS debate is stupid. By design, IRS is a superior basis for handling, while SRA is a superior platform for traction on even surfaces. This is neither here nor there as these statements apply to a "perfect world" just like the idea that OHC is theoretically superior to OHV. It is completely dependent on the application and the execution of the design in said application. In the case in question, the mustang's SRA is executed better than any SRA to ever be used in a production vehicle, period. The IRS in the Camaro is about middle-ground when it comes to execution, but that's only because IRS is used in every other performance vehicle around. The two designs perform right on par with each other in their current platforms, with the mustang having a slight advantage because of it's weight. It honestly doesn't matter which basic design is better because the fact remains that these two cars (m6 vs m6) are insanely close and it will always come down to the driver.

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

It is interesting how you even identify yourself with the other crowd when you reply now. You were a Camaro guy half a year ago, an overall enthusiast a week a go, and now you are repeating the same things we hear time and time again from the people that obviously have an agenda. Just chill dude, you know where you are and you should expect to see reactions like this (due to your longevity here). Quit running off your previous reputation - you might find doing that will cause your credibility to drop off quicker than if you had none to begin with.

This is the Mustang thread, and I do own a Mustang.. I still like the Camaro as well and enjoyed driving it when I did. A lot of the complaints or little problems I had are being worked on for the 2011 Camaro per what Hylton has pointed out. So everything is going well and the Camaro is improving as it should just like the Mustang has over the years. This 2011 was the biggest leap forward ever for the Mustang from one year to the next in terms of adding all sorts of features to it. The next couple years things should remain about the same until the Camaro surpasses the 2011 in speed and handling. Will that take the new platform as the car moves away from Zeta? Only time will tell.

I identify myself as both a Camaro and a Mustang enthusiast because I am. My criticism of the Camaro is purely because I care about it and want it to improve so that we all can benefit from those improvements later. When I write my review of the Camaro I drove for a year, it may sound like a bash fest and I will be called names, however I hope Fbodfather and Hylton as well as some others will read it and get an honest take on the car just as Number 3 did when they beta tested the pre-production for as long as they did. Since I am not brand loyal, I am able to enjoy the best that any car company can offer and defend its position in comparisons to whatever car company that competes in its class. The M3 may not be in the same class, but it is a great comparison nonetheless for handling and speed. That is why I am a muscle car fan.. I feel sorry for people who get all worked up about brand loyalty etc. So lets all take a deep breath and continue on this never ending discussion.

[Americanmuscle11]

Originally Posted by truth411

Wow there is alot of fail in that post. But there is no doubt Ford has done a great job with overcoming the SRA natural flaws. On smooth pavement there is no difference, but on uneven pavement your statement is totaly false. Also handeling of a car is affected by more than just what type of rear suspension is used. Like the wheel/tire combo, shocks, swaybars etc.... The camaro suspension is not currently set for a road course. But it would not surprise me if there is some some suspension bits from the z/28 that gets trickled down to the SS for the 2012 model year, similar to the track pack like the 2010 mustang. compared to the 2010 mustang (without track pack) the camaro handles faaaaar better, that what it was designed to compete with and succeeded. Ford has responded for the 2011 model year, so its GMs turn for 2012 model year which is the 45th year aniversary, so I am sure they have something cooking. In other words if some of our mustang comrades think that the camaro in its 2nd model year is at present the best its going to get until the 6th gen camaro, Then I think one should try taking the blue oval glasses off. In the end enthusiast wins.

I agree that on uneven pavement an IRS equipped car does ride smoother. However I'm not sure exactly where you drive, I very rarely come across uneven road surfaces. I do know the midwest states tend to have some really junk roads do to the weather among other things. This scenario I can completely understand. An IRS vs. a SRA on an older road in the southern states is almost unnoticeable. Of course there are many other components that effect the handling of a car. The 2012 Camaro without a doubt will get a revised suspension to make it more competitive with the 2011 Mustang. The 2012 SS will probably not get "some" suspension bits from the Z28. By your definition of faaaar better, just how much is far better?
The Camaro should handle FAR better then the 2011 Mustang. Yes the Mustang has a heavily reworked SRA, but it's still a SRA. In the automotive industry no one stands still. The 2012 Camaro as most think will be GM's turn again...but Ford will probably fire back in 2013. However Ford could also have something planned for the 2012. Both cars are always being improved this is basic knowledge mister gm.

[Sax1031]

Ford does have something planned for 2012. It is called the Boss.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Americanmuscle11

I agree that on uneven pavement an IRS equipped car does ride smoother. However I'm not sure exactly where you drive, I very rarely come across uneven road surfaces. I do know the midwest states tend to have some really junk roads do to the weather among other things. This scenario I can completely understand. An IRS vs. a SRA on an older road in the southern states is almost unnoticeable. Of course there are many other components that effect the handling of a car. The 2012 Camaro without a doubt will get a revised suspension to make it more competitive with the 2011 Mustang. The 2012 SS will probably not get "some" suspension bits from the Z28. By your definition of faaaar better, just how much is far better?
The Camaro should handle FAR better then the 2011 Mustang. Yes the Mustang has a heavily reworked SRA, but it's still a SRA. In the automotive industry no one stands still. The 2012 Camaro as most think will be GM's turn again...but Ford will probably fire back in 2013. However Ford could also have something planned for the 2012. Both cars are always being improved this is basic knowledge mister gm.

Dude...what is your expectation for a 3800-3900 lb vehicle that starts at 30k?

.1 second difference isnt competitive? any revision whatsoever will make it surpass the 2011 mustang GT.

The camaro should handle far better than the mustang GT? so you are saying it should also handle far better than an M3 for less than half the price?

Just because the camaro has IRS doesnt mean it should automatically outhandle/turn better times than the mustang. Yes IRS is better but in this case not good enough to overcome nearly 300 pounds when the two cars are almost identical in strait line performance. I really dont undertand the point you are trying to make when the camaro has superb handling for a 38-3900 lb car in this price range.

You either dont think the mustang or M3 is very good and/or you dont realize what you are saying...

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Ford does have something planned for 2012. It is called the Boss.

Not in the same price range as Mustang GT or Camaro SS.

Doesnt really matter in regards to the heated debate of Camaro SS vs Mustang GT.

Anything too far above SS or GT price range will be food for the base corvette.

If the Boss is anywhere near ~45k it will just be compared to the corvette...as it should be.

[Sax1031]

We will have to wait for official pricing of the Boss.

[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

We will have to wait for official pricing of the Boss.

Very true

Have you guys heard any kind of ideas/rumors at the ford camp?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

Ford does have something planned for 2012. It is called the Boss.

They had a Boss on display turned on the side at Woodward.

Torsen Differential --
Front Brake Ducts --
Well Built Engine --
Ordinary Suspension --
Side Exhaust Noise Loud Pipe --
Floating 1968 Style Rear Caliper --

It is a well executed Mustang and one any owner should be rightfully proud of. However, the Saleen and Camaro we tested two weeks ago would eat it alive on a road course and a driver's race at the strip.

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by EnvyTerra

it should?
What is the price on the boss?
also when did they start comparing 4 seater muscle cars to 2 seater sports car? totally different category of car.
what's next minivans vs scooters? and calling it the same type of vehicle.

very true, at least the M3 is similar.
The Boss will slot in-between the GT and GT500, that gives us a very good idea of the price. dealer will provably slap a 20k "market adjustment fee" or whatever they call it, so ill say 40k

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

They had a Boss on display turned on the side at Woodward.

Torsen Differential --
Front Brake Ducts --
Well Built Engine --
Ordinary Suspension --
Side Exhaust Noise Loud Pipe --
Floating 1968 Style Rear Caliper --

It is a well executed Mustang and one any owner should be rightfully proud of. However, the Saleen and Camaro we tested two weeks ago would eat it alive on a road course and a driver's race at the strip.

Ordinary Suspension?? how so?
the Boss has 5 point adjustable suspension, how is that ordinary?.
wait weren't those car's you tested modified from stock?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by snakekiller

Ordinary Suspension?? how so?
the Boss has 5 point adjustable suspension, how is that ordinary?.
wait weren't those car's you tested modified from stock?

If they were adjustable, I must have missed the adjustment. They appeared to be struts, shocks and springs. If I am missing something, please correct me.

Both the Camaro and Mustang are 'modified' in the sense that ALL Saleens, Roushes and Shelbies (?) are modified.

[JusticePete]

I just found the Ford press release.

Suspension and steering
In keeping with the Boss mandate to provide the best-handling Mustang ever, the already strong Mustang GT suspension system has been further refined. Higher-rate coil springs on all four corners, stiffer suspension bushings and a larger-diameter rear stabilizer bar all contribute to the road racing mission, and Boss models are lowered by 11 millimeters at the front and 1 millimeter at the rear versus the Mustang GT. The real key to handling, though, is in the adjustable shocks and struts, standard on all Boss Mustang models.

“We’ve given drivers five settings for their shocks,” says Brent Clark, supervisor of the Mustang vehicle dynamics team. “One is the softest, two is the factory setting and five is the firmest, and we’ve provided a wide range of adjustment. A customer can drive to the track on setting two, crank it up to five for improved response on the track, then dial down to one for a more relaxed ride home. What’s unique is that drivers will find – thanks to the way the suspension works as a complete system – the softest setting isn’t too loose and the firmest setting isn’t too controlled; each step just provides additional levels of control.”

Also unique is the method of shock adjustment. Ditching the weight and complexity of electronic wizardry, the Mustang team opted for traditional race-style hands-on adjustability – similar to the Gabriel shocks available on the original Boss 302.

“The shock adjustment is right at the top of the shock tower, built into the rod and easily accessible from under the hood or inside the trunk,” says Clark. “You just take a small flat-head screwdriver, turn the adjustment screw between one and five, and head back out onto the track.”

I will try to find out of this is a single bound or single rebound or fixed ratio adjustment. If some one else knows, please post up.

That said, for a road course car I still consider this ordinary. The Saleen ships with coilovers and camber plates making the Boss suspension or Shelby for that matter ordinary.

[Toyaholic]

Originally Posted by EnvyTerra

For some reason it seems as soon as a mustang outperforms a camaro it gets thrown to the 2 seater lightweight sportscar corvette? is that some kind of last resort counter-attack? come on guys let's keep it legit that doesn't make any sense and it's a cop-out.

Yup.... that's right, compare apples with apples. The question is are we comparing type of car to the same type or going for $ value? Both are valid comparisons. Just because the Boss has a back seat, does that mean we compare it to the SS? Welllllllll....... not really. If the price is in that $60K range, sounds like this will be a fight for the Z (if we ever see it).