Auto trans and N20........

[05SilverStreak]

Have been using 100 jet for a little bit. Car is begging for more, all seems safe......going to 125......Dry......yes.......dry.

[dan0617]

Originally Posted by 05SilverStreak

What kind of car and setup did you have on last car? *intersted*

Was a vette with a 383 all forged, stealth ram injection. Plugs were colder than stock but not cold enough. They were also protruded. For nitrous non protruded electrode plugs work best. Ones with cut back ground straps help keep from shrouding the spark.

[Irnwkrkev]

Originally Posted by 05SilverStreak

Have been using 100 jet for a little bit. Car is begging for more, all seems safe......going to 125......Dry......yes.......dry.

Still with stock timing huh? These engines make great power but are $,$$$ to replace!

[05SilverStreak]

I have been told by some that have used nitrous for years that a timing retard isnt really necessary untill you hit the 150 range. Also, with a dry system you actually have more protection from the ecm's and knock sensor than you do with a wet system. This way if the ecm or knock sensor sees an issue it will pull timing on its own. Its safer with dry on a newer fuel injected engine with all the computers and nannies that a wet system that is force feeding the power. I am not acting like and expert here, I am a NOS newbie. I have spoken with many old gear heads, shop tuners of 4 bangers and V8's. The word is that these engines don break a sweat with NOS around the 100 to 125 range. 150 or more a total timing retard of 2 degrees is recomended and to go wet from that point on. My car is running great on the button and I am not going past the 100 without and afr gauge or a dyno tune. Just my 2 cents. I dont imagine this will be popular opinion her, but I am trying to take all the information and make it useable.

[dan0617]

Good call on the AFR gauge. The opinion doesn't matter, only thing that matters is the AFR, the timing, and the plugs (and compression and EGT and such but you aren't that far into it).

Computer will pull timing with a wet kit just the same as a dry kit. Only difference from wet to dry is that with the dry you tune the computer to add extra fuel through injectors. Doing it your way (spraying across MAF) you are relying on things without knowing alot of info. An AFR gauge and/or reading spark plugs will give you most of that info. You also need to make sure you don't go too big for your injectors. If you do, you need bigger injectors (and then a tune for them).

Wet kit and AFR gauge and timing controller you can control everything and the computer is still there to pull timing for safety if you don't pull enough.

As long as the engine is getting what it needs you are good. I like dataloggimg with a wideband to know for sure. SCT setup and other logging and wideband setups aren't cheap but neither are these engines!

[05SilverStreak]

Agree 100% with you. Need to get some more gauges and other important things before going further. And your right, I am not that far into it. For how I am setup right now, (which is very simple) and the way things are working its just amazing what this stuff does. I sprayed only 5 pounds total through the motor before pulling the plugs and checking them. There were worn, but that could be the 40,000 miles they already had on them. They did have a red tint to themwhich I was afraid was detonation, but the porcelin was intact and looking ok. I took them to this guy in town who has alot of experience with NOS and he said it was the octane booster I was using, before I even told him I was using octane booster. So Im trying to stay informed. The one step colder plugs worked even better, smoother power delivery and hit pretty hard for being dry. And the fact that an auto will usually kick down two gears when you floor it, so the Nos on top of that makes it go pretty good. I like to post all the stuff I do, even if its bad, it brings out alot of different opinions from different levels of experience.

[Badbubba]

Originally Posted by 05SilverStreak

I have been told by some that have used nitrous for years that a timing retard isnt really necessary untill you hit the 150 range. Also, with a dry system you actually have more protection from the ecm's and knock sensor than you do with a wet system. This way if the ecm or knock sensor sees an issue it will pull timing on its own. Its safer with dry on a newer fuel injected engine with all the computers and nannies that a wet system that is force feeding the power. I am not acting like and expert here, I am a NOS newbie. I have spoken with many old gear heads, shop tuners of 4 bangers and V8's. The word is that these engines don break a sweat with NOS around the 100 to 125 range. 150 or more a total timing retard of 2 degrees is recomended and to go wet from that point on. My car is running great on the button and I am not going past the 100 without and afr gauge or a dyno tune. Just my 2 cents. I dont imagine this will be popular opinion her, but I am trying to take all the information and make it useable.

Not sure if the dry system is safer. Knock sensor is still active in a wet system along with everything else. How can a dry system properly fool the ecm to add the correct amount of fuel and maintain correct timing? I understand that when N2O changes state, from a liquid to a gas, it has a cooling effect. Therefore, iat sensor picks up the cooler temp and the maf will see more dense air. Great. So fuel will be added. But what about the oxygen, the oxidizer? How can it accurately compensate enough fuel for the added oxygen content of nitrous on a stock tune? The maf does not measure oxygen, it believes it is "regular" air, with approx a 21% oxygen content. Plus the ecm will probably try to advance timing due to cooler and denser air. Which you do not want. An oxidizer increases the burn speed, that is why you need to retard timing with nitrous. If not, you will get detonation. You may be able to get away with it on a 50 shot, but anymore ??????? If everything works out ok, that's good. But at some point, you have to ask the question how and why. Or at least I have to, to understand how it is working. Eager to see the afr and the datalogs. As it has been said before, got to have an adequate fuel supply, not just a high octane, and watch the duty cycle of the injectors. Keep the updates coming.

[Nitro Dave]

I have no idea who some of you guys are talking to for advice but I would pick up the phone and call a professional. The people that are giving you advice should not be.

1. It is common for some new model GM efi cars actually show a small amount of knock retard from the factory these days. Not verifying timing on nitrous is just asking for a blown up engine.

2. A dry system has no more protection than a wet system. The only difference between the two is the fact that a wet system mix the fuel and nitrous together injecting it into the engine. A dry system injects the nitrous and requires the cars computer to add the fuel through the injectors. To be honest with you if anything a a dry system, using the factory PCM is actually more complicated to tune if anything.

3. Spark plug choice, Dialing in the air fuel and verifying timing on a nitrous engine is very important. Nitrous is a great, cost effective power adder but there is a right way and a wrong way to doing it. Following bad advice will eventually lead to nothing but putting a motor in the car.

Dave

[05SilverStreak]

Thanks Dave. I try to post everthing I am doing and what I am told. That way it keeps all of the different opinions coming.

Edit: Sometime I will say stupid shit before I do it just to see who posts what. Sometimes when you post simple direct questions no one will post or very few. It seems we all get more responses form the post that com from a, "Look you dumbass, your doing it wrong". This way I seem to be getting more useable information from all experience levels. Thanks to those who have posted, I see we have two other Nitrous newb threads inhere and frankly I think the usefule information is in here. Maybe sad to say, But I am convinced that on my simple 100 dry shot with no timing retard and colder plugs I am ok for now, even with the hypertech tune. Its not like Im running the 1/4 mile yet every weekend. Just short bursts here and there. But the other side of it is if something goes wrong and I screw myself, Ill own it.

[dan0617]

I think you would be ok on stock tune but on hypertech tune I'd bet money it is detonating, then the computer's knock retard system picks it up and retards the timing. Be OK for a while but that detonation is harmful over time.

[05SilverStreak]

Agreed, gonna get rid of it soon and get custom tune. Checking plugs after every use. But not using it very much of course.