Do you think GM missed the ball my making the z/28 a track only car?

[Doc]

Originally Posted by KSCamaro

The difference is between an option package and an entirely different car.
What it was, to what it was turned into.
If this new car means something to you, enjoy. Look at it in the garage or put it on the track & tear it up. They should have called this new car a Camaro TB.
Leave the z/28 as a performance option and keep your novelty Track Bastid seperate. But, what's done is done. Things change and not always for the best.
I also did not make any "garage statue" remark, that's my signature.
I'm not surprised by how much folks will spend on upgrading their cars, the aftermarket is huge. You can look all over these forums and see some impressive mods and beautiful cars. One more reason that it wasn't necessary to reinvent or destroy an icon.

The Z28 would be an option package. The Z/28 is in fact an entirely different car. They may come out with the Z28 option in the future; especially once the Z/28 starts bringing in the racing glory. There is a difference in the designation; Z28 versus Z/28. You seem to be confusing the two. It's a very significant difference. There's absolutely nothing to say they won't add a Z28 option the same way they've added a 1LE option. It would probably be basically a 1LE with an appearance package and maybe a bit more horsepower. It would not be a Z/28. This is something I would expect in the 6th gen and maybe we'll see it. In the meantime I'm thrilled at what this new Z/28 is going to mean to the racing world.

[2cnd chance]

He's made his point we've made ours. There's no convincing to be done here either way.

In the immortal words of Rambo, "let it go!"

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Richy_Rich

I think I see why GM opted not to stick an LS7 in a current chassis and place it between the 1LE and ZL1; the weight to power ratio would be too close to the new Z/28.

But... with the Z/28 being a track prepped car, there could be a gap car made for the space between 1LE and ZL1 as a factory street brawler.

SS, 426hp/3860lbs = 8.8 hp per pound
1LE,426hp/3800lbs= 9.0hp per pound
- OPTION???
-- 1LE with an LS7 (~505hp/3800lbs) = 7.6hp per pound

Z/28, 505hp/3800lbs = 7.5hp per pound
ZL1, 580hp/4120lbs = 7.10hp per pound


NEW Z/28 -
BASE PRICE $60,000 (est)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD, 4-pass, 2-door coupe
ENGINE 7.0L/500-hp (est)/470-lb-ft (est) OHV 16-valve V-8
TRANSMISSIONS 6-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT 3800 lb (est)
WHEELBASE 112.3 in
LENGTH X WIDTH X HEIGHT 192.3 x 76.9 x 52.4 in
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON Not yet rated
ON SALE IN U.S. Spring 2014

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2P8LFsfdq

Might want to recheck some of your math. And it's pounds per HP.

[KSCamaro]

Originally Posted by Doc

The Z28 would be an option package. The Z/28 is in fact an entirely different car. They may come out with the Z28 option in the future; especially once the Z/28 starts bringing in the racing glory. There is a difference in the designation; Z28 versus Z/28. You seem to be confusing the two. It's a very significant difference. There's absolutely nothing to say they won't add a Z28 option the same way they've added a 1LE option. It would probably be basically a 1LE with an appearance package and maybe a bit more horsepower. It would not be a Z/28. This is something I would expect in the 6th gen and maybe we'll see it. In the meantime I'm thrilled at what this new Z/28 is going to mean to the racing world.

I'm glad that you are thrilled with it, I'm usually excited about new models as well. But, I am not confusing anything. The heritage of the Z28, or Z/28 whichever you prefer, was as an option. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Chevrolet did not stay true to the heritage as much as they diverged from it. It just seemed unnecessary with the positioning of the ZL1.

There was no original intent for there to be different models of Z28 versus Z slash 28. Those definitions were made up later.

http://camaros.us/camaro-z28-history-first-gen/

“My proposal went on that since our projected engine lineup for the 1967 Camaro had no V-8 smaller than the 327, and since we were above the 5000cc (305-cid) SCCA displacement limit for Class A sedans, we ought to take a high-performance version of the old 283 and wrap an option package around it to make it competitive within SCCA. "

Good luck, you should have no problem getting one.

[LOWDOWN]

It stems from the common misnomer of "power-to-weight" when, in fact, being signified as "lb/hp" it rightly should be commonly expressed as "weight-to-power".

[Doc]

Originally Posted by KSCamaro

I'm glad that you are thrilled with it, I'm usually excited about new models as well. But, I am not confusing anything. The heritage of the Z28, or Z/28 whichever you prefer, was as an option. That's what rubs me the wrong way. Chevrolet did not stay true to the heritage as much as they diverged from it. It just seemed unnecessary with the positioning of the ZL1.

There was no original intent for there to be different models of Z28 versus Z slash 28. Those definitions were made up later.

http://camaros.us/camaro-z28-history-first-gen/

“My proposal went on that since our projected engine lineup for the 1967 Camaro had no V-8 smaller than the 327, and since we were above the 5000cc (305-cid) SCCA displacement limit for Class A sedans, we ought to take a high-performance version of the old 283 and wrap an option package around it to make it competitive within SCCA. "

Good luck, you should have no problem getting one.

All models of all cars are an "option" if you prefer to think of it that way. Nobody is making you buy anything. It was called a production option because that's usually what these kinds of things are the very first time they appear, especially back then with a brand new car they'd never made before. But the original Z/28 was designed specifically for racing not street use, hence the references to SCCA requirements.

Chevrolet is in fact staying true to the heritage of making the new Z/28 for racing as the rules for production classes require you to run within very defined restrictions. You can't just wildly start modifying a production car for the track to make it competitive because then it's no longer a production car; it's a custom race car. Engines, drivetrains, wheel sizes, brakes, etc. are restricted to what's produced for the class so having these things come from the factory is a big deal so it can be run in a race.

I don't need luck; I already pretty much have a Z/28 with the mods I've done to my 2010 1SS, thus I don't plan on buying a 2014 Z/28. The 6th gen might be a different story.

Instead of being "rubbed the wrong way" because Chevrolet didn't make the exact perfect car you wanted, why don't you do what everybody else does? Start with a car level you can afford, then mod it to where you would like it to be. I already have more horsepower than the new Z has so it's fairly easy to mod the LS3 to get the power you want. That and buy some Z/28 badges, slap it on a new 2014 1LE and presto; you're happy.

Here, check out my project thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165

You'll find all kinds of useful ideas in there to make your own version of what Chevy "should have done".

I think Chevy did it right with this new model; it's going to be a landmark car. If you don't like it, make your own version. All the elements are available to mod a 2014 SS or 1LE so you'll have the new style.

[KSCamaro]

Originally Posted by Doc

Instead of being "rubbed the wrong way" because Chevrolet didn't make the exact perfect car you wanted, why don't you do what everybody else does? Start with a car level you can afford, then mod it to where you would like it to be. I already have more horsepower than the new Z has so it's fairly easy to mod the LS3 to get the power you want. That and buy some Z/28 badges, slap it on a new 2014 1LE and presto; you're happy.

Here, check out my project thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165

You'll find all kinds of useful ideas in there to make your own version of what Chevy "should have done".

I think Chevy did it right with this new model; it's going to be a landmark car. If you don't like it, make your own version. All the elements are available to mod a 2014 SS or 1LE so you'll have the new style.

I'd never slap a badge on a car and try to present it as something that it is not. That's not my thing. I wish Chevy had not turned this package into something that it never was, but it doesn't matter. It's just my opinion and what's done is done. I have no desire to own their new version of a 'Z', regardless of if they want to slap a slash on the badge or not, they were both option packages. I just see this re-creation as a track novelty and not a drivers car. I stopped an order of a brand new 2012 SS to wait for this announcement that I believed would happen regardless of the lies told on this forum. It may be a landmark car to put up numbers higher than Ford on the track, which appears to be it's primary role.
Reading about the justification for the 2014 changes didn't help either. I read that one change was made "because you wanted it", my initial thought is "No, I liked that as it was." And the next change "because you wanted it", No, I liked that too. Have there been threads in the last 2 years complaining about the mail slot or wanting a hood extractor? The tail lights and rear spoiler, who had a problem with those?
These are just rhetorical questions, it really doesn't matter. Changes will always be made, it doesn't matter if you like it or not. The Camaro 'Z' is dead to me, it means absolutely nothing. The performance package heritage has become a novelty track toy & a joke. I'm sure there is a small segment of folks that will be happy about it, I'm just not one of them.
If I choose to spend that much on a car next year, I'd go with the C7 Stingray anyway. That team did an impressive job.

Alrighty, that's only a small part of my feelings towards the announcement, just a few bullet points but it's enough. I really have no desire to discuss it or even think about the stepchild version anymore. I do appreciate your rational discussion. There are enough people on these forums that only come here to agree with each other and pat each other on the back, they don't have any real desire to discuss anything.

Keep the shiny side up.

[Crim]

Originally Posted by KSCamaro

Alrighty, that's only a small part of my feelings towards the announcement, just a few bullet points but it's enough. I really have no desire to discuss it or even think about the stepchild version anymore. I do appreciate your rational discussion. There are enough people on these forums that only come here to agree with each other and pat each other on the back, they don't have any real desire to discuss anything.

Keep the shiny side up.

WoW... I seriously don't think they could have done anything to please you... now bashing the people who like the Z/28 like they have no opinion of their own.

[2cnd chance]

Wow is right! Self-centered much? Dismissive much? Having an opinion is one thing, being completely offensive is another. I'm sure there are a number of individuals that are glad your not wanting to discuss this (or anything) further.

[KSCamaro]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Wow is right! Self-centered much? Dismissive much? Having an opinion is one thing, being completely offensive is another. I'm sure there are a number of individuals that are glad your not wanting to discuss this (or anything) further.

Nope. I didn't bash anyone and how exactly am I being offensive?

You can browse through plenty of threads and see folks getting bashed for their opinions. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm talking about a car and you are the one making comments about me.

"...people patting each other on the back.." that happens all the time around here, I wasn't referring specifically to this thread, just in general.

You can express your opinion without getting personal, that's a choice.

[yenkotown]

They absolutely did the right thing......most of these replies seem to me that people want to buy a LOGO, not a Z28. And they're pissed that they can't afford to pay the entry.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by yenkotown

They absolutely did the right thing......most of these replies seem to me that people want to buy a LOGO, not a Z28. And they're pissed that they can't afford to pay the entry.

I somewhat agree. I bet most of the people are bitching bc this car is gonna cost some serious coin, alot more than many initially thought.

[Stitch]

Nope. I can't believe GM went as extreme on the 'track oriented' design as they did, but I applaud them for it.

Anyone who want 'daily amenities' in a Z/28 clearly doesn't understand the heritage of this car.


...and

Originally Posted by Forty5th

to the Doc.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by KSCamaro

Nope. I didn't bash anyone and how exactly am I being offensive?

You can browse through plenty of threads and see folks getting bashed for their opinions. I'm not calling anyone out. I'm talking about a car and you are the one making comments about me.

"...people patting each other on the back.." that happens all the time around here, I wasn't referring specifically to this thread, just in general.

You can express your opinion without getting personal, that's a choice.

The Z/28 Section, for a long time the "forgotten Section", has a LOT of "history", here. WAY beyond last Wednesday. And for a very long time our unrequited love of, and formulae for, a "suitably equipped and badged" Z/28 was the common bond. So yes, we're guilty of an argument or three, cross-pollenation...and "support". We don't have 12 Steps, but this is where the "meetings" were/are held. And as with any other 12 Step-like program, we have established a culture, yet we try to be as inclusive as possible. No fees or faults required, other than the distinguishable PASSION many/most folks here possess. Silly us.

But, every once in a while, folks show up, think we're a brand new Club, don't respect the Charter, barge right in and step up to the podium to tell us how we should/shouldn't act and/or react. We take umbridge, sometimes, to that sorta "guidance". Silly us, again.

Please forgive us, for we did not know...

BTW, welcome.