[Blackdevil77]

This looks informative. Too bad I don't understand what the hell he's saying. Anybody speak spanish?

[ParisTNDude]

I spent a year debating performance specifics between the 5th Gen Camaro and the Coyote engined Mustang. He is without question, the most obnoxious Ford fanboy of the ages. He's the guy that said Chevrolet couldn't build a SBC with direct injection...it's impossible, he would say. Well, guess what.....

I can't even imagine what he says when he watches the comparison between the "new, lighter weight, more HP" Mustang track pack and the 2015 Camaro 1LE? I bet he didn't sleep for many a night after the 1LE spanked the newest Mustang GT as badly as it did!

Good luck, Pill. You're going to lose a lot of sleep when they compare the new Camaro base with the latest Mustang 5.0 base.

[cyberbro]

Ok here is the translation:

He says he likes it. Then he went on to say he was not voting for Trump! lol

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Oh...and just so you know...yes thePill trolls this site all the time, and is actually taking credit for this argument.

If that doesn't give you guys a laugh, and make you feel sorry for that little man, I don't know what will.....oh wait just read a few of his other posts and they will do it also

He states:



So...Number 3. You said you were tapping out. Understandable, but now he is using you in his propaganda. lol. I bet you feel special.

Looks like you hit a nerve over there.

[Subperfect]

I have hopped in and out of this thread... It's better than a soap opera

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by cyberbro

Ok here is the translation:

He says he likes it. Then he went on to say he was not voting for Trump! lol

Lmao that was a whole lot of words for "The new Camaro is nice, vote for Hilary."

[GretchenGotGrowl]

I guess I'm more in line with Number3 than most of you. GM promised it would be built on a lighter platform, not that the final product would be lighter than the Gen5. Now Al O and GM marketing have dropped some hints about it weighing less, but they are kind of vague and I don't consider them a promise of anything. Here's what I understood them to say...

1) Model for model there has been at least a 200 lb drop in weight. That means one could be exactly 200 lbs lighter.

2) Al O said the SS will be over 200 lbs lighter. That could mean 201 lbs.

3) Al O said the LT (we don't know which engine) would be closer to 300 lbs. 202 lbs is closer to 300 lbs than 201 lbs. is.

I haven't heard them say if these are dry weights or curb weights. I haven't heard them promise anything except it will be on a lighter platform and that they have tried to save weight everywhere they could. If you are going to be disappointed that a Gen 6 LT doesn't weight 275-299 lbs less than a Gen 5 LT, then that's not because of promise GM or Al O made you...you read too much into what has been said.

Of course, I could have missed something along the way. If so, I stand corrected.

[Number 3]

Tapping back in.............lol

My point isn't what the mass will be. I expect that it will be a very good number(s).

My point is ONLY that it was not a promise or being lied to. That is taking these numbers to a personal level that is just simply not necessary.

The car wasn't and isn't even done yet. They may have things or will find things in CTF that will change parts and change weight.

And in the end, yes, it may be very difficult to do the "trim for trim" comparison.

No one wants Al to get caught lying more than me. But giving weight numbers before a car is done is an indicator of current status, not a promise.

The car won't be done until Job 1 "production".

And to be clear, I don't work there anymore. But I am a Chief Engineer and having gone through mass reduction projects, I know what I report and I know what that get's translated to in the message to our customers. And until my team is DONE and validated, those numbers are status, not commitment.

There, now tapping back out.

[xgnxs]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

I guess I'm more in line with Number3 than most of you. GM promised it would be built on a lighter platform, not that the final product would be lighter than the Gen5. Now Al O and GM marketing have dropped some hints about it weighing less, but they are kind of vague and I don't consider them a promise of anything. Here's what I understood them to say...

1) Model for model there has been at least a 200 lb drop in weight. That means one could be exactly 200 lbs lighter.

2) Al O said the SS will be over 200 lbs lighter. That could mean 201 lbs.

3) Al O said the LT (we don't know which engine) would be closer to 300 lbs. 202 lbs is closer to 300 lbs than 201 lbs. is.

I haven't heard them say if these are dry weights or curb weights. I haven't heard them promise anything except it will be on a lighter platform and that they have tried to save weight everywhere they could. If you are going to be disappointed that a Gen 6 LT doesn't weight 275-299 lbs less than a Gen 5 LT, then that's not because of promise GM or Al O made you...you read too much into what has been said.

Of course, I could have missed something along the way. If so, I stand corrected.

http://www.*********media.com/produc...16-camaro.html

Lightweight architecture and chassis systems
Approximately 70 percent of the architectural components are unique to Camaro. Through extensive computer-aided engineering, structural rigidity was increased by 28 percent, while the body-in-white mass was reduced by 133 pounds (60.5 kg).

In their quest to make the 2016 Camaro as lean as possible, engineers and designers evaluated every aspect of its architecture – already the most mass-efficient ever created by GM – and supporting elements, saving grams here and pounds there that contributes to the car’s lower curb weight. As a result, the total curb weight for Camaro has been reduced by more than 200 pounds (90 kg).

Total curb weight reduced by more than 200 lbs. Now, you might be correct in that when they started work on the 6th gen it was actually heavier than the 5th gen, but through weight savings, it is 200 lbs less than when it started, which actually ends up being only 50 lbs lighter than the 5th gen. But paired with the "200 lb loss, model to model" statement, it is fair to assume they are in fact talking about a 200 lb curb weight loss compared to the 5th gen.

[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by xgnxs

http://www.*********media.com/produc...16-camaro.html



Total curb weight reduced by more than 200 lbs. Now, you might be correct in that when they started work on the 6th gen it was actually heavier than the 5th gen, but through weight savings, it is 200 lbs less than when it started, which actually ends up being only 50 lbs lighter than the 5th gen. But paired with the "200 lb loss, model to model" statement, it is fair to assume they are in fact talking about a 200 lb curb weight loss compared to the 5th gen.

I agree, but again that is marketing (*********media.com). It comes back to what is a promise (and being lied to) vs what a status of the product development is. Here's an analogy:

It is my night to cook dinner. Before I leave for work I as the wife what time she will be home so I can plan around her. She says 6:30 so we agree to eat at 7:00. Something comes at work so she can't leave on time. Then she gets stuck in traffic and calls me to say she'll be a little later. Then her mom calls and says her refrigerator is acting up, another detour. My wife eventually gets home at 8:00. Did she lie to me. Not in my mind. She had status changes as her day developed that prevented her from meeting her stated goal.

We won't know the curb weight of the 6th Gen until the first production one rolls off the line. If it ends up being 189 lbs I won't feel lied to any more than I feel lied to when my wife is late getting home.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

I guess I'm more in line with Number3 than most of you. GM promised it would be built on a lighter platform, not that the final product would be lighter than the Gen5. Now Al O and GM marketing have dropped some hints about it weighing less, but they are kind of vague and I don't consider them a promise of anything. Here's what I understood them to say...

1) Model for model there has been at least a 200 lb drop in weight. That means one could be exactly 200 lbs lighter.

2) Al O said the SS will be over 200 lbs lighter. That could mean 201 lbs.

3) Al O said the LT (we don't know which engine) would be closer to 300 lbs. 202 lbs is closer to 300 lbs than 201 lbs. is.

I haven't heard them say if these are dry weights or curb weights. I haven't heard them promise anything except it will be on a lighter platform and that they have tried to save weight everywhere they could. If you are going to be disappointed that a Gen 6 LT doesn't weight 275-299 lbs less than a Gen 5 LT, then that's not because of promise GM or Al O made you...you read too much into what has been said.

Of course, I could have missed something along the way. If so, I stand corrected.

I see nothing wrong with what you've said here.

I will say that as far as curb weight or not, there is an official GM release floating around out there (back when GM was showing teaser images of gen 6 before it was released) that stated curb weight.

Never mind...that was covered above...I responded before looking. Oops.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Number 3

....

No one wants Al to get caught lying more than me. ...

What????? lol. Aha...so your true colors do come out!!

Just kidding!!

[90503]

Well, FWIW, I'm tapping out on this one....What a croc of bs....Some of you and the Pill deserve each other....Good luck with your interpretation of the English language. With that and the Pill's calculations and theories, you will all have a bright future together....Congratulations and Farewell!

P.S. Don't take the above too literally. It may not mean what it actually says.

[SuperSound]

I understand your points but perception is quite another thing. The perception is a weight reduction range was given comparing to the outgoing model for the LT and SS cars. Like I said earlier this is no different than giving an estimation of HP rating to many. Common sense tells you to "underestimate" performance not overestimate it. Then when you get to final production numbers you can exceed expectations.

Even as recent as CamaroFest, these ranges were restated and there have been no changes. CTF cars were probably already in production or close to it at that time. While the weights are not final, I would think it impossible to see more than 50lbs added/subtracted at this point. Anything else probably means a giant screw up which I don't is possible this late stage. Also why would you put journalist in cars and let them drive something that was going to weight 50lbs or more less than a production car? That will be noticeable to these car guys.

Also I don't see anything vague in any of the statements. Words like "outgoing model" and "model to model" were used. There was a '15 1LT, 2LT, 1SS, 2SS and there are '16 versions. The new autos are lighter than old, the manual the same. It's not like they have said there will be 200-300lbs drop in weight depending on options and trims now is it?

So all of this means the perception is exactly what has been stated. Regardless of whether you think it's just ball park figures, pre-production numbers, or just them blowing smoke up everyone's butt. If they don't "prove" what they said, the competition's perception will be GM being unable to hit stated targets, most of us on this site will feel we were purposely mislead, and the automotive media will have a field day with articles about "how the weights didn't add up in the end".

Again maybe you guys are used to corporate and political statements being filled with caveats and overestimations. I don't feel like Team Camaro would state anything they couldn't do, as many times as they have, in as many different media sources, about the primary focus of this generation...period.