Official: 2013 Camaro 1LE Performance Package: 426-hp, 1g cornering, under $40,000

[cbass]

Originally Posted by newb

Sounds like you want a Mustang to me...

If I wanted a mustang, then I would have ordered a mustang instead of ordering a 1LE camaro. Why is it that if you own a camaro you can't be objective about it?
And if you want to know, then I will let you know why I ordered a camaro over a mustang.

1. Looks. I have the same problem with women: I usually go for the best looking one. The first gen camaro was my favorite muscle car when it came to appearance. The 5th gen hits the spot when it comes to looks.

2. Transmission. I wanted a manual transmission car and the TR6060 is a more solid unit than the MT82 that comes on the Mustang. I can't buy a Chinese made transmission based on previous bad experiences and on people having issues.

3. Engine. I like the LS3 engine much better than the coyote. Both are great engines, but I think the LS3 is the better engine.

4. Comfort. I find the camaro to be a very comfortable car with excellent ride quality. I was not as comfortable in the mustang and it felt to be more cramped.

5. Quality. The 1LE has some serious components when it comes to engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, etc. I believe that it will hold up better.

6. North American parts content. It's close, but the camaro has a higher percentage than the mustang and it's important to me.

The mustang is still the ligher, faster, less expensive car with a better set of features and HID standard. I also like how you can rotate the wheels on the mustang. I do not like the staggered setup on a camaro.

[SummoneR]

Originally Posted by cbass

I have done my research and I disagree. My money went to GM, but it cost me a lot more than I could have gotten a mustang for and that wasn't including features on the mustang that come for free that you have to pay for on the camaro like HID headlights and features that you can't get on the camaro like track apps and LED taillights. The track pack mustang can pull off 0.98 g. The 1LE claims 1g, but that is with some huge wheels. The v6 with smaller wheels can pull 0.82 g and with the RS package that gives it SS wheels it can pull 0.90 g. Wheels/tires can make a significant difference even with the same chassis.

Mustang is lighter
Mustang is faster
Mustang is cheaper. Mustang MSRP is lower. Mustang Invoice Price is lower as there is more markup. Mustang incentives are greater.
Mustang has more features

I did my research too. In 2000 I bought a Mustang GT over a Camaro SS. In order to get that Mustang close to performing as well as the Camaro it would have cost me $6,000-$8,000 in add ons. Which would have put it at or over what it would have cost to buy the Camaro. Not much has changed since then. The mustang may be lighter, but faster? hardly. Handles better on the turns? Maybe on a mountain road but not on a track for sure.

Awesome on your order of a 1LE.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by 1LEE

I friggin love the dual mode exhaust!!

Me too, and I've only heard it on a computer.

[1LEE]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

Me too, and I've only heard it on a computer.

Same here, haha.

I need to get my ass over to the dealership to see how much they would give me on a trade in.

I need a Camaro 1LE now!!

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by cbass

If I wanted a mustang, then I would have ordered a mustang instead of ordering a 1LE camaro. Why is it that if you own a camaro you can't be objective about it?
And if you want to know, then I will let you know why I ordered a camaro over a mustang.

1. Looks. I have the same problem with women: I usually go for the best looking one. The first gen camaro was my favorite muscle car when it came to appearance. The 5th gen hits the spot when it comes to looks.

2. Transmission. I wanted a manual transmission car and the TR6060 is a more solid unit than the MT82 that comes on the Mustang. I can't buy a Chinese made transmission based on previous bad experiences and on people having issues.

3. Engine. I like the LS3 engine much better than the coyote. Both are great engines, but I think the LS3 is the better engine.

4. Comfort. I find the camaro to be a very comfortable car with excellent ride quality. I was not as comfortable in the mustang and it felt to be more cramped.

5. Quality. The 1LE has some serious components when it comes to engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, etc. I believe that it will hold up better.

6. North American parts content. It's close, but the camaro has a higher percentage than the mustang and it's important to me.

The mustang is still the ligher, faster, less expensive car with a better set of features and HID standard. I also like how you can rotate the wheels on the mustang. I do not like the staggered setup on a camaro.

My friend life is a compromise. The only way to get it all is to buy the best/priciest item. Or you can through the aftermarket make it what you want.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by cbass

This will all come down to whether the 1LE will be able to perform and beat the mustang. The 1LE has some nice upgrades, but compared to a mustang GT with a track pack I could have saved $5-7K buying the mustang. If the 1LE can't beat the boss around a track, then it will be a sad day for GM and me.

It would be an interesting comparison doing a few laps with both cars bone stock. However anybody buying either of these cars is not likely to leave them stock. The 1LE looks to be a fantastic starting point with the heavy-duy items you would want already done by GM.


Things I would change immediately before going on the track:

Upgrade the brake lines to stainless steel and upgrade the brake fluid. You want the improved braking feel of the better lines, and the higher boiling-point of a racing brake fluid.


Things I would do over time:

I would change the wheels; I'm probably in the minority but I don't like the ZL1/1LE wheels. I would get a lighter set of 19's or maybe even 18's as a track set. And I would probably choose a different tire to chew up on the track instead of the very expensive Goodyear Supercars.

If the 1LE has the same rear cradle bushings the SS does (which it may have since I don't see anything in GM's documentation that says otherwise) then I'd definitely upgrade those to Pedder's bushings.

I'd have to see how the improved shocks the 1LE has perform but I'd still consider Pedder's coilovers unless the stock units surprise me.

I'd go with a 1-piece driveshaft from DSS to improve drive-train efficiency and get more hp to the rear wheels.

I'd change the brake rotors to the lighter 2-piece rotors from Racing Brake.

I'd get the car corner-balanced.

Intake, cam and exhaust is a whole 'nother story. I'd do those last after getting the chassis dialed in.

I think the 1LE is going to be a fantastic, reliable track car. I like the looks of the Camaro far better; although I've seen a few Mustangs on the street that look pretty good, to me the Camaro has a much more "complete" look whereas the Mustang looks like 3 different teams designed it.

As far as the Camaro beating the Mustang with a track pack; it will most likely come down to the driver. The Mustang is no slouch on the track. The Camaro should have the edge on the longer, faster tracks; it might be pretty close on shorter, slower tracks with lots of corners. But in that kind of shoot-out I would much rather be in a Camaro.

Just my 2 1/2 cents.

[caverman]

Originally Posted by cbass

If I wanted a mustang, then I would have ordered a mustang instead of ordering a 1LE camaro. Why is it that if you own a camaro you can't be objective about it?
And if you want to know, then I will let you know why I ordered a camaro over a mustang.

1. Looks. I have the same problem with women: I usually go for the best looking one. The first gen camaro was my favorite muscle car when it came to appearance. The 5th gen hits the spot when it comes to looks.

2. Transmission. I wanted a manual transmission car and the TR6060 is a more solid unit than the MT82 that comes on the Mustang. I can't buy a Chinese made transmission based on previous bad experiences and on people having issues.

3. Engine. I like the LS3 engine much better than the coyote. Both are great engines, but I think the LS3 is the better engine.

4. Comfort. I find the camaro to be a very comfortable car with excellent ride quality. I was not as comfortable in the mustang and it felt to be more cramped.

5. Quality. The 1LE has some serious components when it comes to engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, etc. I believe that it will hold up better.

6. North American parts content. It's close, but the camaro has a higher percentage than the mustang and it's important to me.

All of which are reasons Ford has to discount the Mustang in order to get people to buy them right now.

[DanSS24]

Originally Posted by Doc

It would be an interesting comparison doing a few laps with both cars bone stock. However anybody buying either of these cars is not likely to leave them stock. The 1LE looks to be a fantastic starting point with the heavy-duy items you would want already done by GM.


Things I would change immediately before going on the track:

Upgrade the brake lines to stainless steel and upgrade the brake fluid. You want the improved braking feel of the better lines, and the higher boiling-point of a racing brake fluid.


Things I would do over time:

I would change the wheels; I'm probably in the minority but I don't like the ZL1/1LE wheels. I would get a lighter set of 19's or maybe even 18's as a track set. And I would probably choose a different tire to chew up on the track instead of the very expensive Goodyear Supercars.

If the 1LE has the same rear cradle bushings the SS does (which it may have since I don't see anything in GM's documentation that says otherwise) then I'd definitely upgrade those to Pedder's bushings.

I'd have to see how the improved shocks the 1LE has perform but I'd still consider Pedder's coilovers unless the stock units surprise me.

I'd go with a 1-piece driveshaft from DSS to improve drive-train efficiency and get more hp to the rear wheels.

I'd change the brake rotors to the lighter 2-piece rotors from Racing Brake.

I'd get the car corner-balanced.

Intake, cam and exhaust is a whole 'nother story. I'd do those last after getting the chassis dialed in.

I think the 1LE is going to be a fantastic, reliable track car. I like the looks of the Camaro far better; although I've seen a few Mustangs on the street that look pretty good, to me the Camaro has a much more "complete" look whereas the Mustang looks like 3 different teams designed it.

As far as the Camaro beating the Mustang with a track pack; it will most likely come down to the driver. The Mustang is no slouch on the track. The Camaro should have the edge on the longer, faster tracks; it might be pretty close on shorter, slower tracks with lots of corners. But in that kind of shoot-out I would much rather be in a Camaro.

Just my 2 1/2 cents.

I like your way of thinking. Horsepower is of no use if your suspension/brakes/chassis is not up to par. I know once I get a 1LE, it will get a few suspension pieces. But the first thing I want to do is lighten the car a little bit. I hope the suspension aftermarket worked on that, without sacrificing strength and durability.

[cbass]

Upgrade the brake lines to stainless steel and upgrade the brake fluid. You want the improved braking feel of the better lines, and the higher boiling-point of a racing brake fluid.

Funny thing is the mustang with track pack comes with track brake pads. I don't believe the 1LE does.

I would change the wheels; I'm probably in the minority but I don't like the ZL1/1LE wheels. I would get a lighter set of 19's or maybe even 18's as a track set. And I would probably choose a different tire to chew up on the track instead of the very expensive Goodyear Supercars.

Can you run 18's or 19's on a camaro with the brembo brakes?

As far as the Camaro beating the Mustang with a track pack; it will most likely come down to the driver. The Mustang is no slouch on the track. The Camaro should have the edge on the longer, faster tracks; it might be pretty close on shorter, slower tracks with lots of corners. But in that kind of shoot-out I would much rather be in a Camaro.

The thing is that it should beat the Mustang with the track pack easily. GM lists the competitor to be the Boss 302 LS. Will it beat the Boss 302 LS at the track? I am thinking no, but we shall find out. Mustang GT with Track Pack vs. Camaro 1SS 1LE is $3500 cheaper MSRP.

[cbass]

All of which are reasons Ford has to discount the Mustang in order to get people to buy them right now.

Not sure why they are discounting, but the mustang has been picked as the car of the year a few times and when it comes to handling, acceleration, and price it has the camaro SS beat. A mustang has been in the top 5 in Motortrends best handling cars. And look how many mustangs with the new 5.0 make it into the 11's with bolt-ons and tires. Ford has built a car that really performs.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by cbass

Funny thing is the mustang with track pack comes with track brake pads. I don't believe the 1LE does.



Can you run 18's or 19's on a camaro with the brembo brakes?



The thing is that it should beat the Mustang with the track pack easily. GM lists the competitor to be the Boss 302 LS. Will it beat the Boss 302 LS at the track? I am thinking no, but we shall find out. Mustang GT with Track Pack vs. Camaro 1SS 1LE is $3500 cheaper MSRP.

Yes you can run 19's for sure, and depending on the wheel, you can run 18's. I've got 19 x 9.5's on mine and they clear the Brembos.

The Laguna Seca 302 is a track performer but it has that live rear axle which should give the edge to the 1LE due to it's superior rear suspension. It will be close but I would give the nod to the Camaro if the driver knows how to use it.

People think horsepower is everything you need to go fast but that's not the case. A dialed-in chassis that handles and corners well is going to make a huge difference; more than just hp believe it or not. Cars with more hp than mine were a bit faster on the straights but that evaporated rather quickly when we hit the curves. I was able to hold speed longer before braking, could corner faster and flatter which gave me better exit speeds. Despite their hp advantage I still posted the fastest time in my group at the end of the session.

Get a 1LE's chassis dialed in and adding power will be easy. It has the drive-train you'd need to handle it. If I'd had a 1LE to start with before doing all the mods I've done to my 2010 SS my car would be unreal right now. It's damn good as is. A built-out 1LE is going to be ferocious.

I don't see a 1LE beating a Laguna Seca 302 "easily" however given a decent driver I think it will in fact beat it by the end of a session.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by DanSS24

I like your way of thinking. Horsepower is of no use if your suspension/brakes/chassis is not up to par. I know once I get a 1LE, it will get a few suspension pieces. But the first thing I want to do is lighten the car a little bit. I hope the suspension aftermarket worked on that, without sacrificing strength and durability.

Considering the beefed up components and extra cooler, I'm surprised the 1LE is only a few pounds heavier than a stock SS. If you want to remove weight, remove the right kind of weight so it benefits the kind of performance you want on a road course.

Removing weight has been one of my obsessions with my car and I've put quite a bit of documentation about that in my project thread:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165

I think you'll find a lot of useful info that hopefully will help you with your car. I wish I'd been able to start with a 1LE but....oh well. I still have a great car.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by NoynuR

mustang= plastic :P

Have you actually looked at the Camaro interior. It has more plastic than a recycling facility. :P

[NoynuR]

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

Have you actually looked at the Camaro interior. It has more plastic than a recycling facility. :P

Not really.. the 2010 ss i owned compared to the 2012 gt i drove was worlds apart. Ford is just not up to par on the interior of their cars or suspension.