Those running stock fuel pumps... - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

11syn3rgy · 09-12-2013, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badbubba

Confused, if afr is 11.5 throughout the run, how can that be lean? I understand if the fuel pressure drops, the injector duty cycle would need to increase. Why wasn't this seen when you 1st had the car tuned? Or did you load a canned tune or have a different shop tune it? Surging at only light throttle sounds like something else since, I would think, the stock fuel pump should be able to keep up under light load. So, not sure if the surging would be due to fuel pressure. Quite possible surging is a tune problem and that the fuel pressure was observed to be dropping as well. 133kpa should be at idle on sct livelink2, multiply by 3 and then convert to psi. 400kpa=58psi. So 70kpa, 210kpa=30psi.

I suppose if the duty cycle of the injector is maxed out, the fuel system would be dangerously lean? Again, far from an expert here guys. I just wanted to alert some of you of the potential issues with the stock pump. My advice would be to connect with Jannetty about your specific situation if you think you "might" be running lean? The "surging" really had nothing to do with running lean as I have plenty of fuel pressure under 4K rpm, it was the initial reason that I sent Ted my data logs, which turned out to be a good thing I did!

pdiddy · 09-12-2013, 11:39 AM

I am not an expert either I am not sure that lean is the correct word but what I think OP is getting at is that his AF reading although was good and "safe" his fuel pump was maxed out so much that he was losing fuel pressure and his injector duty had to increase a lot to keep up and causing a potential unsafe situation thus causing him to go with the ZL1 set up. Me also being fairly nube to this and learning think there is more than just AF to consider when building/tuning a car and wanting to be safe presssure is just another one of these items that you should consider. Please if this is incorrect correct me I take no offence to learning and being corrected.

11syn3rgy · 09-12-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Criag B

How much HP can the ZL1 pump handle?

Ted told me that the ZL1 pump should be able to safely handle around 650 rwhp when I asked him the other day.

11syn3rgy · 09-12-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badbubba

Confused, if afr is 11.5 throughout the run, how can that be lean? I understand if the fuel pressure drops, the injector duty cycle would need to increase. Why wasn't this seen when you 1st had the car tuned? Or did you load a canned tune or have a different shop tune it? Surging at only light throttle sounds like something else since, I would think, the stock fuel pump should be able to keep up under light load. So, not sure if the surging would be due to fuel pressure. Quite possible surging is a tune problem and that the fuel pressure was observed to be dropping as well. 133kpa should be at idle on sct livelink2, multiply by 3 and then convert to psi. 400kpa=58psi. So 70kpa, 210kpa=30psi.

Not exactly sure where you are getting this kpa to psi conversion from? I have attached the conversion chart the I received from Ted. 400 kpa equals 43.4 psi according to this chart.

pdiddy · 09-12-2013, 02:01 PM

I am also a little confused on how the conversion works as the normal conversion for kpa to psi is different from above. It is what Badbubba posted if you just do math but maybe there other others factors when you deal with car fuel pressure, not sure how the above chart reads.

TinyToasta · 09-12-2013, 02:17 PM

The Chart seems to show the conversion from kpa (eg map) to psi incorporating the usual barometric pressure of open air (100kpa or 15psi or 1 bar)

Geez, I feel like a nerd now

11syn3rgy · 09-12-2013, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyToasta

The Chart seems to show the conversion from kpa (eg map) to psi incorporating the usual barometric pressure of open air (100kpa or 15psi or 1 bar)

Geez, I feel like a nerd now

What he said!!! All is I know is the chart came from Jannetty, and I know better than to question the master. HA!

Badbubba · 09-14-2013, 06:28 PM

So the chart is subtracting 1bar, 14.5 psi. Thus stating that the 58 psi is absolute pressure and not gauge pressure. I disagree that this chart is for our application. If a mechanical fuel pressure gauge is attached to the fuel rail, it displays around 60 psi iirc. I bench tested and set my fuel pressure safety switch for 45psi gauge pressure. If the chart is correct, I would never be able to activate my N2O. Or am I missing something? The chart doesn't represent your 6.5psi boost "pushing back" on the injector fuel pressure either. Just trying to understand.

Rhino79 · 09-14-2013, 07:09 PM

That chart is for boost reference.
Fuel pressure is different. You don't deduct 14.5 psi or 1 bar or 100 kpa from what you see.
In fuel pressure what you see is what you have. 3 bar is 43.5 psi. 4 bar is 58 psi.

Badbubba · 09-15-2013, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino79

That chart is for boost reference.
Fuel pressure is different. You don't deduct 14.5 psi or 1 bar or 100 kpa from what you see.
In fuel pressure what you see is what you have. 3 bar is 43.5 psi. 4 bar is 58 psi.

Yep.

NicKey · 09-15-2013, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron_Robinson1

I have been over 600 rwhp for 7,000 hard miles without any issues this summer, and I don't use a ADM controller with my ZL1 pump. Car runs great.

A properly programmed ZL1 fuel pump controller / ADM is necessary to get the maximum efficiency from a ZL1 pump installed in a non ZL1 Camaro.

BooSSted · 09-16-2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickeyChicago

A properly programmed ZL1 fuel pump controller / ADM is necessary to get the maximum efficiency from a ZL1 pump installed in a non ZL1 Camaro.

11syn3rgy · 09-16-2013, 08:24 PM

This is what Jannetty said as well.

09-12-2013, 11:39 AM	#16
pdiddy Drives: 2011 2SS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 997	I am not an expert either I am not sure that lean is the correct word but what I think OP is getting at is that his AF reading although was good and "safe" his fuel pump was maxed out so much that he was losing fuel pressure and his injector duty had to increase a lot to keep up and causing a potential unsafe situation thus causing him to go with the ZL1 set up. Me also being fairly nube to this and learning think there is more than just AF to consider when building/tuning a car and wanting to be safe presssure is just another one of these items that you should consider. Please if this is incorrect correct me I take no offence to learning and being corrected. __________________ 2011 2SS,fti th400, ECS 1500, Flex Fuel, Boost built 376, squash fuel system

09-12-2013, 02:01 PM	#19
pdiddy Drives: 2011 2SS Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Kansas City Posts: 997	I am also a little confused on how the conversion works as the normal conversion for kpa to psi is different from above. It is what Badbubba posted if you just do math but maybe there other others factors when you deal with car fuel pressure, not sure how the above chart reads. __________________ 2011 2SS,fti th400, ECS 1500, Flex Fuel, Boost built 376, squash fuel system

09-12-2013, 02:17 PM	#20
TinyToasta Drives: way too fast.... Join Date: May 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 297 View My Garage	The Chart seems to show the conversion from kpa (eg map) to psi incorporating the usual barometric pressure of open air (100kpa or 15psi or 1 bar) Geez, I feel like a nerd now __________________ custom build forged LSA, 379ci, TVS2300@15psi, 696rwhp/688ft-lbs, built by DH Individual, Customkingz, tuned by Jannetty Racing JRE rough idle cam, JRE ported lower intake manifold, OD cog drive, 6% OD crank pulley, ported ls3 heads, NW102mm TB, 1/2'' RDS spacer, IW 8-rib drive Pfadt Cradle Bushings, Arms & Rods, Pedders Supercar w/FE4 conversion, ZL1 sways, HE Twin Carbon Street Slayer, ZL1 Rear End (3.73) CTS-V Brake upgrade, Street: 22'' Vossen CV1, Strip: 18'' Forgestar F14 on MT Street Radials

09-14-2013, 06:28 PM	#22
Badbubba GrINned & JUICEd Drives: 15STI, 10Expy, 10 2SS/RS M6, 47KB1 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,247	So the chart is subtracting 1bar, 14.5 psi. Thus stating that the 58 psi is absolute pressure and not gauge pressure. I disagree that this chart is for our application. If a mechanical fuel pressure gauge is attached to the fuel rail, it displays around 60 psi iirc. I bench tested and set my fuel pressure safety switch for 45psi gauge pressure. If the chart is correct, I would never be able to activate my N2O. Or am I missing something? The chart doesn't represent your 6.5psi boost "pushing back" on the injector fuel pressure either. Just trying to understand. __________________ GPI SS3 Cam & stuff,N.O. Plate(dedicated fuel tank,progressive,fuel hose upgrade,remote opener,heater,console switches),LNC2000,CTAP,ARH 1 7/8" LTs/gutted cats/X pipe/mufflers,Jet Hot coated LTs,GPI HPT Tune,CAI, Scoop,Rx Catch Can,Gates heater hose relocation, Remote clutch & auto brake res,Metco loop,Momentum Tunnel Brace,TSW Nurb 18",555 & 05,Pfadt trailing arms & toe rods,Autometer WB,Fesler Pillar Pod,LED strips (int),Lloyds floor & trunk mats,LED DRL/front turn & license plate,DRL harness,VLEDs tail lights,Plasticoat Bowties. Ord: Oct 5, 2009 Rec: Nov 19, 2009 13.17@112.6 stock

09-14-2013, 07:09 PM	#23
Rhino79 Drives: 2010 Camaro SS L99/Auto Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Cabot, AR Posts: 2,827 View My Garage	That chart is for boost reference. Fuel pressure is different. You don't deduct 14.5 psi or 1 bar or 100 kpa from what you see. In fuel pressure what you see is what you have. 3 bar is 43.5 psi. 4 bar is 58 psi.

09-16-2013, 08:24 PM	#27
11syn3rgy JT Synergy RS/2SS Drives: 2011 Camaro RS/2SS (L99) Synergy Join Date: May 2013 Location: Hager City, WI Posts: 697	This is what Jannetty said as well.