Vortech V3 upgrades vs TT setup - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

WheelmanSS · 07-25-2017, 08:38 AM

Hey yo,

So, I recently got my ass handed to me in a couple of races which I was feeling confident in. Coupled with that, the car just feels sluggish. Especially in this often humid Chicago weather.

I thought the Vortech V3 SI setup would have satisfied me for the long run, but I am realizing that the limitations are becoming more significant.

The car made 573 RWHP with the Vortech V3 system and the exhaust setup I have now (Kooks). The dyno tune turned out great, however I am pretty much at the limits of the stock fuel system + the injectors from the Vortech kit.

I am looking for more power, but I am not sure at the best means to get it.

- Upgrade the V3 setup: I am making about 6 PSI of boost right now. If I dropped to the 3.33 pulley, upgraded the filter, added the race bypass, etc., how much power would I look to gain? What anticipated boost would this make? Does anyone have comparable dyno runs of the stock V3 pulley and the 3.33 that most people go with? What kind of fuel system would be recommended?

- Switch to a TT: This is the pricier option, but best for long term capabilities. I have been reading a lot about the AGP and Hellion kits. I'm leaning more towards AGP for ease of installation, efficient design, and less heat under the hood. With a proper fuel system, how much boost/HP can I target and stay safe on a stock long block? I would prefer to stick with 93 pump but have options for 100 as well.

I know everyone has their personal preferences and biases. Appreciate the feedback applicable to my setup.

CGbambam · 07-25-2017, 09:01 AM

Don't have a Vortech but i've had a procharge in the past. why do you switch to e85 and pulley down till you get a good 15/16 psi. If e85 isn't available you could always do water meth as well. You are barely turning that blower at 6 psi

jeff657756 · 07-25-2017, 09:30 AM

Cant comment on vortech kit, but with AGP its really how comfortable you are with turning it up. Assuming you have a capable fuel system I wouldnt turn it up past 650 on 93 octane. With meth and/or E85 you have more room to go higher. I and many others have made pretty decent power on their base kit.
Will probably be a tough decision since you probably have a lot invested in the vortech kit. If I were you, I would get a good fuel system/injectors that can support high HP on e85 and pulley down. If that doesnt do it for you, sell the vortech kit and do AGP. You will have to upgrade the fuel system with either one you pick.

mrimpala02 · 07-25-2017, 09:49 AM

I agree with CGbambam. Most cost effective route is to pulley down to make more boost! I used to have the ECS kit and I know the pulley was 3.33 which produced 15-16 psi with 1500 Paxton head-unit. I would assume if your lower pulley is the same size as the ECS kit you would be close. If I'm not mistaken though I think the V3 Vortech head-unit is a tad smaller than the Paxton head-unit.

But you definitely need to look at upgrading your fuel system. Either way the stock fuel pump is gonna run out of room the more power you make. Since it seems you have the mod bug I would go big on the fuel pumps. If you rwhp goal is under ~1000 rwhp the AGP twin fuel pump setup is an attractive option. If you think you will ever run e85 opt for pumps large enough for e85 use(think long term goals/needs). Then also upgrade your injectors. Again if you decide to go e85 you will need bigger injectors. Size depends on your HP goals. The new 1050X ID will probably cover most builds and have an option for a reasonable power e85 setup.

I tell everyone I meet to not skimp on fuel as it is one of the most important parts of a FI build. When I built my setup the ADM twin pump system was "doing it big" for me, but I ended up being wrong. I will soon end up dropping my tank again for an AGP triple e85 setup. Don't do the same labor over and over again like me!!

And if that doesn't tickle your fancy you still can switch over to a TT setup, but foundation for big power will already be laid down.

As far as how much power can the stock block take; that all depends on your fuel system and tune. Right now I'm running stock bottom end on 93 + 100% meth tuned by Pat G. I run my car typically on 10-12 psi boost in hot summer summer time and make about 780 rwhp /685 rwtq. When the cooler weather comes I may run boost a tad bit higher while in Mexico @ 16.5 psi and make 815 rwhp / 711 rwtq (mustang dyno).

I think ~800 rwhp is about the limit for LS3 bottom end as long as I'm not beating on it everyday. Some people are even running pretty hard at the ~800 rwhp mark at the track with no issues, look at dreksnot as an example. It's all in maintenance, fuel and tune. A bit of luck also helps. LOL! But with anything in Motorsport their will always be a certain element of risk.

Good Luck.

mrimpala02 · 07-25-2017, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff657756

Cant comment on vortech kit, but with AGP its really how comfortable you are with turning it up. Assuming you have a capable fuel system I wouldnt turn it up past 650 on 93 octane. With meth and/or E85 you have more room to go higher. I and many others have made pretty decent power on their base kit.
Will probably be a tough decision since you probably have a lot invested in the vortech kit. If I were you, I would get a good fuel system/injectors that can support high HP on e85 and pulley down. If that doesnt do it for you, sell the vortech kit and do AGP. You will have to upgrade the fuel system with either one you pick.

Ha ha! What Jeff said.

Sorry I got long winded.

AGP Turbo · 07-25-2017, 11:19 AM

As you've seen the HP numbers that you use to think were enough, are really not very fast. Since you have a manual car, if you were to switch over to our TT system I can tell you that it's pretty easy to get you up to about 800/800 wheel on race gas with your stock engine. All the powerful 600hp- 900+hp cars around are within a fraction of a second of eachother under 60mph. The game is all about how fast your car is over 60mph. You need these big power numbers to make your car get from 60 to 120+ quick. And you can use every bit of 800whp over 60mph, so why not have it. I'd recommend you set your sights higher and overcome the fact that you have a heavy car.

WheelmanSS · 07-25-2017, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrimpala02

Ha ha! What Jeff said.

Sorry I got long winded.

Not long winded at all! Thanks for the detailed response.

I am very much in line with your thinking. I don't want to do a modification, and then down the road and do the same thing again. I'm already in that boat if I do pull the Vortech system to go TT.

Is there any where to go to read the big differences of E85 vs 93? I want to understand the capabilities of each vs boost.

Thanks for feedback on that topic as well.

JANNETTYRACING · 07-25-2017, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelmanSS

Hey yo,

So, I recently got my ass handed to me in a couple of races which I was feeling confident in. Coupled with that, the car just feels sluggish. Especially in this often humid Chicago weather.

I thought the Vortech V3 SI setup would have satisfied me for the long run, but I am realizing that the limitations are becoming more significant.

The car made 573 RWHP with the Vortech V3 system and the exhaust setup I have now (Kooks). The dyno tune turned out great, however I am pretty much at the limits of the stock fuel system + the injectors from the Vortech kit.

I am looking for more power, but I am not sure at the best means to get it.

- Upgrade the V3 setup: I am making about 6 PSI of boost right now. If I dropped to the 3.33 pulley, upgraded the filter, added the race bypass, etc., how much power would I look to gain? What anticipated boost would this make? Does anyone have comparable dyno runs of the stock V3 pulley and the 3.33 that most people go with? What kind of fuel system would be recommended?

- Switch to a TT: This is the pricier option, but best for long term capabilities. I have been reading a lot about the AGP and Hellion kits. I'm leaning more towards AGP for ease of installation, efficient design, and less heat under the hood. With a proper fuel system, how much boost/HP can I target and stay safe on a stock long block? I would prefer to stick with 93 pump but have options for 100 as well.

I know everyone has their personal preferences and biases. Appreciate the feedback applicable to my setup.

The fuel system is the foundation on which we build.

You have only scratched the surface of what your supercharger can do and there is a lot of room to grow it.

That blower will support 800 RWHP or all your stock long block can handle.

I have upgrade packages to take it to the next level.

If you have E-85 available we can really turn it up.

Feel free to give me a call.

Ted.

mrimpala02 · 07-25-2017, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WheelmanSS

Not long winded at all! Thanks for the detailed response.

I am very much in line with your thinking. I don't want to do a modification, and then down the road and do the same thing again. I'm already in that boat if I do pull the Vortech system to go TT.

Is there any where to go to read the big differences of E85 vs 93? I want to understand the capabilities of each vs boost.

Thanks for feedback on that topic as well.

No problem. The engineer in me won't let me leave out details.

Here is a thread that is going in the NA section with a quick and dirty explanation by Dave Steck of DSX tuning(post #10). http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502363

ADM had a great comparison post on a ZL1, but all the pics seem to be gone now thanks to photobucket! http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394980

Like Ted said though you have a lot left in that supercharger. Just need the fuel to go with it. A cam is not required, but does sound good too!

Supercharger Setup
https://youtu.be/_4BloYzoerQ

Turbo Setup:
https://www.facebook.com/Racingfx/vi...2254384265917/

Moreair1 · 07-25-2017, 05:45 PM

E85 I believe is around 105 octane, but also requires 30 percent more volume, I just added a dsx flex fuel sensor and adjusted my flex fuel tables, it's amazing how much of a difference I can feel running on e85.

redirish · 07-25-2017, 07:51 PM

I have a vortech v3 and I got a kit from Ted at Jannetty. It came with the 3.33 pulley a ZL1 fuel pump new spark plugs and new air filter. I'm at 610 rwhp now at 10psi If you want a lot more power you could also change the v3 for the vortech ysi depends on how much power you are looking for and how much money you have to spend

Moreair1 · 07-25-2017, 08:33 PM

Is there any where to go to read the big differences of E85 vs 93? I want to understand the capabilities of each vs boost.

Thanks for feedback on that topic as well.[/QUOTE]

E85 vs 100 octane

http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/4-en...s/37343?page=1

JANNETTYRACING · 07-26-2017, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moreair1

Is there any where to go to read the big differences of E85 vs 93? I want to understand the capabilities of each vs boost.

Thanks for feedback on that topic as well.

Each engine combination will respond differently.

More basic builds may make 30 RWHP more where serious build can make up to 100 RWHP more than on normal 93 octane.

So the bigger your build the larger the benefit.

Ted.

Slickcas · 07-31-2017, 07:22 PM

I am running ID850 injections, ZL1 fule pump with a MSD voltage booster set to a max of 15Volts.
Swap out your lower pulley from the stock 7" to the 7.8". Change the upper to a 3.47 or 3.33". This will put you at the top end of the safe blower inpaller speed.
With a mild cam I put down 704 RWHP with the 7.8 & 3.47 combo using pump 93.
Car can trap 130 mph in the 1/4

You will NOT get no 15 psi out of the V3 on our big 6.2. But it will make your car way faster. Also keeping the nice drive ability.
At the air strip not to many "street" cars can hang with her. Hellcats included.

07-25-2017, 09:30 AM	#3
jeff657756 Drives: 2014 SS 1LE Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: United States Posts: 660	Cant comment on vortech kit, but with AGP its really how comfortable you are with turning it up. Assuming you have a capable fuel system I wouldnt turn it up past 650 on 93 octane. With meth and/or E85 you have more room to go higher. I and many others have made pretty decent power on their base kit. Will probably be a tough decision since you probably have a lot invested in the vortech kit. If I were you, I would get a good fuel system/injectors that can support high HP on e85 and pulley down. If that doesnt do it for you, sell the vortech kit and do AGP. You will have to upgrade the fuel system with either one you pick. __________________ https://instagram.com/jp_1le/

07-25-2017, 09:49 AM	#4
mrimpala02 Drives: Black 2SS RS w/White Stripes Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Katy, TX Posts: 775	I agree with CGbambam. Most cost effective route is to pulley down to make more boost! I used to have the ECS kit and I know the pulley was 3.33 which produced 15-16 psi with 1500 Paxton head-unit. I would assume if your lower pulley is the same size as the ECS kit you would be close. If I'm not mistaken though I think the V3 Vortech head-unit is a tad smaller than the Paxton head-unit. But you definitely need to look at upgrading your fuel system. Either way the stock fuel pump is gonna run out of room the more power you make. Since it seems you have the mod bug I would go big on the fuel pumps. If you rwhp goal is under ~1000 rwhp the AGP twin fuel pump setup is an attractive option. If you think you will ever run e85 opt for pumps large enough for e85 use(think long term goals/needs). Then also upgrade your injectors. Again if you decide to go e85 you will need bigger injectors. Size depends on your HP goals. The new 1050X ID will probably cover most builds and have an option for a reasonable power e85 setup. I tell everyone I meet to not skimp on fuel as it is one of the most important parts of a FI build. When I built my setup the ADM twin pump system was "doing it big" for me, but I ended up being wrong. I will soon end up dropping my tank again for an AGP triple e85 setup. Don't do the same labor over and over again like me!! And if that doesn't tickle your fancy you still can switch over to a TT setup, but foundation for big power will already be laid down. As far as how much power can the stock block take; that all depends on your fuel system and tune. Right now I'm running stock bottom end on 93 + 100% meth tuned by Pat G. I run my car typically on 10-12 psi boost in hot summer summer time and make about 780 rwhp /685 rwtq. When the cooler weather comes I may run boost a tad bit higher while in Mexico @ 16.5 psi and make 815 rwhp / 711 rwtq (mustang dyno). I think ~800 rwhp is about the limit for LS3 bottom end as long as I'm not beating on it everyday. Some people are even running pretty hard at the ~800 rwhp mark at the track with no issues, look at dreksnot as an example. It's all in maintenance, fuel and tune. A bit of luck also helps. LOL! But with anything in Motorsport their will always be a certain element of risk. Good Luck. __________________ 2010 2SS/RS "ChriSStine": Pat G Custom Turbo CamMotion Camshaft \| AGP TT BB Garrett 62/65's \| AGP/Fore Triple Pumps \| ID1700X Injectors \| Alky Control Twin Nozzle Meth \| Custom 3" Exhaust \| 3.27 gear set w/ Tru Trac \| McLeod Twin RXT \| Barton Short Throw Shifter \| 6th Gen ZL1 Wheels \| BMR 1.4" drop springs \| Pfadt rear trailing arms & tie rods \| Installed by Me & Tuned by Pat G

07-25-2017, 08:33 PM	#12
Moreair1 Drives: 2011 ss convertible Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,329 View My Garage	Is there any where to go to read the big differences of E85 vs 93? I want to understand the capabilities of each vs boost. Thanks for feedback on that topic as well.[/QUOTE] E85 vs 100 octane http://www.ctsvowners.com/forum/4-en...s/37343?page=1 __________________ Cai intake and a few other mods😎

07-25-2017, 08:38 AM	#1
WheelmanSS Logic is dead Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,804	Vortech V3 upgrades vs TT setup Hey yo, So, I recently got my ass handed to me in a couple of races which I was feeling confident in. Coupled with that, the car just feels sluggish. Especially in this often humid Chicago weather. I thought the Vortech V3 SI setup would have satisfied me for the long run, but I am realizing that the limitations are becoming more significant. The car made 573 RWHP with the Vortech V3 system and the exhaust setup I have now (Kooks). The dyno tune turned out great, however I am pretty much at the limits of the stock fuel system + the injectors from the Vortech kit. I am looking for more power, but I am not sure at the best means to get it. - Upgrade the V3 setup: I am making about 6 PSI of boost right now. If I dropped to the 3.33 pulley, upgraded the filter, added the race bypass, etc., how much power would I look to gain? What anticipated boost would this make? Does anyone have comparable dyno runs of the stock V3 pulley and the 3.33 that most people go with? What kind of fuel system would be recommended? - Switch to a TT: This is the pricier option, but best for long term capabilities. I have been reading a lot about the AGP and Hellion kits. I'm leaning more towards AGP for ease of installation, efficient design, and less heat under the hood. With a proper fuel system, how much boost/HP can I target and stay safe on a stock long block? I would prefer to stick with 93 pump but have options for 100 as well. I know everyone has their personal preferences and biases. Appreciate the feedback applicable to my setup. __________________ 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS (LS3) 573 RWHP 498 RWTQ - Vortech V3 Supercharger - Kooks Stepped Headers, Magnaflow 16580 - Suspension by Pfadt, Hotchkis. 2007 Trailblazer SS- Sold 2001 Trans Am WS6 431 RWHP 408 RWTQ - Sold 1994 Camaro Z28 - Sold

07-25-2017, 09:01 AM	#2
CGbambam Drives: 2011 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Houston Posts: 410	Don't have a Vortech but i've had a procharge in the past. why do you switch to e85 and pulley down till you get a good 15/16 psi. If e85 isn't available you could always do water meth as well. You are barely turning that blower at 6 psi

07-25-2017, 11:19 AM	#6
AGP Turbo Drives: All things Turbocharged Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: AZ Posts: 1,199	As you've seen the HP numbers that you use to think were enough, are really not very fast. Since you have a manual car, if you were to switch over to our TT system I can tell you that it's pretty easy to get you up to about 800/800 wheel on race gas with your stock engine. All the powerful 600hp- 900+hp cars around are within a fraction of a second of eachother under 60mph. The game is all about how fast your car is over 60mph. You need these big power numbers to make your car get from 60 to 120+ quick. And you can use every bit of 800whp over 60mph, so why not have it. I'd recommend you set your sights higher and overcome the fact that you have a heavy car.

07-25-2017, 05:45 PM	#10
Moreair1 Drives: 2011 ss convertible Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,329 View My Garage	E85 I believe is around 105 octane, but also requires 30 percent more volume, I just added a dsx flex fuel sensor and adjusted my flex fuel tables, it's amazing how much of a difference I can feel running on e85. __________________ Cai intake and a few other mods😎

07-25-2017, 07:51 PM	#11
redirish Drives: 10' IOM 2SS/RS/M6 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,354 View My Garage	I have a vortech v3 and I got a kit from Ted at Jannetty. It came with the 3.33 pulley a ZL1 fuel pump new spark plugs and new air filter. I'm at 610 rwhp now at 10psi If you want a lot more power you could also change the v3 for the vortech ysi depends on how much power you are looking for and how much money you have to spend

07-31-2017, 07:22 PM	#14
Slickcas Drives: 12' 2SS/RS LS3 IBM Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Odin. ILL Posts: 487 View My Garage	I am running ID850 injections, ZL1 fule pump with a MSD voltage booster set to a max of 15Volts. Swap out your lower pulley from the stock 7" to the 7.8". Change the upper to a 3.47 or 3.33". This will put you at the top end of the safe blower inpaller speed. With a mild cam I put down 704 RWHP with the 7.8 & 3.47 combo using pump 93. Car can trap 130 mph in the 1/4 You will NOT get no 15 psi out of the V3 on our big 6.2. But it will make your car way faster. Also keeping the nice drive ability. At the air strip not to many "street" cars can hang with her. Hellcats included.