[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Again, I think you're expecting too much out of a mustang.
Like I said, brick in the wind, heavy and seats 4.
And yes, the corvette is the better performance bargain, you'd have to be blind not to acknowledge that but the people buying these cars obviously are able to drop some serious money on them without too much thought or excel spread sheets on price per horsepower etc...



I'd love to see the ZLE vs GT500 too and that should be the next magazine race for sure because they are direct competitors.

On performance "VALUE" the GT500 is a heavy car that run's 10's with a user that doesn't have to know how to drive and a hand built engine AND it can actually handle very well. And (in my eyes) looks very killer. So it does have performance value, but not a SUPER AWESOME performance value for the cost. The base model is more of a value for what most people are going to do with the car.

Again lots of people in this price range aren't crying about 20k here and 10k there though so it's a bit of a different vibe when you are able to plop down that kind of cash.

You missed the point again. I am not expecting much from the GT500. I asking how it would fare if it had to battle up like the Corvette always does. How would the GT500 fare against a true supercar that costs $30K more than it and has more HP?

No matter how high you option the Z51, it is a $65K. Option it to $95K and it is a $65K car with $30K worth of aesthetic and non-performance related addons. However it got optioned up by over $20K more than what it would be bare. It then got put up against a car that originally costs $10K more and $30K more...both with 260 more HP. Even after being optioned up to high $80K the GT500 was STILL more expensive than the Z51 by almost $10K.

So let's take a $94K GT500, throw $20K worth of addons to it to bring it up to $114K. Then put it up against a car that costs $120K which would be the ZR1. How would it do against a ZR1? Or take a $74K Base GT500 and option it up by $20K to $94K. Then put it up against the Z06 or GTR and see how it does.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I can spin it like this had the Mustang gotten this unusual advantage as stated by MT this forum would be loosing its mind. Funny thing even with this advantage it still lost in the category it was designed to excel in to a 4 seat 4100 lb Mustang.

I was with you until the part in bold. Anyone who follows Corvettes or who likes track driving knows that the Stingray is not designed to excel on track. It’s designed to excel on the street and be competent on the track. 2.8s 0 - 60 and 11.1 1/4 mile pretty much say mission accomplished. Track beasts come next.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I can spin it like this had the Mustang gotten this unusual advantage as stated by MT this forum would be loosing its mind. Funny thing even with this advantage it still lost in the category it was designed to excel in to a 4 seat 4100 lb Mustang. Add in the disappointment with Ring times and the C8s shine is quickly fading.

Yea it is quickly fading...since they're all sold out and you probably won't find an allocation at this point.

[Scottyz]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I was with you until the part in bold. Anyone who follows Corvettes or who likes track driving knows that the Stingray is not designed to excel on track. It’s designed to excel on the street and be competent on the track. 2.8s 0 - 60 and 11.1 1/4 mile pretty much say mission accomplished. Track beasts come next.

Only the beginning.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I can spin it like this had the Mustang gotten this unusual advantage as stated by MT this forum would be loosing its mind. Funny thing even with this advantage it still lost in the category it was designed to excel in to a 4 seat 4100 lb Mustang. Add in the disappointment with Ring times and the C8s shine is quickly fading.

8 times as many C8 sold compared to the gt500, and as you say many will be optioned out in mid $70’s with 2lt package. Really fading out.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea it is quickly fading...since they're all sold out and you probably won't find an allocation at this point.

Hah. Spanked!

I would imagine some 'stangers have brain cells...I just don't see it here. The moron in Vegas was looking on the window sticker for the hp. Then he acted like he didn't know what he paid for it...went from $100k to $82k as noted on the sticker. Forget about tax and adm.

It's all smoke and mirrors for these guys. If it's a great strip car, and mediocre at the track, whether at $80k or $100k...just be forthright about it.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

The only reason I can figure that the alignment is such a big deal to the Mustang guys is that only the handling pack 350/500 and R's have adjustment from the factory via camber plates. Any other Mustang you either have to slot the struts, install camber bolts or plates. So they act like it's some big bad voodoo magic that's incomprehensible to the common car guy. GM was nice enough to give us a good range of adjustment from the factory.

I'd argue that running a mild track alignment on the street (-2.5* camber or around there and 0 toe) is much less detrimental to tire life than running a street alignment on the track. These are heavy cars and you can blow the outer shoulder off a tire pretty quick with too little negative camber, unless your 'track day' consists of 1 or 2 parade laps. And if you're running more than -3* camber and messing around with toe to get the car to turn in how you like, there's a pretty good chance you trailered it to the track.

Oh, and the roll cage actually hurt the GT500 times because it added weight.

Agreed.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I can spin it like this had the Mustang gotten this unusual advantage as stated by MT this forum would be loosing its mind. Funny thing even with this advantage it still lost in the category it was designed to excel in to a 4 seat 4100 lb Mustang. Add in the disappointment with Ring times and the C8s shine is quickly fading.

So is the shine fading off of the GT500 since it lost to the C8 at what it is supposed to be best at?

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I was with you until the part in bold. Anyone who follows Corvettes or who likes track driving knows that the Stingray is not designed to excel on track. It’s designed to excel on the street and be competent on the track. 2.8s 0 - 60 and 11.1 1/4 mile pretty much say mission accomplished. Track beasts come next.

^This as well.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

The only reason I can figure that the alignment is such a big deal to the Mustang guys is that only the handling pack 350/500 and R's have adjustment from the factory via camber plates. Any other Mustang you either have to slot the struts, install camber bolts or plates. So they act like it's some big bad voodoo magic that's incomprehensible to the common car guy. GM was nice enough to give us a good range of adjustment from the factory.

I'd argue that running a mild track alignment on the street (-2.5* camber or around there and 0 toe) is much less detrimental to tire life than running a street alignment on the track. These are heavy cars and you can blow the outer shoulder off a tire pretty quick with too little negative camber, unless your 'track day' consists of 1 or 2 parade laps. And if you're running more than -3* camber and messing around with toe to get the car to turn in how you like, there's a pretty good chance you trailered it to the track.

Oh, and the roll cage actually hurt the GT500 times because it added weight.

It looks like there is no back seats in either, so I’m sure the seat delete made up the weight difference. And there’s no way the roll cage didn’t add rigidity to the car.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by minn19

So is the shine fading off of the GT500 since it lost to the C8 at what it is supposed to be best at?.

I said this a while ago, I can't find any 'shine' for the GT500 locally, even among my friends with GT350's. They are just not interested or impressed.

A lot of people in the real world, like in here, are tired of the same tired ass formula of throwing a bunch of HP at an overweight car that costs over $70K. For that sort of money, people expect weight reduction, innovation, interior quality, and the GT500 has none of that(a DCT, whooptie doo).

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I said this a while ago, I can't find any 'shine' for the GT500 locally, even among my friends with GT350's. They are just not interested or impressed.

A lot of people in the real world, like in here, are tired of the same tired ass formula of throwing a bunch of HP at an overweight car that costs over $70K. For that sort of money, people expect weight reduction, innovation, interior quality, and the GT500 has none of that(a DCT, whooptie doo).

I feel similar as well for the most part. That is what the Ford guys completely miss. The C8 will have a huge upside on this new platform to develop into. The GT500 is approaching certain F-150 weights so I'm not sure what is next for that one. 4500 hundred pounds and 950HP?

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by minn19

I feel similar as well for the most part. That is what the Ford guys completely miss. The C8 will have a huge upside on this new platform to develop into. The GT500 is approaching certain F-150 weights so I'm not sure what is next for that one. 4500 hundred pounds and 950HP?

Yeah, I mean to each their own I guess. When I look around and see what Chevy is offering with the world class alpha, the 6th Gen lost weight compared to the 5th Gen, then there is the mid-engine Vette for less than $70K with a base model pulling sub 3 second 0-60 and consistent 11.1 1/4 mile times.

Then you look at Ford, the 6th Gen gained weight(WTF?!?!), the chassis is just an updated 5th Gen. Their crown jewel GT500 weighs almost 4300 pounds and STARTS at $74K, and these guys are ecstatic?!?!

I just don't get it. I honestly don't see the appeal at this price range.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I was with you until the part in bold. Anyone who follows Corvettes or who likes track driving knows that the Stingray is not designed to excel on track. It’s designed to excel on the street and be competent on the track. 2.8s 0 - 60 and 11.1 1/4 mile pretty much say mission accomplished. Track beasts come next.

Maybe I am in the minority here but looking back I dont think so, but I assumed the mid engine C8 Z51 package would have been faster than both 500 Base and ZL1 A10 on the track, but I guess I was wrong, it's going to take a higher end model.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I can spin it like this had the Mustang gotten this unusual advantage as stated by MT this forum would be loosing its mind. Funny thing even with this advantage it still lost in the category it was designed to excel in to a 4 seat 4100 lb Mustang. Add in the disappointment with Ring times and the C8s shine is quickly fading.

Funny. They chose the Full VIR with a 4000' back straight, and a 3000' front straight as the venue. How unusual. Advantage GT500 (+265 HP).

How do you think a ZL1 vs GT350R match would go on that track?