Z28 and the 5th Gen Refresh.

[thePill]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

I would like to see the rear seats easily removable for the standard Z28, so you can carry people but also remove them for a day at the track.

That is how the Laguna Seca is I believe... The Laguna Seca is sold with the back seat and Ford ships the X brace and the front splitter to the dealer for you to pick up after purchase.

[INTIMIDAT3R]

Originally Posted by thePill

You see, the Mustang and Camaro are practically related...

Yeah, I can see that too.

They look like a Dodge Charger was putting it to a Ford Mustang and our Camaro's are the results of that unholy union...

BUT I like it!!!

[anthonyj9h]

pill i like you, you think outside of the box and it seems that me and you think like. lol prob is my typing looks like my brain all jumbled from one thought to another and off on another and another lol anyway, 3300 would be perfect maybe lower for performance, fuel, and emissions that the new CAFE regulations are going to impliment. honestly i dont see engines really improving to much, (my idea) get the part that spins the wheels to amplfy the power output of the engine.....are you listening gm...less fuel to power the engine to max load and all the added stress should be on the "transmission" im still working the details and yes this would change how the car industry

[DEANGE2001]

Originally Posted by thePill

The picture below looks like a more race oriented ZL1, although the bumper cover itself is far to slender, the design is pretty cool. Put the Jay Leno hood on this Camaro and it would have my vote.



I can see a 2013 Z28 here but I'm having trouble getting away from the current design...


Here are some interesting lower fascia work. I love the first picture below, it is simple and very functional. It is similar to the 2012 Boss 302's lower valance that shovels cool air into the radiator and has the capability to mount a brake duct kit on each side. The second pic is really just a one piece splitter but the raised fascia section around the fog light is unique. The third pic is an advanced bumper cover and front fascia with primary brake duct ports in the fascia and secondary duct ports in the lower valance. The whole design is more rounded and really creates a more sleek look to the 5th Gen. The splitter is a two piece design and is part of the fascia and is not just a bolt on. This is a very modern look and while it may look a little busy, I would like to graph the GT.R's headlight covers onto this rendition and see what we get. Also, you see the hips on the third pic look more like a fin and express much sharper lines in the rear (Corvette style). Someone mentioned earlier that GM needs to do rework the body panels to make the Camaro appear to be smaller than it actually is. This would mean tucking in some of HUGE rear end and front fascia. I was in one of these Camaro's yesterday (for research) and upon approaching the vehicle, it always astonishes me how physically big this car is. It makes my Mustang look tiny...

\



The last pic is pretty sweet, it is like a cross between a camaro and vette...pretty dope.

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by thePill

My revised 2013 Camaro Z28 Ad, you will notice the Limited Edition Camaro Z28 GS.R's (Like the Boss 302 Laguna Seca). However, the first 99 Camaro Z28 GS.R's will receive the Z28 GS.R with the number, in which you ordered the Z28 GS.R, painted on the car in the usual areas where race cars place their numbers (doors, hood, rear bumper ect ect).
Racing package comes with:
-Adjustable front splitter and adjustable rear duck tail spoiler that easily bolts on and replaces the factory parts (similar to the splitter/spoiler on the Intimidator Camaro)
-Daytime headlight shields that match the racing stripes (as seen in pic #2)
-Rear seat delete with rear "Z" brace (instead of "X" brace, why not)
-Functional mail slot (as seen in pic #2)
-Fiber glass hood with hood pins
-Fiber glass trunk lid
-Brake duct kit replaces factory fog lights
-Functional rear brake ducts with brake duct kit (as seen in pic #2)
-Interior radiator guard for upper and lower grille
-Front and rear tow hooks (as seen in pic #2)
-Decal package containing all you see below

Just a gimmic really, nothing special except the number in which you placed your order painted on the car... something special for that 1%.

Of course the regular Z28's will still be available at the base MSRP whatever it may be...

There you go getting off "basic".

[thePill]

Originally Posted by anthonyj9h

pill i like you, you think outside of the box and it seems that me and you think like. lol prob is my typing looks like my brain all jumbled from one thought to another and off on another and another lol anyway, 3300 would be perfect maybe lower for performance, fuel, and emissions that the new CAFE regulations are going to impliment. honestly i dont see engines really improving to much, (my idea) get the part that spins the wheels to amplfy the power output of the engine.....are you listening gm...less fuel to power the engine to max load and all the added stress should be on the "transmission" im still working the details and yes this would change how the car industry

Just after I typed that I ran across this interesting piece of info. Seems that GM is having trouble keeping the weight down in the Alpha platform. This is another reason why it is better that the 6th Gen Camaro comes out last, after GM figures all this out..

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...dreams-103001/

[anthonyj9h]

yeah i read that too not surprised really

[thePill]

Originally Posted by anthonyj9h

yeah i read that too not surprised really

They will figure it out, most of that weight is Cadillac's requirements.

According to sources familiar with the Alpha program both internally at GM and the supplier level, GM has made several other additions to the requirement list of Alpha beyond engines. Among the additions were: a new electronics system and aerodynamic shutters (similar to the Volt).

Each addition has caused another issue to engineer around, thus causing the Alpha program to exceed GM's mass requirements for the car by nearly 500-pounds. It is unclear how heavy Alpha products will be, but every independent Alpha source GMI has communicated with has indicated that the final curb weight could push 4,000-pounds unless GM puts the program on a mass reduction plan before launch.

Another issue the Alpha program has been strapped with is the addition of Alpha+ about halfway through development. The Alpha+ chassis is a larger variant of Alpha, intended for use with the next-generation Cadillac CTS. Naturally, Cadillac has another list of requirements for Alpha+, including the need to accommodate twin-turbo V-6 engines. This has added another layer of complexity to the Alpha program, driving up both costs and mass.

[anthonyj9h]

very true cost vs. mass has been a prob gm has battle with alot and it looks like they dont have a choice and are rushing everything till 2016

[thePill]

Originally Posted by anthonyj9h

very true cost vs. mass has been a prob gm has battle with alot and it looks like they dont have a choice and are rushing everything till 2016

I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this but, this is something Ford has learned to do that will make it possible to still share a chassis but not be overwhelmed by sedan requirements from a brother company (or cousin company). Ford dumped a lot of money into the Shelby Cobra/GR-1 chassis about 4 or 5 years ago. It was based on the Ford GT and will most definitely underpin the new Ford GT. Ford will hash out a sports coupe from the chassis that will be the Mustang III, although, it will look nothing like its big brothers. It seems once Cadillac gets involved, their requested requirements start increasing the weight. Caddy doesn't have to worry about weight, but the Camaro does... It's better to start with a chassis that underpins a 2200lb sports car and make it a 3400lb sport coupe that start with a 4200lb sedan and try to make it a 3400lb sports coupe... I say, cut the Caddy out but that isn't going to happen. Looks like the 5th Gen will be around for awhile afterall...

[anthonyj9h]

lol well they did work with a certain "company" and i think your secret is safe till you see the "horsemen" lol

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by thePill

I agree with everything you said except, I believe the Alpha Camaro, if there is one, will be drastically lighter than the current car. The ATS with its base engine (4 or 6, I cant remember) is suppose to be about 3300-3400lbs, while the V8 is expected to be 3500-3600lbs. I know this is all speculation but, if that is the benchmark I totally expect Cadillac to come pretty close to those weights. Every new model vehicle will be built with weight savings in mind where previous models were not. Both Ford and GM are doing some pretty special things with high strength steel in the safety cage, engine cradle, suspension and other points within the car to make it lighter. Aluminum will be more plentiful on the next gen Camaro along with your plastics.

You also have to think about the Camaro down sizing a bit by reducing track, width, length and wheelbase perhaps a little closer to the Corvette. Inches off the vehicle are pounds as well... have faith in engineering and new materials... If GM intends for the Alpha Camaro to carry the Ecotec 2.0 then the Camaro absolutely has to be 3300-3400lbs with the engine, lower if god permits.

Edit: By the way, I have heard that the 6th Gen Camaro is going back to the swept look that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Gens had. That rumor received a 50/50 response, I am still on the /

I have faith in engineering, its what I do for a living. What I don't have faith in is dreams and miracles. Simply put, sheet metal is fairly light & cheap. Content is heavy. Safety is heavy. Structural rigidity is heavy. Aluminum is expensive. Composites are expensive.

You will not save 300 lbs by cutting a few inches off the footprint. You can decontent the car by removing sound deadening, no more powered heated seats, cheap lightweight 4 speaker stereos, and all sorts of other stuff. That would save hundreds of lbs (and quite a bit of money too). It would also turn away tens of thousands of buyers. There is no way around safety regulations so you can't really save weight that way. You can skimp a bit on the rigidity if you plan on keeping it below 400 hp and coupe only, but that means no more V8. They could build the body out of aluminum and save weight, but now a V6 costs as much as an SS used to, and the design becomes much more limited since you can't form aluminum like steel.

I'm not sure where you're getting your 3600 lb CTS V8 from. As recently as yesterday, I heard that Alpha is crowding 4000 lbs, which presumably is a V8 Alpha+ (probably next gen CTS-V)

[anthonyj9h]

honestly not to be rude it just sounds like a bunch of excuses and that gm has thrown in the towel and that we just have to accept how they build things......my response to expenses is get it done it is there job isnt it?

[thePill]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I have faith in engineering, its what I do for a living. What I don't have faith in is dreams and miracles. Simply put, sheet metal is fairly light & cheap. Content is heavy. Safety is heavy. Structural rigidity is heavy. Aluminum is expensive. Composites are expensive.

You will not save 300 lbs by cutting a few inches off the footprint. You can decontent the car by removing sound deadening, no more powered heated seats, cheap lightweight 4 speaker stereos, and all sorts of other stuff. That would save hundreds of lbs (and quite a bit of money too). It would also turn away tens of thousands of buyers. There is no way around safety regulations so you can't really save weight that way. You can skimp a bit on the rigidity if you plan on keeping it below 400 hp and coupe only, but that means no more V8. They could build the body out of aluminum and save weight, but now a V6 costs as much as an SS used to, and the design becomes much more limited since you can't form aluminum like steel.

I'm not sure where you're getting your 3600 lb CTS V8 from. As recently as yesterday, I heard that Alpha is crowding 4000 lbs, which presumably is a V8 Alpha+ (probably next gen CTS-V)

Yeah bud, I just read that too. The Camaro is just always stuck getting left overs and hand me downs, now the chassis they intended to use is being fattened up by Cadillac. If GM enters the ring with a 4000lbs pony car while Ford is intending to go lightweight this time, it will be over before it started. It starts with the Chassis, and the Alpha is (so I hear) a lightweight chassis but it won't be if Caddy keeps adding its own touches to it. This is something Ford seen coming if they were to share platforms with the Falcon. Since the Falcon is either gone and replaced by the Mustang down under (most likely) it leaves the Mustang completely free of the sedan market. The Falcon could come back in 2014 and share the Mustang's new chassis (also likely and even better) and would make a very lightweight sedan but a horrible 4 door... I don't know at this point, kinda pissed at Caddy to tell you the truth...

I would say that the 6th Gen Camaro adopts the Corvette's chassis so they could start with a very lightweight setup. They could easily reach 3200lbs with an Ecotec 2.0 and cost would still be mitigated because it still is technically global. I doubt anyone on Team Corvette would want to hear any of that though...