So if Dodge has this at SEMA - will the Z28 be soon to follow?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by BowtieGuy

I'm sure since you're such a Mopar aficionado (fancy synonym for the dreaded "f" word) you know that there is no such thing as a true "HEMI" anymore. Hemispherical head designs were inefficient and overrated. They were killed long ago.

You know, (I'm not sure if we're exactly staying on topic...) I've read that statement before, regarding the efficiency of the HEMI heads and wonder why they are so popular in racing - specifically drag racing or all-out power racing. I know they flow like a mother', and I know that Chrysler had to add a second plug to the latest generation in order to fire multiple sparks into the combustion chamber in order to burn off all the fuel and make it pass emissions (at least that's what I read) but if they're so inefficient, why do they dominate in all-out power? Maybe it's tumble and swirl property problems HEMI heads have that LS-heads are known to posses. I don't know. But yeah; they aren't really HEMIs anyways...

I don't think GM will fire back right away. I don't really think that GM is worrying about Dodge's cars because I just don't think they were engineered to appeal to the masses, like Camaro is and like the Mustang will be. The Mustang always has, IMHO, and I think that's where Camaro is going to be more focused. Now, if the GT500 is to come back, GM might fire right back, but in these times, I'm sure both companies are going to be stepping carefully - especially with all this government loan business.

[Txturbo]

Originally Posted by MrKrisSullivan

Yeah I've read in a couple different places that Dodge is barely breaking even on the production of the Viper.
It seems they want to keep makeing it as a statement, more like a trophy car for the company.
I hardly beleive the "HEMI" is a re-badged LS3, seeing how the 6.1 puts out more than GM's 6.2, why would someone copy a less effeicent design or tune?
I'm not saying the 392 is the best street HEMI they have, im saying its the second or third best everyone here and elsewhere knows what the best is... 426...

It's not a rebadged LS3, the block is a very close copy. Everything from the deck up is Chrysler.

[Dan]

Hemi heads back in the day were great for flow. However, they are murder on emissions, especially NOx. That's why the so-called hemis of today don't even have hemispherical heads, hence the phrase semi-hemi. Calling it a hemi is more marketing than anything else.

[BowtieGuy]

Originally Posted by Dan

Hemi heads back in the day were great for flow. However, they are murder on emissions, especially NOx. That's why the so-called hemis of today don't even have hemispherical heads, hence the phrase semi-hemi. Calling it a hemi is more marketing than anything else.

Yea Radz, they are efficient power makers, they just couldn't come near today's emissions standards. That's what I meant by inefficient. Sorry for any confusion.

[Muscle Master]

Originally Posted by MrKrisSullivan

Dodge has consistently under-rated their power out-puts, since the original muscle car era.
There is definatly some speculation that the R/T is putting down 390hp at the crank like the 09' Ram... So 5.7 HEMI puts down 390 6.0 LS2 400hp... Effecient... So you don't think the 6.1 has room for improvment? Come on you can't deny that at all, if they re-tuned it like they did with the 5.7 HEMI and gave it MDS I would expect the 6.1 HEMI to crank out somewhere near 475hp easily...

Your right, i saw a dyno sheet and it had 391 HP 402 ft of torque

[radz28]

Flywheel I hope...

[BowtieGuy]

I guarantee you it is

[LSxJunkie]

I don't understand how this is still going. Do any of you people read the news?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g...J3_gwD944BCJO3

[COPO_Chevy]

Originally Posted by radz282003

Go Grumpy Jenkins!!! And yes - ZL1 Camaro was the King

Oh most definitely agree with you there.

Also from the reading I've came up with said there power output varied from mid to high 500 hp stock without modding. But any COPO Chevelle, nova, or camaro (hell why not throw in the stinger corvairs ) were sweet cars. And the 1970 big cubed cars GM came out with were awesome as well

[COPO_Chevy]

Originally Posted by MrKrisSullivan

Dodge has consistently under-rated their power out-puts, since the original muscle car era.
There is definatly some speculation that the R/T is putting down 390hp at the crank like the 09' Ram... So 5.7 HEMI puts down 390 6.0 LS2 400hp... Effecient... So you don't think the 6.1 has room for improvment? Come on you can't deny that at all, if they re-tuned it like they did with the 5.7 HEMI and gave it MDS I would expect the 6.1 HEMI to crank out somewhere near 475hp easily...

And so did every other car company from the muscle car era.

[Jamestwilliams]

Originally Posted by COPO_Chevy

And so did every other car company from the muscle car era.

ZR1 Corvette from the muscle car era was probably the epitome of that, it was rated at 430hp it actually produced in the neighbourhood of 570hp. Now that's underated for insurance reasons. Of course it should have been obvious to anyone at the time as the non racing 427 cid put out 435hp.

[radz28]

I'm getting further off topic, but my understanding is technically, GM didn't underrate the ZL1 and possibly even the L88 - yeah, they made 430 and 435 horse' respectively, at like 4800 some-old RPMs, not at their actual peak RPMs; didn't these babies like to actualy be revvd' to somewhere around 7000?! Anyhoo, great insite and information.

LSx' - Do you mean since Chrysler is getting bought that there is not much of a chance of a SRT10 Chally'? I was a little confused as to what your post meant, so I'm sorry. To that end though, I could see the Chally' staying around if GM plans on hanging on to Chrysler. IMVHO, I don't think GM is going to invest little, to anymore in RWD cars, with the exception of Camaro and Corvette. These Mopars are riding on Mercedes chassis that are how many years old now and are pretty heavy, to my understanding. I'm interested in learning what the merger means - will Mopar be put out to pasture? If that's the case, I could see them selling Viper and getting rid of the LX-cars.

I'd be nice to see Z28 soon, but after reading the article about GM suspending product development for several months, I doubt we'd even see one at the '09 SEMA show. I'm hopeful we'll see something come out in '10 SEMA for the 2011 release. I rationalize this because of the 45th Anniversary of Camaro so I think it'd be entirely appropriate. Sooner would be better because I think we won't be seeing these outrageously powerful engines for much longer, but we'll see.

JMVHO

[ctk1]

If GM dosen't take them over right away, Chrysler probably will build that. That is a perfect examample of why Chrysler is on its death bed. They will have several million dollars invested in that car if it goes into production, and they might sell what, 3,000 a year IF they are lucky! I want a supercharged z28 as bad as anyone, but I commend GM on being careful with their spending.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by ctk1

If GM dosen't take them over right away, Chrysler probably will build that. That is a perfect examample of why Chrysler is on its death bed. They will have several million dollars invested in that car if it goes into production, and they might sell what, 3,000 a year IF they are lucky! I want a supercharged z28 as bad as anyone, but I commend GM on being careful with their spending.

Hopefully, this is just a publicity car. Chrysler is a mess right now, and I'd love to see them get enough positive press to make some sales. Unfortunately, this won't be positive press. The way that the automotive media portrays American cars is terrible. They'll say that it has a lot of power but will blow up in 6 months or that this detachment from the needs of the average buyer is the reason that the average buyer has defected to Asia for acceptable economy cars.

If GM acquires Chrysler, it will be a very careful transaction. GM has plenty of dealers and platforms right now, so I imagine that a lot of Chrysler's lineup would be sold or axed. I can't imagine GM keeping 3 full lines of trucks, for instance. GMC is going to have to go for Dodge to stay. There will be a lot of brand-reduction, and hopefully Chrysler brands can be appropriately integrated into the GM lineup while maintaining their independence.