2012 CAMARO Z28 - with 6.2L supercharged V8 SPOTTED AND CONFIRMED!

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Why are so many caught up in how the Z28 looks. I wouldn't care if it looks like an LS. You buy a Z28 for performance not to have the fanciest looking Camaro on the road.

I agree, for me the Z/28 is all about the performance, not the "looks". The more it looks like an LS, the bigger "sleeper" it is.
Clyde

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by wildpaws

I agree, for me the Z/28 is all about the performance, not the "looks". The more it looks like an LS, the bigger "sleeper" it is.
Clyde

The originals didn't look too different from a base I6 did they?

[Andy45422]

I read all 24 pages and every comment on the thread...even though it is clear that GM would not divulge any information with putting an emblem on the exterior and the appearance of a mule car is of the least importance... I would love to see the bow ties in blue out of the factory. To all the skeptics the car will out perform the GT500.... it has no choice.
Only my second post but I read this site daily.... GM please bring back those nostalgic colors and various interior color options. Hopefully they will offer a SOLID interior color as opposed to just having the inserts colored (ie. the orange inserts on black)
regardless I will own a 2012 Z/28.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

The originals didn't look too different from a base I6 did they?

1969 "look": Rallye wheels with chrome trim rings, D80 spoilers (chin and trunk), wide stripes on hood and trunk unless you ordered "stripe delete" (those stripes were originally Z/28 only but were later made available on a wide range of Camaros), and the Z/28 sat two inches lower than the SS and base models. I think the pics we've seen so far of the "supposed" new Z/28 are not showing all of the changes in the look that will be in the final version.
Clyde

[syr74]

Originally Posted by OldJedi

The Z/28 was way under rated. The true horsepower was actually between 390 and 400HP. However, there was a high revving cam in the car and most of the power came in the upper band. A 396 big block Camaro would take a Z/28 in the first 1/8th of a mile because of the torque but the Z/28 would win in the 1/4 mile top end when the revs built up and the cam kicked in. The Z/28 was definitely NOT the weakest Camaro.

Weaker argument aside, being a Ford devotee I loved the Boss 302 which, like it's cross town rival, was a bit under-rated. But 400hp? Not even close out of either car. Possibly with no accessories attached through an open exhaust and with a bit of creative ignition and carb work you might get close to that number...but stock? No way in Hades. The 289ci Shelby V8's that were absolutely dominating the road courses in Daytona's just a few years prior to these cars were barely knocking down that kind of power in the race cars and they were a lot more massaged than either of these.

Even more, these things, both the Boss and the Z, were high 14 second cars under the absolute best of circumstances in stock trim...that isn't 400hp. Heck, my old 351 Cleveland powered Mach-1 would have absolutely throttled either one of those cars stock and even mildly modified I assure you I wasn't making a legit, full 400hp at the crank with all of the accessories attached and the exhaust hooked up. (back in the early 90's) I was probably 385hp or so given the acceleration my car laid down.

[ShadowSky]

I don't think that SS should be the top dog, considering the the Z28 was a born purpose built race car, i think it should keep it place in the elite f body cars... Either way it gose, i doubt it will be a high prodution car, More of an order only deal and for that kinda of money a Zo6 or a grand sport would be a better deal. Even if it is used, but i would rather have a FireBreather... but thats just me

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by syr74

Weaker argument aside, being a Ford devotee I loved the Boss 302 which, like it's cross town rival, was a bit under-rated. But 400hp? Not even close out of either car. Possibly with no accessories attached through an open exhaust and with a bit of creative ignition and carb work you might get close to that number...but stock? No way in Hades. The 289ci Shelby V8's that were absolutely dominating the road courses in Daytona's just a few years prior to these cars were barely knocking down that kind of power in the race cars and they were a lot more massaged than either of these.

Even more, these things, both the Boss and the Z, were high 14 second cars under the absolute best of circumstances in stock trim...that isn't 400hp. Heck, my old 351 Cleveland powered Mach-1 would have absolutely throttled either one of those cars stock and even mildly modified I assure you I wasn't making a legit, full 400hp at the crank with all of the accessories attached and the exhaust hooked up. (back in the early 90's) I was probably 385hp or so given the acceleration my car laid down.

Aaaaahhhhh the good ole butt dyno. Always accurate.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

Aaaaahhhhh the good ole butt dyno. Always accurate.

Please. Performance doesn't lie, it told the truth on the Z28 and it told the truth on my Mach-1. The notion that the Z28 was a 400hp car isn't just far fetched, it's ridiculous.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by syr74

Weaker argument aside, being a Ford devotee I loved the Boss 302 which, like it's cross town rival, was a bit under-rated. But 400hp? Not even close out of either car. Possibly with no accessories attached through an open exhaust and with a bit of creative ignition and carb work you might get close to that number...but stock? No way in Hades. The 289ci Shelby V8's that were absolutely dominating the road courses in Daytona's just a few years prior to these cars were barely knocking down that kind of power in the race cars and they were a lot more massaged than either of these.

Even more, these things, both the Boss and the Z, were high 14 second cars under the absolute best of circumstances in stock trim...that isn't 400hp. Heck, my old 351 Cleveland powered Mach-1 would have absolutely throttled either one of those cars stock and even mildly modified I assure you I wasn't making a legit, full 400hp at the crank with all of the accessories attached and the exhaust hooked up. (back in the early 90's) I was probably 385hp or so given the acceleration my car laid down.

Today's estimates of Z/28 302 HP output done by people with far more data and knowledge than I have came up with 350-400 HP at the crank in a stock DZ302 (from several different sources). Chevy's own dyno runs from back in the day with slightly modified heads were pulling 440HP@7,400 RPM using the stock 800CFM Holley four barrel (and 470@7,400 with FI, 466@7,400 using two 600CFM Holleys on the cross ram). The Boss 302 was a blatant copy of the Chevy 302 engine after Ford's 1968 302 Tunnel Port Trans Am engine had been a disaster. It took Bunkie Knudsen and Larry Shinoda moving over from Chevy to Ford and having Ford racing teams buying crate Chevy 302s and taking them apart to see why they ran so well for Ford to really develop the Boss 302. Perhaps your "butt dyno" and facts need to be updated??
Clyde

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by syr74

Please. Performance doesn't lie, it told the truth on the Z28 and it told the truth on my Mach-1. The notion that the Z28 was a 400hp car isn't just far fetched, it's ridiculous.

While it certainly would never be 400SAE HP, I think it's been pretty well substansiated over the years that it was around 400 gross HP at the crank. My reply a few posts above addresses your "concerns". Don't take my word for it, just do some research and see what conclusion you come up with after thorough research.
Clyde

[a_Username]

The Z/28 was underrated, but there isn't a general consensus on how much underrated. I've seen reports from 360hp all the way to 420hp. That is such a wide gap, however it was probably capable of mid 14s at 360hp and low 13s with a 420hp rating.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by wildpaws

While it certainly would never be 400SAE HP, I think it's been pretty well substansiated over the years that it was around 400 gross HP at the crank. My reply a few posts above addresses your "concerns". Don't take my word for it, just do some research and see what conclusion you come up with after thorough research.
Clyde

You're basically saying exactly what I said earlier. Around 400hp gross effectively meant no accessories, no exhaust, a tweaked ignition that looked stock but wasn't (perfectly curbed distributor, etc) and a carb that received attention no factory model was ever going to get. Throw in what would have certainly been a perfectly timed camshaft and a million other little tweaks (everything was likely perfectly blueprinted) that are very difficult to detect but were almost always there either way and you have a near 400hp motor. Manufacturers did it all the time.

That said, no way did a bone stock Z28 on the dealership lot make 400hp at the crank.

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by a_Username

The Z/28 was underrated, but there isn't a general consensus on how much underrated. I've seen reports from 360hp all the way to 420hp. That is such a wide gap, however it was probably capable of mid 14s at 360hp and low 13s with a 420hp rating.

And I gave a range of 350-400hp that was reported from several different sources. I think that we really need to get back to the topic at hand as all of this has been discussed completely in the past and we are now really beating a dead horse!! While I don't think I'll be really happy with the new Z/28 (because I want different things than what it looks like we'll get), I'm sure it will be well received by most people.
Clyde

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by syr74

You're basically saying exactly what I said earlier. Around 400hp gross effectively meant no accessories, no exhaust, a tweaked ignition that looked stock but wasn't (perfectly curbed distributor, etc) and a carb that received attention no factory model was ever going to get. Throw in what would have certainly been a perfectly timed camshaft and a million other little tweaks (everything was likely perfectly blueprinted) that are very difficult to detect but were almost always there either way and you have a near 400hp motor. Manufacturers did it all the time.

That said, no way did a bone stock Z28 on the dealership lot make 400hp at the crank.

It is really getting boring now. How many "bone stock" Z/28s and Boss302s do you think were running around on the street? All of them? Most of them?Half of them? None of them? Out of all the owners I knew in a Chevy performance club in my area back in '69/'70 (Camaros, Chevelles, Novas, etc.) there were damn few you could call "bone stock", that's just the way it was, most guys that bought performance cars worked on them to make them faster. Fortunately in this day and age,we'll have a realistic SAE starting point for the new Z/28 which will not necessitate this type of discussion in the future. How about we go back to the original topic now?
Clyde