Oil pump kaput!

[litle88]

Lol wow you really are a troll

Sorry Pleeeeease forgive me. I meant lifter.

Wow now your learning keep sipping.

[strych9]

Wow. I come back to check on the OP's progress only to find out that he's MIA, CFD's rig is stewed, and there's a fist fight going on. I gotta check in more often.

FWIW, litle88's opinions are pretty valuable. Not withstanding, spirited discussion is always entertaining.

[CFD]

I've been busy with this, not MIA. lol. I don't have good feelings about this, here is why. The cam lobe shows some scuffing from contacting the lifter minus the roller but nothing that would suggest changing the cam, there are two small scratches in the lifter bore from removing the lifter but again nothing that bothers me much. I used the camera and checked all around the cam area as best I could and couldn't see the missing roller or any other parts. I wanted to see if I could find any missing parts so I ran the oil I changed when doing the pump through a filter and found a very small amount of debris, I wasn't expecting to do it so the drain pan wasn't spotless to begin with. I then drained the new oil and ran it through the filter, I found a good bit more debris than with the old oil which makes me believe the damage to the lifter was done due to the loss of oil pressure and possibly while running it after the pump change. I tried a small magnet in the pan but couldn't come up with any debris but can get very little access of the pan. I haven't started it as I'm concerned about the location of the missing parts. I'm hoping they are in the pan and not someplace in the cam area that I couldn't see. I'm going to start it briefly in the am , if all sounds ok I'll shut it down and get it to my buddy's shop and get it on the rack and as I mentioned, the cross member is history. Making a bolt in cross member will be no problem. I'm just hopping the missing parts are in the pan, if not, well, let's just say I wont be happy. lol.

I'm still trying to comprehend how the roller,pin and bearings came out without munging up the holes for the pin, I doubt the pin coud shear and have everything come appart without damaging the holes or the small portion of lifter under them but as you can see in the pictures they are not damaged.

[james347]

Good Lord man, scrub those fingernails!

Originally Posted by CFD

This sucks. Now I'm wondering if I jumped the gun thinking it was a typical pump failure, the lifter is out but the roller,bearings and pin are missing. The odd thing is the holes in the side of the lifter where the pin presses in are in tact with no visable damage. At this point I'm not sure if the lifter failed taking the pump with it or the other way around. Where as the car never skipped a beat untill it lost pressure I'm thinking the pump failed first but it ran for such a short time I don't see how the lifter would break

Any how, the lifter bore is in good shape and the cam lobe is in tact so I'm going to put it together. I think I may drop the pan to clean it out which means i will be cutting the cross member and fabricating a bolt on one. THERE IS NO WAY ON EARTH I'M GONNA PULL THE MOTOR TO CLEAN THE PAN.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by james347

Good Lord man, scrub those fingernails!

You get dirty working on cars!!

[james347]

True.

Just joking around.

Thanks for posting the pics and updates. Will be very good info if I ever encounter this situation. Hope it gets sorted out soon!

Originally Posted by CFD

You get dirty working on cars!!

[POS Dakota]

Originally Posted by litle88

He's gotta be Irish! Lol
That would of NEVEF happened to me, the lobe would of seized to the cam if it was me lol.

Exactly!

[gnturboray]

Originally Posted by litle88

What GM high volume pump is that? You got a part number? Thanks

GM part #L200135297

[Mr pogo]

Originally Posted by CFD

I'm still trying to comprehend how the roller,pin and bearings came out without munging up the holes for the pin, I doubt the pin coud shear and have everything come appart without damaging the holes or the small portion of lifter under them but as you can see in the pictures they are not damaged.

if the pin was held in by a press in/interference fit and the lifter got hot from lack of lube, that would explain the lifter body expanding allowing the pin to come out and the lifter to seize in the bore.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by Mr pogo

if the pin was held in by a press in/interference fit and the lifter got hot from lack of lube, that would explain the lifter body expanding allowing the pin to come out and the lifter to seize in the bore.

I'm not happy with thae explanation. It would have to get extremely hot to allow that much expansion, where as the lifter is assembled both parts would get hot so the expansion between the two would not be that great, the valve springs pressure would also make it more difficult for the pin to just slide out and the pin would have to move sideways when the valvtrain motion is up and down. I'm not saying it's not possible, obviously it some how came out. It is also possible that the pin some how sheard and both ends came out but also seems kind on unlikely seeing there is no damage to the holes. Maybe if I can recover the pieces it will shed some light on the cause of failure. I also wish I was sure which happened first, lifter failure or pump failure.

[CFD]

IT'S ALIVE.

Started it this morning and it sounds healthy as usual. There are no abnormal noises as of yet. I haven't driven it as the missing lifter pieces are in there somewhere, hopefully in the pan. I am going to try to get it to my buddy's shop later and drop the pan.

I am not sure yet but I think i came up with how I will deal with the cross member. I'm thinking of cutting it with a sawzall then programing four flanges that will be a tight fit over the member, then the flanges can be put on, bolted together and then welded to the crossmember pieces. This will allow for a tight fit and be removeable if needed in the future. If this works out I will be able to make flanges for anyone who needs to drop their pan and does not want to remove the motor. This is a similar design that I've used before when i built my '31 chevy frame.

[2SSCAMARO]

Glad to hear you're making progress. You certainly have done a lot of work in a short period of time. Have you considered trying a strong electro magnet across the outside of the pan and attempt to drag the internal steel debris over to the drain hole? Here is one site than has some magnets. It might be worth a shot before dropping the pan. Good luck.

http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/Clam...784&007=Search

[CFD]

Originally Posted by 2SSCAMARO

Glad to hear you're making progress. You certainly have done a lot of work in a short period of time. Have you considered trying a strong electro magnet across the outside of the pan and attempt to drag the internal steel debris over to the drain hole? Here is one site than has some magnets. It might be worth a shot before dropping the pan. Good luck.

http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/Clam...784&007=Search

Having the right tools and the experience allowed me to just get in and get it done.

I've thought about magnets, going in with the camera to see if i could spot the parts, flushing it out but i would be much more confident in dropping the pan. The possibility of missing a small piece that could end up back in the pump is not worth it. besides, making the cross memeber removeable makes sense to me and may prove usefull to others who are faced with the same problem. from all the reports on failed pumps,tensioners and lifters a solution other than pulling the motor is in order.

[2SSCAMARO]

You're right. Short cuts and easy way outs often come back to bite you in the ass later.