Shno's House of Z

[2cnd chance]

Number 3, there's a thread in the ZL1 section based on weight. I know we've discussed weight loss before, but my question is; in the development of the Camaro what would you have liked to see done to keep the weight down from an engineering perspective? Thanks.

p.s. using this platform

[tramtwo]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Good job!

Thanks... the real issue for me is I don't fit in this car with a helmet. Was not comfortable at all I had to have my "ghetto lean on" hard to drive fast with your head leaning to one side. Here was my last run raw video...

http://youtu.be/3WR9tXXXkdM that 97 supercharged vet in front of me was a BEAST!

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by tramtwo

Thanks... the real issue for me is I don't fit in this car with a helmet. Was not comfortable at all I had to have my "ghetto lean on" hard to drive fast with your head leaning to one side. Here was my last run raw video...

http://youtu.be/3WR9tXXXkdM that 97 supercharged vet in front of me was a BEAST!

How tall are you cause I'm 6'3"?

[tramtwo]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

How tall are you cause I'm 6'3"?

I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam. This car has a sunroof remember. Also with the seat leaning back I could fit without leaning to the side but did not feel at all in control in that position. Also this was a rented helmet... Simpson I think was the brand.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by tramtwo

I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam. This car has a sunroof remember. Also with the seat leaning back I could fit without leaning to the side but did not feel at all in control in that position. Also this was a rented helmet... Simpson I think was the brand.

Oh yeah. Sunroof in the sig pic.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Number 3, there's a thread in the ZL1 section based on weight. I know we've discussed weight loss before, but my question is; in the development of the Camaro what would you have liked to see done to keep the weight down from an engineering perspective? Thanks.

p.s. using this platform

We've had many good discussions on this over the years.

I think the Camaro, considering the starting Zeta architecture, is pretty mass efficient already. It's just a big car. It's like that 265 linebacker that already runs a 4.6 40 and you wonder how fast he woul be if he weighed what a Dback would weigh. Problem is if you lighten that guy up he is now just anoher Dback. So to maintain it's price point and all around good qualities, it's already a pretty decent package for cost vs. mass.

First question is do you want to maintain all of the Camaros current features?

And the second is do you want t maintain the Camaros price point?

There are certainly things you could apply from Z06 technology with advanced matrials but that would add the same level of pricing change from a base Corvette to the Z06..........and that is (or after this week WAS) a large amount.

As for content, you could simply take all the fluff out of the car like has been discussed by many C5 members. Still haven't heard of anyone that did this and weighed the car before and after.

No rear seat or belts
Fixed passnger seat
Manual driver seat (for/aft and recline only)
No redundant steering wheel controls
No cruise cotrol
No sound deadening materials
No trunk trim or carpeting
No spare tire or inflator kit (not sure if you can legally elimnate a jack and tire iron)
No console or armrest or cup holders
No accessory outlets
No OnStar (tough for GM to do that)
Simple two speaker stereo (basic tunes for the odd time you don't want to just enjoy listening to the car)
Light weight battery (Corvette had glass matt with limited success) probably other low weight choices if you give up CCA for cold starting??
Forged lightweight wheels 19 instead of 20's (2os are for looks more than performance?)
No fog lamps
Could look at thinner glass all the way around at the epense of noise, but there are other things to consider that may make that difficult
No power mirrors

BTW you still need power windows to enable the indexing glass to open and close the doors.

So that might be an LS with even fewer accomodations and adding the SS powertrain, chassis and brakes.

So that is a pretty crude car for the most part, noisy at best and not nearly as comfortable. And if you did all of that decontenting you might save 150 pounds on an SS. For me it wouldn't be worth it. For a track rat might be acceptable.

GM, for the price point, already used a lot of high strength steel etc. to keep the weight down.

[2cnd chance]

Thanks good info!

Any guess how much weight carbon fiber front fenders would save? And what would it add to the cars retail? Thanks again.

[OldScoolCamaro]

...ok, winters day fun, went to the dealership and looked around< not that we don't do that every month anyway...but> ...Chevy Traverse I became fond of. Nice!. The right size, lots of upgrades, every customer convenience one can imagine...but....the 3.6 gets 18 to 24 MPG <LTZ gets 28 MPG>. Real sharp, and comfy, but....for long trips not a give back on MPG which we are looking for. Can we not do better somehow on MPG.....

[ShnOmac]

[FenwickHockey65]

The most Traverse does in any trim is 24 MPG. GM wishes it would do 28.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Number 3

What did I miss?

BTW, of my Facebook friends Pete is THE most prolific poster. Not here any more hardly drops by. Facebook? All over the place. Just sayin'

Getting very quiet in here lately.

There are days I don't want to deal with brand-x BS so I just stay away. That is the value of FB. It is my page and the axx holes don't dare post there.

Originally Posted by tramtwo

He lets me follow him but won't accept my friend request.

tramtwo posted this on the go

Why wouldn't I. Please PM your FB name.

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

...I am optimistically waiting for the other shoe to drop...announcement wise...about domestic Chevy performance models, engines, options, IE C6,....things are quiet indeed...we need a Camaro fix from some tangible source or semi credible "approved" leaked information to sustain us during this doldrum period....otherwise things are at a pace of watching grass grow or paint dry..... Nice Chevy Cruze wagons are scheduled for the EU market, why not here???? That's why I purchased a Jetta Sportwagon TDI in '11. I got the diesel, a small wagon, and the GOV tax incentive. If the Cruze wagon, as being produced for abroad, with the current body style and engine platform was available domestically, I would buy it. What gives?

I am semi-credible. I am semi-lots-of-things. At the new York Auto Show we will see the new 2014 5th Gen Fascias and other updates. The Automotive News said "performance updates". I still say there is an LS7 Z/28 coming, but I don't have a credible source for that one.

Wagons are a tough sell in the USA. My wife had and loved until it was too long in tooth a Chrysler Pacifica AWD. Not speaking in terms of quality or style it was a great vehicle for us. It didn't look or drive like a minivan, but it had all the functionality of a minivan. That layout should have been a winner. Obviously it is not as there isn't anything close to it currently available.

The HHR SS filled a wagon like niche. Pedderised it pulled .97 on factory wheels and tires

Originally Posted by tramtwo

I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam. This car has a sunroof remember. Also with the seat leaning back I could fit without leaning to the side but did not feel at all in control in that position. Also this was a rented helmet... Simpson I think was the brand.

Real performance cars don't have holes in the roof... because they take up helmet space.

Originally Posted by Number 3

We've had many good discussions on this over the years.

I think the Camaro, considering the starting Zeta architecture, is pretty mass efficient already. It's just a big car. It's like that 265 linebacker that already runs a 4.6 40 and you wonder how fast he woul be if he weighed what a Dback would weigh. Problem is if you lighten that guy up he is now just anoher Dback. So to maintain it's price point and all around good qualities, it's already a pretty decent package for cost vs. mass.

First question is do you want to maintain all of the Camaros current features?

And the second is do you want t maintain the Camaros price point?

There are certainly things you could apply from Z06 technology with advanced matrials but that would add the same level of pricing change from a base Corvette to the Z06..........and that is (or after this week WAS) a large amount.

As for content, you could simply take all the fluff out of the car like has been discussed by many C5 members. Still haven't heard of anyone that did this and weighed the car before and after.

No rear seat or belts
Fixed passnger seat
Manual driver seat (for/aft and recline only)
No redundant steering wheel controls
No cruise cotrol
No sound deadening materials
No trunk trim or carpeting
No spare tire or inflator kit (not sure if you can legally elimnate a jack and tire iron)
No console or armrest or cup holders
No accessory outlets
No OnStar (tough for GM to do that)
Simple two speaker stereo (basic tunes for the odd time you don't want to just enjoy listening to the car)
Light weight battery (Corvette had glass matt with limited success) probably other low weight choices if you give up CCA for cold starting??
Forged lightweight wheels 19 instead of 20's (2os are for looks more than performance?)
No fog lamps
Could look at thinner glass all the way around at the epense of noise, but there are other things to consider that may make that difficult
No power mirrors

BTW you still need power windows to enable the indexing glass to open and close the doors.

So that might be an LS with even fewer accomodations and adding the SS powertrain, chassis and brakes.

So that is a pretty crude car for the most part, noisy at best and not nearly as comfortable. And if you did all of that decontenting you might save 150 pounds on an SS. For me it wouldn't be worth it. For a track rat might be acceptable.

GM, for the price point, already used a lot of high strength steel etc. to keep the weight down.

2014 SS / VF / Commodore more high strength steel and I hear alloy arms. I also suspect 5th Gen spec hubs, ball joints, etc. Some of those lighter parts could possibly find their way into a 2014 5th Gen????

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

[mlee]

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Hope all is well Pete!

[JusticePete]

How could I forget? Big 3 paperwork: PPAP, Standards, The minimum and maximum length of the nails used in the pallets. Performance Objectives to be met, but no corporate budget to validate the Performance Objectives. #3 knows this drill all too well.

I have pretty much had enough mindless paperwork. I am well aware of the need for quality controls. No matter how you cut it, what we will supply are Tier 2 parts, aftermarket style parts. We are not going to shut down an assembly line. If by some miracle we sell so many Big 3 branded performance parts we over run our capacity the Big 3 and Pedders will be celebrating the sales and not worrying about the constraint.

Tell me what the tolerance is for increased NVH in exchange for meeting your performance objectives, send me two cars (one to modify and one stays bone stock for side by side testing) and I'll deliver exactly what you asked for on or under budget. I think it was the on or under budget part that was hard to understand.

I am beginning to see a pattern. I am right about everything, but the rest of the world struggles with that. Except for my friends here in the house.