Stock 1LE strut tower bar vs BMR 2-point?

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Don't kid yourself they work. If you drive it to the max , they are a benefit .

Prove it .

PS. You can't.


Yes they can work well on many vehicle. For instance a Honda Civic that is seeing torsional stress can benefit greatly from a strut tower brace as it is being subject to conditions on a racetrack that it was not intended to see.

On center feel can be improved on the 5th Gen with a bar. But it is unnecessary weight sitting high over the front of the vehicle, not a place you want it.

[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Prove it .

PS. You can't.


Yes they can work well on many vehicle. For instance a Honda Civic that is seeing torsional stress can benefit greatly from a strut tower brace as it is being subject to conditions on a racetrack that it was not intended to see.

On center feel can be improved on the 5th Gen with a bar. But it is unnecessary weight sitting high over the front of the vehicle, not a place you want it.

NEITHER CAN YOU prove it . And both of us do not have an engineering degree ,but the people who designed the Camaro Do . So believe what you want ,no point in beating a dead horse any longer .

[White_SS/RS]

Yup!

[Camaro Dude]

Once again, the 'dude must dig in his archives, for the benefit of the good.

http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3per...bar_theory.htm

And BTW, the E30 M3 is a tight, well built car .

[toehead93]

too many pseudo-engineers here, let this be anwered by real engineers:


Case closed.


...if you trust Pfadt engineers over C5 forum boys (no offense, I am one too).

[Camaro Dude]

I'm beginning to like this thread.

[its a syn]

The BMR STB looks cool! lol!! I can't say for sure what the strut tower brace does, because I installed the whole Level 2 BMR package at the same time. Along with trailing arms and toe rods. It is by far the best upgrade to my Camaro so far. Now if work would give me some time off, I would really like to get it out on the track and enjoy it.

[toehead93]

I am not saying that any one of us can actually feel a difference but it definitely works to strengthen the car. To say otherwise is just not correct. If you don't have one then it might be hard to justify for little benefit, if you one I see no reason to remove it.

[JimE]

There are numerous threads, a few listed here, that basically indicate that it's not needed. Does it strengthen the car, yes. But that still doesn't mean it's needed. Aside from weight, if you already have it, no reason to remove it. Spending money to replace it (the whole point of this thread) is just silly and a waste of money that is better spent elsewhere.

[Camaro Dude]

Logic may dictate, if you are going to drive in a straight line most of the time, no you don't need it. I wound argue though, if your roads SUCK like they do here, a bar may not hurt.

If you are going to auto X, road race, and plan to keep it for a good solid decade and more, you might be wise to slap one on for good measure.

As for BMR bar over 1LE bar, that's pure aesthetic perspective and standpoint nothing more, from a $ to mod standpoint.

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by GONIF

NEITHER CAN YOU prove it . And both of us do not have an engineering degree ,but the people who designed the Camaro Do . So believe what you want ,no point in beating a dead horse any longer .

Since we are yelling YES I CAN PROVE IT, but you, nor the forum are worth the consequences. I haven't made a single change to my car without consulting and discussing the cause /effect with.....wait for it..........real GM engineers. But at the risk of my contacts and my position within the industry I chose employment over an internet pissing match.

Originally Posted by GONIF

GM has real engineers who know what works .You can bet they didn't just put them on for looks .

This made me LOL, as with any large company they do have "real" engineers. Some really good ones and some really bad ones. I have worked with both over my years and fortunately many of the really bad ones have "found new opportunities outside of GM"

Not everything on a car is about function. It is sometimes about what the customer wants. Look at the Corvette for all those years with the plated Chrome wheels. GM offered a magnesium lighter weight option for real enthusiast. But the majority of the cars running around have chrome plated (read heavier, more rotation mass, lower performance) wheels as that is what the customer wanted. The "real" engineers have to sometimes makes design what will sell as well...(that is another discussion about Styling vs. Engineering)

Bottom line I want to go as fast as possible and I make my decisions based on data gathered through my resources and with feedback (data) from the track.....I don't run a strut bar as I am faster without it. Other may feel they need it. (Ever heard of Placebo effect)

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by toehead93

too many pseudo-engineers here, let this be anwered by real engineers:


Case closed.


...if you trust Pfadt engineers over C5 forum boys (no offense, I am one too).

I don't trust a single company out there that makes their living trying to sell products. I was involved in the aftermarket for many years. I watched videos that were shot at our facility on the dyno to justify claims of HP increases for products. After baseline runs one company inflated the tires on the car for less rolling resistance, let the car cool for 2 hours and sprayed nitrous into the air near the air filter to get the hero run it needed to back their power claim.

I am taking about the stock strut tower brace, the Pfadt one does not use the stock mounting location. The best option out there is a triangulation between both struts and the firewall.

Originally Posted by Camaro Dude

The guys who write strut bars have no effect...I hope you are referring to this chassis in particular?

Does the above apply to out cars? I don't know, you tell me.

Yes, this car, this chassis, stock brace....

Many other cars will benefit from a bracing

Originally Posted by toehead93

. If you don't have one then it might be hard to justify for little benefit, if you one I see no reason to remove it.

Agree 100%.....But I also removed my fog lights to drop some weight...about.75lbs, but eventually all the little changes add up.

[Camaro Dude]

The suits, penny pinching at the bean counter have a say as well, not just the engineers.

No car at this price point is an engineering marvel, sorry to say.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Not everything on a car is about function. It is often about what the customer wants.

This. +1,000 (or what he/she thinks they want). I fixed it for you.

A big negative about the bar is that you can't use the easy take on/off HexVent drip pans. I might take mine off too. My car needs some weight loss and I could cool off my engine faster.

However, given the obsessive attention paid to weight on the Z/28, I wonder if there is some benefit once you put race tires on the car. Or here again does DropSpeed's maxim apply, even to the holy Z/28?