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Old 10-05-2014, 08:36 PM   #267
Nick S

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropspeed View Post
Do it do it do it so it

Does that help?
Just what I need. One more "bad" influence

Thanks for the encouragement Matt!
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Old 10-06-2014, 12:07 AM   #268
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You don't need to worry about stocks; they keep re-stocking it. With those prices, the kit now comes at $900! It is too cheap to ignore, but I will try to keep calm and not buy!
How am I going to pay my bills if you guys keep tempting me to mod like this .
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Old 10-06-2014, 12:11 AM   #269
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How am I going to pay my bills if you guys keep tempting me to mod like this .
No kidding; speaking of stocks, I think I'll need to sell a few stocks to get back to the 'clean' : )
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:47 AM   #270
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I sold my stock Red calipers with lines, pads, bolt. Etc for $800 to offset the brakes

When I purchased the Z/28 wheels I sold the stock wheels for $2600 with tires/TPMS.

What do you want and what can you live without .

Matt
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:15 AM   #271
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This brake upgrade is almost mandatory IMHO.

I sold my red 1LE calipers for $900 and then sold the rotors locally for $150. I'm maybe a grand in the hole on the set up.

Worth every penny...

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Old 10-06-2014, 03:15 PM   #272
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I agree with firefighter. I get soo many compliments on the calipers and how big there are. The girls love the big calipers too. Lol. Ohh yeah plus they stop on a dime. I had to brake cause someone A/hole cut me off on the freeway and my Camaro stopped quickly!

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Old 10-06-2014, 03:28 PM   #273
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When it comes to stopping in traffic, my concern isn't what's in front of me, but rather the distracted a-hole following too close behind me.
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Old 10-06-2014, 03:44 PM   #274
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Yea that too!!! I'm also constantly observing my rear view mirror.

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Old 10-06-2014, 04:22 PM   #275
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I suppose the ZL1 stock pad has a bit more bite than stock SS pads, but really, the point of this upgrade is to increase heat capacity, not the bite. You can easily match or surpass the bite with more agressive pads. Actually, the fact that Motortrend was able to stop at 94 feet with stock SS brakes and Z/28 wheels with Trofeos nicely prove the capabilities of stock SS Brembos.

I am really torn. I don't want to add weight, yet I'd love to add extra heat and cooling capacity. I'm still debating if I should rather install StopTech ST60s, which are 3-4 lbs lighter per wheel than stock SS brakes despite using 15" rotors. In comparison, ZL1/CTS-V brakes are about 3 lbs heavier than SS Brembos as far as I understand. So, StopTech brakes could save me 6-7 lbs of unsprung and mostly rotating weight per front wheel in comparison with this brake upgrade. StopTechs run you $2600 :(

I have to say it again: besides looks, I don't see any point in this upgrade for street use.
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:41 PM   #276
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The stock SS pads and ZL1/CTS-V pads are the same material. The only extra bite will come with the added surface area. I haven't done the swap yet so I can't confirm who much difference that makes. FYI, the CTS-V upgrade is $1,017 plus the cost of new caliper bolts. Are you willing to pay over $370 per pound to save 7lbs? I am not, I would buy the CTS-V claipers and look at 2-piece racing brake rotors for a light weight option unless there is some design deature in the stoptech calipers that adds to its worth.
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:54 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toehead93 View Post
The stock SS pads and ZL1/CTS-V pads are the same material. The only extra bite will come with the added surface area. I haven't done the swap yet so I can't confirm who much difference that makes. FYI, the CTS-V upgrade is $1,017 plus the cost of new caliper bolts. Are you willing to pay over $370 per pound to save 7lbs? I am not, I would buy the CTS-V claipers and look at 2-piece racing brake rotors for a light weight option unless there is some design deature in the stoptech calipers that adds to its worth.
The latest from Amazon is $1014 plus pads (yellow kit) including Goodridge lines, so it's about $1200 as the whole kit. It seems the prices have increased in a mere few days(!!).

I just checked out Racing Brakes:
http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...1-F-p/2160.htm

The weight is listed as 23.5 lbs. So with this upgrade, your rotating mass would be less than stock SS, and your overall would probably be about the same (since the caliper is heavier). Certainly better than the stock ZL1 rotors at 27.5 lbs, but it's incredibly pricey:
MSRP (pair): $1,470.58
Sale Price (pair): $1,323.52 (+$~45 shipping) = 1368.52

If you replace the OEM 2-piece with these, the total comes to 1200 - 410 +1368.52 = $2158.52.

And did I mention the cost of ring replacements? They are $766.22/pair; a lot more than $480/pair for Wilwoods and $440/pair I can find for StopTechs.

From my build thread:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=58
Quote:
Brake systems weight analysis:
I got StopTech weights directly from them:
ST-60 Caliper w/ Typical Bracket & Pads
Caliper: 34/36/38x32 8.786
Pads: 63-400-0060 (2 Pads) 2.884
Bracket: 36-330-8615 1.398
Total 13.068 lbs

380x32mm AeroRotor w/ Typical Hat & Hardware 17.450
Typical 380mm Hat & Hardware 3.750
Total 21.200
Grand total for this 15" system is 34.268 lbs.

In comparison, stock caliper is about 12 lbs with pads. However, stock rotor is 25.15 lbs. The total is about 37.15 lbs.

I do not know the weight of stock CTS-V caliper, but it's substantially bigger than the stock. My guess would be at least about 14 lbs. The two piece ZL1 rotors are about 27.5 lbs, bringing the r total to about 41.5 lbs.

So there you have it, the monster 15" StopTech system is only marginally lighter than the stock system, yet it's almost 7.5 lbs per wheel lighter than the comparable OEM (CTS-V) 15" system. CTS-V brakes cost so much less, though, so I might still pull the trigger one day Wilwoods weigh similar to StopTechs, but only with 14.25" diameter.
So, let's recap options in order of weight:
  • StopTech 15" $2600 shipped, 21.2 lbs rotating, 34.26 lbs total mass.
  • Wilwood 14.25" $1700 shipped, ~21.5 lbs rotating, ~35 lbs total mass.
  • Stock SS 14" Free, 25.15 rotating, 37.15 lbs total mass.
  • CTS-V w/ Racing Brake 14.6" $2158 shipped, 23.5 lbs rotating, 37.5 lbs total mass.
  • CTS-V w/ZL1 rotors $1200 shipped, 27.5 lbs rotating, 41.5 lbs total mass.

So there you have it. For street, I know I'd stay stock unless I'm also a person who is into air suspension, 24" wheels, etc., and have a huge gap to fill.

For track, I CANNOT DECIDE! Wilwoods now come with the new much stiffer Aero6 calipers (that are also used on Carbon-ceramic 15" brake kit they have for Mustangs), but I owned ST60/380mm kit before on Z06, and loved it. I do have Wilwoods on my Miata track car, and they work well, but needed a bit of tinkering to install. CTS-V brakes only makes sense without the Racing Bake upgrade in my opinion, since with that upgrade, I should much rather get the StopTechs.

I'm sure you guys think I am against CTS-V upgrade; I'm not, but at the same time, I don't think it's a no-brainer. We make a huge fuss about weight savings of 2-3 lbs with the 1LE wheels over 30-31 lbs stock SS wheels. In the same manner, GM brags about how lighter wheels improve the handling for the Z/28 (and Z/28 owners report the wheels are about 26-27 lbs, but lower diameter also helps with rotational inertia).

When it comes to brakes, it is a bit less important since the location is closer to center, so rotational resistance to acceleration will be less, but it is still unsprung mass, half of which is rotational.

In my opinion, a perfect build for my car would be Z/28 suspension kit (which I bought) with lighter-than-Z/28 19x11 wheels (Forgestars at 24 lbs) and a lighter BBK (which I cannot decide) than stock to offset the weight advantage Z/28 has with carbon-ceramic brakes, so the DSSV struts I just got would run optimal, within the unsprung weight range they are designed and tuned for.
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Last edited by X25; 10-08-2014 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 10-08-2014, 03:39 PM   #278
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I have the CTSV with stock pads (Ferrodo 1000) which are the same as the SS pads. Ive noticed that they are much more aggressive. I'm usually driving into the corners 2-300 feet further and pulling about -1.1g on 285 supercar tires. It's been consistently worth a couple seconds on my lap time. That's huge! BTW, you will not notice the weight difference and you will out brake almost every car on track.

They are consistent, they manage heat much better than the 4 piston, and have more stopping power than the tires can handle. You will easily get into the ABS. Yes, with stock pads you will eventually get a mildly hard pedal from exceeding the heat capabilities pads, but even with that issue they stop better than the SS.

Bottom line... 4 piston with race pads will be marginally better than stock 6 pistons, but the 6 piston with a race pad... forget about it. The CTSV with stock pads are a perfect and cheap upgrade if you don't want to switch back and forth between stock and race pads. Heck, the upgrade alone is just a little overt the cost of a set of race pads.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:18 PM   #279
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Just a head's up, they are on sale:
Fronts are $265 with premium pads (semi-metallic)
Rears are $255 with premium pads
http://brakeperformance.com/brake-ro...ake-Rotors.php

I just have no idea if the free "standard" or $40 "premium" pads are any good...
Just bought them, $480 shipped for all 4 corners (dimpled & slotted) with the premium pads. They will be installed next weekend along with stainless steel lines & Motul RBF600 brake fluid. I will order a set of Hawk HPS pads just in case the premium pads are no good.

My thought process behind the upgrade is that the Camaro is a big, heavy car and needs all the help it can get when stopping. I drive the car aggressively, and love taking it to the mountains.

My stock brakes are about shot, so the only additional cost to do this is the cost of the calipers ($465 with pin kit & bolts). I was going to do the brake fluid and stainless lines anyways and the larger front rotors were pretty close to the same cost as the stock SS size. I have to replace the pads at a minimum and would be doing the Hawk HPS's if the rotors didn't come with pads.

To me, this felt like a no-brainer. The only thing I was unsure of was whether I was going to keep Bee, but I won't be doing anything until the 2016's are released and even then it's uncertain I would trade for one of those.

For everything (rotors, calipers, pads, lines, fluid, & hardware), I am at $1165. $950 if you don't count the brake lines & fluid.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:31 PM   #280
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The price I had was with ZL1 rotors and no brake lines which is where I got the $1,017. I forgot I had those rotors included and I already have lines.

Thanks for posting the weights, that makes it very clear to compare the different setups.
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