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Tuning / Diagnostics -- engine and transmission Tune and diagnostics for engines and auto transmission.

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Old 02-20-2014, 08:27 PM   #1
2012LS3VERT
 
Drives: 2012 2SSRS Vert, Black w/M6
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 146
My PCMofNC experience so far (am I being unrealistic?)...

So I decided to have PCMofNC remote tune my car after my maggie install, as I was uncomfortable tuning a supercharged car by myself. I am not new to tuning, but have never tuned a car from scratch, and was kind of in a hurry to get my car back on the road. So I had purchased my HPtuners from them, along with a few other odds and ends like my 3.6 maggie pulley. I finally got the blower installed over the weekend. So Monday afternoon I filled out my order sheet and paid for the remote tune. I also indicated on the phone that I was looking to get my car running (correctly) by friday afternoon, as I needed to make a 3 hour trip to Mobile. I was told to expect a typical 1 day turnaround. I received the tune file Wednesday afternoon (almost 48 hours later) I was like "ok, I can datalog the car tonight, submit it Wednesday night, have it tweaked by thursday evening, datalog it that night, then have another revision by Friday afternoon to be ready to go." That would be a 24 hour turn around on revisions which should be faster than the inital tune, right? My setup isnt anything complicated IMO. Here it goes:

Maggie TVS2300 with 3.6 pulley, with a ported lower manifold.
CAI intake.
Gutted cats.
SW retro catback.
ADM zl1 pump/FPCM combo.
ZR1 map sensor and spark plugs.

I provided all this info on the order sheet. There was actually two placed to indicate on the order sheet that I deleted my cats, one for rear O2 delete and a place to indicate if I had no cats, hi flows, or stock cats. I indicated that I had the ZL1 pump/FPCM, and needed the info entered for such. I also called back and indicated I had the ZR1 map, as I forgot to indicate it on the sheet. Then I loaded the tune.

Here's how that went: check engine light immediately, but that's nothing unusual. Service stabilitrak light. Ok, first car with stabilitrak, maybe that's normal. So I log the car for 20 minutes, and it runs horrible. I think it's slower than before the blower. Then I go through the tune file. I found the following: rear O2s weren't deleted, the Cat overtemp protection was still on, and the info for the FPCM wasn't entered. The first two were the causes of most of the DTCs. I also saw that the DCFO was still on, I didn't indicate that I wanted it off, but everything i've read anywhere said that it should be turned of for logging, so it doesn't throw the log off. That night, I sent the logs to PCMofNC, and in the spirit of full disclosure, here's the email I sent:

"See attached for first and second datalog. Also, please be advised that I am extremely unhappy with the initial tune. I reviewed the file after driving the car, which ran horrible. Issues:
1) Rear cats were not deleted in the tune. I got multiple CELs for the rear O2, none of the DTC were disabled for the rear O2s. (P0140,P0141,P0036)
2) Cat over temp protection was still enabled. No reason for it to be on with no cats, just dumping fuel.
3) I specified the above be deleted on my order sheet. Also, I specified that I installed an ADM ZL1 and FPCM combo on my car, and the data for such was also not entered into the tune.
I got two DTCs for Lean conditions, a P0171, and P0174. I am not suprised by those, as they are a tuning issue.
I got a P0300, engine misfire DTC also. I installed new ZR1 spark plugs during the install, so they are fresh and the wires are on correctly.
I stopped checking the data at that point. I was afraid that I would find more issues. I was expecting more attention to detail. I did not drive the car again, so to datalog with the wideband. Please adjust accordingly."

This is what I received back:

"Thanks we will have a look."


"Thank you!"

I sent that Wednesday night, and got the reply this morning. I basically indiated that I suspected someone just rushed through slapping the tune together, as they didn't even delete the O2s. I didn't even look to see if anything else was off other nthe PE ratio, it's not horrible, but that's not the part I wasn't worried about, I was more worried about the drivability (nearly impossible right now). I haven't heard anything since that e-mail.

In my company, if we mess up, we pretty much drop everything and fix it right away. I would have been ok with a "sorry we missed a couple of things, let's fix that real quick". Or at least a revision within 24 hours. Or something so that I can drive the car and log it again. Just something so that the tune process doesn't take two weeks. I've had remote tunes done before, and this is the most time it's ever taken, however, it's been a few years, and it was other companies.

Am I just being an urealistic @$$? Or am I justified in my views? Is two weeks (what I now expect it will take them to even get it close) normal? I don't know. I'm going crazy, as I have to take my wife's low-mileage leased car on a pretty long round trip including my business that I am handling while I am in Mobile.
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Old 02-20-2014, 08:44 PM   #2
RBL
 
Drives: 2010 camaro 2SS
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: WV
Posts: 291
That does not sound like how Alvin and Kelly do business at all. You need to pick up the phone and call kelly tomorrow.
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2010 LS3, TVS2300, Roto-Fab, OBX headers, ZL! fuel pump, cat delete, Dynomax VT exhaust. 574 rwhp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MULNBnW8mU
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:30 PM   #3
2012LS3VERT
 
Drives: 2012 2SSRS Vert, Black w/M6
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 146
That was Kelly's email reply, and I have dealt with her exclusively. Problem is I've been working 10 hour shifts on top of a power plant, hanging in a safety harness, slinging wrenches and grinders. Not conducive for phone conversation. On previous occasions, everything was pleasant and went well. Tune, not so much. One thing I did forget, after receiving my I inital tune, I asked again what expected turn around time for adjustments would be, and was told "sometimes a few hours , sometimes 1-2 days, depending on how many dyno tunes we have to do those days. We will of course get it out as soon as possible".
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:08 AM   #4
BFASTNOTLAST
 
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Drives: 2012 SS
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Huntersville NC
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012LS3VERT View Post
So I decided to have PCMofNC remote tune my car after my maggie install, as I was uncomfortable tuning a supercharged car by myself. I am not new to tuning, but have never tuned a car from scratch, and was kind of in a hurry to get my car back on the road. So I had purchased my HPtuners from them, along with a few other odds and ends like my 3.6 maggie pulley. I finally got the blower installed over the weekend. So Monday afternoon I filled out my order sheet and paid for the remote tune. I also indicated on the phone that I was looking to get my car running (correctly) by friday afternoon, as I needed to make a 3 hour trip to Mobile. I was told to expect a typical 1 day turnaround. I received the tune file Wednesday afternoon (almost 48 hours later) I was like "ok, I can datalog the car tonight, submit it Wednesday night, have it tweaked by thursday evening, datalog it that night, then have another revision by Friday afternoon to be ready to go." That would be a 24 hour turn around on revisions which should be faster than the inital tune, right? My setup isnt anything complicated IMO. Here it goes:

Maggie TVS2300 with 3.6 pulley, with a ported lower manifold.
CAI intake.
Gutted cats.
SW retro catback.
ADM zl1 pump/FPCM combo.
ZR1 map sensor and spark plugs.

I provided all this info on the order sheet. There was actually two placed to indicate on the order sheet that I deleted my cats, one for rear O2 delete and a place to indicate if I had no cats, hi flows, or stock cats. I indicated that I had the ZL1 pump/FPCM, and needed the info entered for such. I also called back and indicated I had the ZR1 map, as I forgot to indicate it on the sheet. Then I loaded the tune.

Here's how that went: check engine light immediately, but that's nothing unusual. Service stabilitrak light. Ok, first car with stabilitrak, maybe that's normal. So I log the car for 20 minutes, and it runs horrible. I think it's slower than before the blower. Then I go through the tune file. I found the following: rear O2s weren't deleted, the Cat overtemp protection was still on, and the info for the FPCM wasn't entered. The first two were the causes of most of the DTCs. I also saw that the DCFO was still on, I didn't indicate that I wanted it off, but everything i've read anywhere said that it should be turned of for logging, so it doesn't throw the log off. That night, I sent the logs to PCMofNC, and in the spirit of full disclosure, here's the email I sent:

"See attached for first and second datalog. Also, please be advised that I am extremely unhappy with the initial tune. I reviewed the file after driving the car, which ran horrible. Issues:
1) Rear cats were not deleted in the tune. I got multiple CELs for the rear O2, none of the DTC were disabled for the rear O2s. (P0140,P0141,P0036)
2) Cat over temp protection was still enabled. No reason for it to be on with no cats, just dumping fuel.
3) I specified the above be deleted on my order sheet. Also, I specified that I installed an ADM ZL1 and FPCM combo on my car, and the data for such was also not entered into the tune.
I got two DTCs for Lean conditions, a P0171, and P0174. I am not suprised by those, as they are a tuning issue.
I got a P0300, engine misfire DTC also. I installed new ZR1 spark plugs during the install, so they are fresh and the wires are on correctly.
I stopped checking the data at that point. I was afraid that I would find more issues. I was expecting more attention to detail. I did not drive the car again, so to datalog with the wideband. Please adjust accordingly."

This is what I received back:

"Thanks we will have a look."


"Thank you!"

I sent that Wednesday night, and got the reply this morning. I basically indiated that I suspected someone just rushed through slapping the tune together, as they didn't even delete the O2s. I didn't even look to see if anything else was off other nthe PE ratio, it's not horrible, but that's not the part I wasn't worried about, I was more worried about the drivability (nearly impossible right now). I haven't heard anything since that e-mail.

In my company, if we mess up, we pretty much drop everything and fix it right away. I would have been ok with a "sorry we missed a couple of things, let's fix that real quick". Or at least a revision within 24 hours. Or something so that I can drive the car and log it again. Just something so that the tune process doesn't take two weeks. I've had remote tunes done before, and this is the most time it's ever taken, however, it's been a few years, and it was other companies.

Am I just being an urealistic @$$? Or am I justified in my views? Is two weeks (what I now expect it will take them to even get it close) normal? I don't know. I'm going crazy, as I have to take my wife's low-mileage leased car on a pretty long round trip including my business that I am handling while I am in Mobile.

. HMMMM.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:17 AM   #5
2012LS3VERT
 
Drives: 2012 2SSRS Vert, Black w/M6
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBL View Post
That does not sound like how Alvin and Kelly do business at all. You need to pick up the phone and call kelly tomorrow.
I called Kelly, and had to leave a message a couple hours ago. I restated my frustration, and haven't gotten a call back or e-mail.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:02 PM   #6
jbrown13
 
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Drives: 2011 Camaro SS L99
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Perry, GA
Posts: 398
Man, I feel your pain. I had a similar experience last year with a well known LS only shop here in GA. My initial tune was crap, and I got slow walked on getting it fixed. I finally threw up my hands and found another tuner. Unfortunately, when some businesses get your money they go to bank with it and ignore the fact that you exist. Not the kind of business I would go back to.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:08 PM   #7
RBL
 
Drives: 2010 camaro 2SS
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: WV
Posts: 291
I dont know man, they have always treated me great. I hope they get you fixed up soon.
__________________
www.pcmofnc.com

2010 LS3, TVS2300, Roto-Fab, OBX headers, ZL! fuel pump, cat delete, Dynomax VT exhaust. 574 rwhp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MULNBnW8mU
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:53 PM   #8
2012LS3VERT
 
Drives: 2012 2SSRS Vert, Black w/M6
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 146
Well, I got the e-mail a little while ago with the revised tune, i'll see how that goes. Kelly gave me the reasoning for each of the things I listed that weren't done, as each wasn't something they normally do. I can understand that, but I've never seen or been shown those things, so all I wanted to know was why. I'm very sensitive how my modification money is spent, as it is my VA disability money that I had to get shot and blown up for. I apologized for possibly taking it over the top, but I still have to see how the car runs. I got the tune so late that I won't be able to load it in the car before I go out of town, and wouldn't trust it to just load it and hop in the car and leave. Therefore I am taking my wife's low-mileage leased car on the trip. I was more disappointed in the timeline than in the tune file itself. If everything was done in a timely manner, I think I would be taking my car, and not risking going over my wife's allotted mileage before we turn the car in. If it was too busy at their shop, I would have preferred honesty and to be told that I should maybe try someone else for faster turnaround. I got the feeling that dyno tunes received priority, like I didn't pay for my tune just like the guys getting their car on the dyno. I dunno. I feel better, but I'll still have to se where it goes after I load the tune.
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