minimum hp gains from gmpp headers/A.I./catback?

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

The aftermarket loves to throw around the Mag Moss Act but the long and short of it is that you will have to hire a lawyer which will cost you more time and money to fight then if you just pay for the repair.

I have been through this more times then I can count and BELIEVE me they will have the upper hand on you. They don't have to prove anything. They will simply call in the "regional rep" who will look at the car, see that you have an intake on there and not allow the head gasket blow repair to happen (or whatever is the issue). They will tell you that you have altered the specs and the internal performance of the engine to the point that it caused the issue to happen. END OF STORY. That is all they need, the word of a regional rep is enough to prove that they aren't going to cover it. Then if you want to fight you need a lawyer which will cost thousands.

So although this law is out there, it rarely works. Now if they claim your radio broke b/c of an intake this law will work. Otherwise you will be sol.

Interesting. I've had several friends go through this with their sport bikes, I can't think of a single one that lost and none had to get a lawyer. One's engine even went POP and it still got it covered after going through proper channels. All were pretty heavily modded with exhaust, tuning modules, air filters, etc.

[CWI]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

I think you guys are going to be pretty dissapointed with these bolt ons without a proper tune of the ecu. .

A tune will probably net a better gain than the shorties. The stock exhaust bolts up to them. You still have the same diameter close to the engine. How can there be a gain?

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Mblock66

I think you guys are going to be pretty dissapointed with these bolt ons without a proper tune of the ecu.

Gains WILL be minimal.

define minimal. 5ph? 10hp? 15? 35? while the gains will be improved upon by a tune, freeing/smoothing up the intake air will give you gains out the door. exhaust becomes tricky as you can mess up the backpressure with the motor and hurt your performance over helping it. but the MAF's that GM uses are some of the best. the only thing with a CAI that could hurt is if the diameter of the tubing is not setup properly and impedes the flow of air rather than helps it, which would lead to lost power.

which brings me to a question... you say you lost 7 hp on a subaru, do you have the 3 dyno sheets from stock, CAI, tuned to show? I dont doubt you in the least that you lost hp, but I would like to see the overall power curve rather than just peak numbers. also did it lower your torque values at all? did it bump the power band up or down in the rpm range at all? jw.

Originally Posted by Rekt

The only GMPP part I might buy would be the hot cam. Nothing else.

Custom cam.... in my BLACK edition

Originally Posted by gtahvit

^that and maybe the cai....

That's what I'm thinking....

Custom CAI.... in my BLACK edition...lol

Originally Posted by CWIweldace

A tune will probably net a better gain than the shorties. The stock exhaust bolts up to them. You still have the same diameter close to the engine. How can there be a gain?

you have the same diameter, but the angles of the primaries and the way they flow will complement each other more than stock manifolds. that being said, shorties are nothing more than performance manifolds. liken them to a minor port job on your heads. they are slightly less restrictive, not much else.




as stated before, a tune will net you overall better performance over just bolting on things and going from there. a tune will complement any modification done, but idk about the rest of you, but i dont have the money to be going to get a dyno tune every time I put a bolt-on modification onto my car. that being said, bolt-on parts are to be just that, bolt-on. nothing more, nothing less. they will net you a gain, and if you do a CAI and exhaust, they will complement each other. then when you get a few more little things done, do a full tune and maximize your performance gains.

[fuffl]

Im a big fan of the GMPP Hot Cam as well, but I have one questsion.

GM=wont tune your car
Cam install=tune needed
Can I still get the dealer to install a cam? If so, how does the car get tuned properly without driving it untuned to a dyno?

[Speed74SS]

I was reading on the corvette forums and it looks like for minimal additions like the cat back, headers & Intake - the DiabloSport would be a good option when they come out with one for the camaro. Anyone have any comments on the diablo? I am trying to research some tuners.

[Wm Holden]

The Corvette guys are brain dead..be careful.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by fuffl

Im a big fan of the GMPP Hot Cam as well, but I have one questsion.

GM=wont tune your car
Cam install=tune needed
Can I still get the dealer to install a cam? If so, how does the car get tuned properly without driving it untuned to a dyno?

well, usually hot cams are just bumped up versions of their stock counterparts. ive got a lot of friends who have installed the LT4 hotcam in their LT1s and the LS hotcam in their LS1's and have never been tuned and they never have a problem.

now, will they see the max gains from the cam without a tune? no. will they be fine running the hot cam without a tune? yes.

While a tune is recommended, with a hot cam it isnt as much of a necessity as a bigger cam is. however, you should be able to contact any place that has tuned LS3 vettes and order a mail-order tune and they should be able to hook you up.

Originally Posted by Wm Holden

The Corvette guys are brain dead..be careful.

if that aint the truth.... its mainly cus most of them dont ever work on their own cars...lol

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by fuffl

Im a big fan of the GMPP Hot Cam as well, but I have one questsion.

GM=wont tune your car
Cam install=tune needed
Can I still get the dealer to install a cam? If so, how does the car get tuned properly without driving it untuned to a dyno?

A buddy of mine installed a hopped up cam in his 02 Z06 and it wouldn't idle correctly until tuned. It ran good enough to get it to the tuner, but it definitely had to be tuned. I'm not sure which cam he installed.

Having said that, he did Headers, cam, tune on his 02 Z06 and got 455 to the wheels on the dyno. He's now sold the 02 and purchased an 08 Z06 and says he'll never again do a cam.

[BowtieGuy]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

A buddy of mine installed a hopped up cam in his 02 Z06 and it wouldn't idle correctly until tuned. It ran good enough to get it to the tuner, but it definitely had to be tuned. I'm not sure which cam he installed.

Having said that, he did Headers, cam, tune on his 02 Z06 and got 455 to the wheels on the dyno. He's now sold the 02 and purchased an 08 Z06 and says he'll never again do a cam.

If he had picked the right cam for his combination that never would have happened. No offense, but he probably just picked the biggest one he could find for his car, most people do. It's one of the biggest mistakes in the world of modifications.

[Evotion]

Originally Posted by BowtieGuy

If he had picked the right cam for his combination that never would have happened. No offense, but he probably just picked the biggest one he could find for his car, most people do. It's one of the biggest mistakes in the world of modifications.

+1

A mistake that I have sadly made once.... and only once.

[s.norman]

i don't know..i think i will leave it stock now and just get a good tune. this is confusing to me

[PsyDoc]

As I understand it, when you do any type of mod...even a CAI, a tune will give you the most performance gains out of the mod. Unfortunately, the tune is only temporary and any disruption in power source (e.g., battery dies) will lead to the ECU defaulting back to the stock settings. Doing engine performance mods on a car today is not as simple as it was pre-ECU days.

[matt55]

Bolting on parts with no tune is not the best idea in the world .

"SOME" bolts ons are made to work with stock stuff (I think *some* K&N intakes are desinged like this) .

When you a take a intake + cam + headers or what every parts with no tune to the track(or street) an get blasted by a stock car(or less moded) maybe you understand then .
Ive been there and done it before , both sides dumb mods and smart mods with tune .
MY 96 Z/28 with Intake/BBK T.B./Flowmaster/3.73's/ = same ET/MPH as a STOCK = not smart $ spent .

My car now has Less than $750 in it and made 5HP more than a same car with OVER $3000 in his car , I felt bad for the guy .
Something to think about ...

[Dom]

Originally Posted by PsyDoc

As I understand it, when you do any type of mod...even a CAI, a tune will give you the most performance gains out of the mod. Unfortunately, the tune is only temporary and any disruption in power source (e.g., battery dies) will lead to the ECU defaulting back to the stock settings. Doing engine performance mods on a car today is not as simple as it was pre-ECU days.

Tune is permanent. There is no default program. People underestimate the power of a tune even on a stock car. GM doesn't give it performance tune. It comes with a reliability tune.

I would definitely re-tune after every mod. Why wouldn't you? Connect a tuner, make some WOT runs, record, check O2s and so on. It's not that hard. Every car reacts differently.