02-14-2011, 08:52 PM | #1 |
Maggie Pulley Size with Stock Motor + LT Headers?
I just recently bought some ARH long tube headers and had them installed by the shop that did my Maggie install and tuning. They tuned it and it runs great, but I'm just wondering if the pulley is too small resulting in too much boost? The pulley is a 3.2 and so far I've seen 11psi on my gauge. From everything that I know and have read, this seems pretty high. They told me after they tuned it that they weren't able to get much timing out. I think 6 degrees and that's it.
The car runs and sounds great, but I am just curious if I'm asking for trouble here? I recently installed an Aeroforce Interceptor gauge and one of the parameters I have set is "Knock Retard". I noticed today when I put my foot in it, not even all the way, that it starts showing that it's retarding the timing. Is that normal? I know nothing about actual tuning and how the computer works that way so pardon my ignorance if this is something normal. I'm just wondering if I would get more reliability and possibly better performance by going to a 3.4 pulley and getting more timing out of it during tuning? Any help or opinions would be greatly appreciated. The shop I used is incredibly reputable and I feel confident he wouldn't do something that would be detrimental to my engine, but I'd just like to get some feedback from those that have similar set ups and experience. Thanks! -Chris
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Magnacharger TVS2300 / Roto-Fab CAI / ACT Twin-disc clutch + flywheel / Livernois Motorsports Duel Fuel Pump / Modified stock engine cover / ARH 1-7/8 Long Tube Headers + High Flow cats / Magnaflow 3" Cat-back / Eibach Springs / Pfadt Sway Bars / Stillen slotted/drilled rotors, hard lines and Hawk pads / Barton Short-Shifter / CBD Spoiler / GM Heritage Grill / Forgestar F14 20x11/20x9 Matte Black / Nitto NT05 Tires 565WHP/570TQ
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02-14-2011, 09:54 PM | #2 |
First of all, I`m no expert either. I will share with you what the guys at MTI told me, and what little knowledge I have after running my own car for about a year now. I asked about reliability and boost numbers. They told me that they had no problem in testing untill boost got to 11 PSI. They said that at that point they broke a piston. I`m sure they were thrashing the thing. Anyway, I know that you are making a lot of power and I didn`t see a aftermarket cam listed in what you`re running. I`m making 533 hp and I`m running a fairly aggressive cam package and the 3.6" pulley with 7 psi of boost. They said I could run the balls of it and I wouldn`t have a problem, and I have. No problem so far. I am not the knowledgeable expert here at all but, I saw that no one had responded yet and thought I would pass on what little I do know. Good luck with it, and I`m sure the guys on here will have so real nuts and bolts numbers for you to crunch pretty quick.
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02-14-2011, 09:54 PM | #3 | |
Drives: S/C 2SS/RS Camaro-6M-VicRed Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alfie (Mariano) lives in Shelby Twp, Metro-Detroit
Posts: 1,119
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I have an LS3 with 1-7/8" headers, high flo-cats and a CAI. My tuner and Magnasun recommended that I drop down one size on the pulley to compensate for the slight loss in boost from the headers. As you know the kit includes a 3.8" pulley, so we installed a 3.6" and that provided around 7lbs boost. I asked for a safe and conservative tune and in doing so, the car pulled 561 RWHP. I should add that I do not have any fuel delivery upgrade (BAP). I am hesitant to comment on your specific setup because I am not an expert; I only have an opinion and from what I have seen and read, I would be a little leery with 11 lbs of boost. You are going to get a lot of opinions here and I don't doubt that some of it will be conflicting, albeit well meaning. There are some knowledgeable tuners that lurk around this forum, i.e., Ted Jannetty. You would be wise heed their advice and ignore the rest. Alfie
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Last edited by alfie43; 02-14-2011 at 10:20 PM. |
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02-14-2011, 10:00 PM | #4 |
Blessed
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
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3.2 is way too much boost without a BAP or dual pump.
My guess is it's running out of fuel and casuing it to detonate, and that's the knock/timing pull you you are seeing. On your setup I'd not go beyond a 3.6 until you can meet the fuel demands. I don't know if your aeroforce guage can display fuel pressure but I'd make sure you aren't seeing a drop in fuel pressure first. I'm thinking you are playing with fire if you are running the stock fuel system.
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Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals." |
02-14-2011, 10:42 PM | #5 | |
Thank you all for your replies. I really appreciate it. I honestly think the only reason that the shop put that small of a pulley on was because maybe that was all they had. I don't know, but that was the impression I got at the time.
Quote:
Thank you. I'm thinking that I'm already going to email the shop and get something done about this.
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Magnacharger TVS2300 / Roto-Fab CAI / ACT Twin-disc clutch + flywheel / Livernois Motorsports Duel Fuel Pump / Modified stock engine cover / ARH 1-7/8 Long Tube Headers + High Flow cats / Magnaflow 3" Cat-back / Eibach Springs / Pfadt Sway Bars / Stillen slotted/drilled rotors, hard lines and Hawk pads / Barton Short-Shifter / CBD Spoiler / GM Heritage Grill / Forgestar F14 20x11/20x9 Matte Black / Nitto NT05 Tires 565WHP/570TQ
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02-15-2011, 08:42 AM | #6 | |
Blessed
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
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I'm sure if they are a good shop they'll get you sorted out. I'd just be careful of going WOT in 5th and 6th near redline... obviously you'll be going real fast at that point so I can't imagine you do that very often anyway. And I'd make sure not to go WOT at very low RMP < 3k when it too high of a gear. always downshift in other words. Other than that I'm guessing you are good to go. The only other problem may be your exhaust hitting the tunnel brace. I had this happen to mine and it was triggering the knock sensor and pulling like 14 degrees of timing... so check to make sure there are no exhaust rattles.
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Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals." |
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02-15-2011, 09:05 AM | #7 |
Psssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Drives: under contruction Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Marysville, Ohio
Posts: 12,996
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I have LT headers, an MSD BAP, and the 3.6" pulley. It makes between 7 and 8 lbs of boost (depending on rpm). My car is an L99 and it makes right at 500 rwhp.
I am adding a cam and stall in a couple of weeks. My biggest concern is fuel delivery. The tuner will evaluate the duty cycles of the injectors and how hard the BAP is working at that point and advise me as to whether I need to upgrade my injectors and go with a dual fuel pump system. My shop knows my top priorities are safety and reliability. Getting enough fuel to the motor is essential in a supercharged car. |
02-15-2011, 09:57 AM | #8 | |
Drives: 2010 2ss iom Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Manteca, CA
Posts: 65
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Timing vs boost
Quote:
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02-15-2011, 09:59 AM | #9 | |
Blessed
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
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Quote:
Go with the experts. Forums are good for giving you things to consider but the professionals are the ones who are gonna make it right.
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Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals." |
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02-15-2011, 10:28 AM | #10 |
I totally agree 100%. I'm not a tuner and I did my homework as well before deciding on which shop for my supercharger and the header install and tune. The shop I chose is a very reputable shop and machine shop with decades of experience. It's just that when I arrived for the header install, he had forgotten that I had a Magnacharger (that they installed/tuned) and I think his pulley choices were limited because he hadn't anticipated doing a pulley change. That is the impression that I got when I was there and it seemed like they made it work with what they had.
I wouldn't normally question a tuner, especially someone with that many years of experience. However, when you get that gut feeling and you're consistently seeing 11lbs. of boost, it made me question it enough to at least ask opinions on here. There are a lot of reputable tuners on here as well as individuals with identical setups as mine. I'm not going to base any concrete decisions off of anything that any one person says on here, but I will collectively take the feedback and opinions and approach my shop or another to reevaluate what was done on my car. I drive my car fairly easy most of the time, but for those times that I drive it really hard, I don't want to have my motor grenade.
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Magnacharger TVS2300 / Roto-Fab CAI / ACT Twin-disc clutch + flywheel / Livernois Motorsports Duel Fuel Pump / Modified stock engine cover / ARH 1-7/8 Long Tube Headers + High Flow cats / Magnaflow 3" Cat-back / Eibach Springs / Pfadt Sway Bars / Stillen slotted/drilled rotors, hard lines and Hawk pads / Barton Short-Shifter / CBD Spoiler / GM Heritage Grill / Forgestar F14 20x11/20x9 Matte Black / Nitto NT05 Tires 565WHP/570TQ
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02-15-2011, 12:49 PM | #11 |
Drives: 2010 SS M6 2016 2SS A8 Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Utah
Posts: 553
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I think your definately playing with fire using the 3.2 pulley. I would switch to the 3.4 or 3.6 until you get your fuel system upgraded.
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TVS 2300 721RWHP 686RWTQ
Built by Me Suspension done by JDP Tune done by JRE |
02-15-2011, 01:04 PM | #12 |
Psssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Drives: under contruction Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Marysville, Ohio
Posts: 12,996
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Not to knock any tuner's knowledge, but I think some shops just assume you want all the hp they can squeeze out of it with your current configuration. "More bang for your buck" so to speak. It is your car and it can't hurt to ask questions about it and tell them safety and reliability are your top priorities.
I know my shop treats my car differently than some other customers' cars because they know I'm not just after the fastest time slip. |
02-15-2011, 01:09 PM | #13 |
Thanks guys!
I spoke with the shop this morning and we're getting another pulley and retuning in a few weeks. Probably 3.4 to bring me to about 8psi, which is what it was at before the headers. I already ordered a dual-pump through Stillen and am having them install it. It should arrive in a few weeks and once it is I'm going back to the other shop to have the pulley installed and the car re-tuned. Thank you everyone for your valuable input and sharing with me your setups and experiences. I really appreciate it.
__________________
Magnacharger TVS2300 / Roto-Fab CAI / ACT Twin-disc clutch + flywheel / Livernois Motorsports Duel Fuel Pump / Modified stock engine cover / ARH 1-7/8 Long Tube Headers + High Flow cats / Magnaflow 3" Cat-back / Eibach Springs / Pfadt Sway Bars / Stillen slotted/drilled rotors, hard lines and Hawk pads / Barton Short-Shifter / CBD Spoiler / GM Heritage Grill / Forgestar F14 20x11/20x9 Matte Black / Nitto NT05 Tires 565WHP/570TQ
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02-15-2011, 01:12 PM | #14 | |
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Magnacharger TVS2300 / Roto-Fab CAI / ACT Twin-disc clutch + flywheel / Livernois Motorsports Duel Fuel Pump / Modified stock engine cover / ARH 1-7/8 Long Tube Headers + High Flow cats / Magnaflow 3" Cat-back / Eibach Springs / Pfadt Sway Bars / Stillen slotted/drilled rotors, hard lines and Hawk pads / Barton Short-Shifter / CBD Spoiler / GM Heritage Grill / Forgestar F14 20x11/20x9 Matte Black / Nitto NT05 Tires 565WHP/570TQ
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