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View Poll Results: Do you think the UAW is taking the correct action? | |||
Hell Yes! Keep U.S. Jobs in the U.S. | 5 | 16.67% | |
Hell No! Stop screwing GM and get back to work! | 7 | 23.33% | |
Just build my damn Camaro. | 18 | 60.00% | |
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
09-24-2007, 05:38 PM | #1 |
Drives: MINI Cooper S Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 284
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Do you agree with the UAW?
I thought I little vote might be nice... support your local folks, or bash the damn Unionites.
Let's here it folks! ~LSx |
09-24-2007, 05:49 PM | #2 |
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand the choices.
Are you saying that if the UAW didn't strike, GM would be outsourcing jobs to other countries? As it stands, I don't have enough information on the contracts or working conditions at GM plants, so as I said in another post: I hope everything works out for the best for both sides, and I just want my damn camaro. |
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09-24-2007, 05:57 PM | #3 |
Drives: MINI Cooper S Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 284
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The UAW walked out because the wanted a guarantee that G.M. wouldn't outsource car production. Essentially they wanted GM to promise them job security... that's why they walked out.
I don't know of ANYONE who has a guarantee that their company won't outsource their job... its how business works these days (for better or for worse). I think it will be a tough thing to negotiate, so I'm not holding my breath until the UAW comes back to the table... it could be a while. ~LSx |
09-24-2007, 06:15 PM | #4 | |
I drank what?
Drives: DANGEROUSLY Join Date: May 2007
Location: check your back seat...
Posts: 416
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I really don't even know why GM would even consider doing something like that. I'd have to know more b4 i cast my vote, otherwise I'd go for the 3rd option. |
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09-24-2007, 06:39 PM | #5 | |
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I definitely think that we should keep as many jobs as we can in America (Canada's alright), but I don't think it's fair for them to expect GM to make any kind of promise about it. I'm sure it's not unprecedented as far as Unions go, but it's things like this that give them a bad name. They're on strike because they want GM to promise job security? Does that strike anyone else as odd? Going on strike and costing GM billions is only going to strengthen any thoughts GM had about outsourcing part of their workforce overseas. given all of that, my vote is a mixture of all three. Stop screwing Gm, go back to work while the jobs still are in the US, and build my damn Camaro! |
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09-24-2007, 07:51 PM | #6 |
Hard to understand when your not in the auto workers shoes. I man the picket lines this wednesday, thanks for your support.
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09-24-2007, 10:12 PM | #7 |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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It IS hard to understand unless your one of them...but for a moment, put yourself in their shoes.
Of some 300,000 UAW workers...there's 73,000 left....can you blame them for wanting some kind of job security? btw...I know my numbers are off... unkbd, What is it exactly the UAW and GM can't agree on? just VEBA? or is there more? |
09-25-2007, 02:25 AM | #8 | |
www.Camaro5store.com
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This is a real touchy subject.
1. I don't want to see jobs move overseas because GM has to shell out too much money to the US workers. We don't need to lose US JOBS. That's alread happening way too much. 2. I don't want to pay $1,700 extra on my vehicle just to pay the workers either. (this is how much the cost per vehicle would rise, right?) I'm on the fence on this one. Obviously, I don't want to shell out a lot more money than I have to. I mean...it's almost as though the workers on strike aren't forcing GM to pay...they are forcing the buyer to pay. I say this because GM won't take the full hit in their pocket. That doesn't make sense. They have to pass that down to the buyer. I don't want to get flamed for this...but working on a line pays only so much....period. That's how it goes w/ any job. There is pretty much a cap unless you swith a line of work. I'm sure there are MANY people who would be happy making what the workers are making now. I know...quality of the workers...I know. But, people can be trained and moved into those spots who will accept the money they make and be happy with it. I didn't go into the profession I'm in now to make $150,000 a year. That's just not feasible. If I wanted to make money like that, I would have chosen a different profession...plain and simple....and, I would have gotten a different degree in college. If the jobs taken are being paid at a particular rate and then GM wants to cut that pay rate, I'd say tough....that's what the person who took the job accepted and that's what they should stay at. When that person retires or leaves, the next person hired in could take the "new" pay rate. But, there is no way that GM would be able to get the higher paid person out of there...their rate and job would be guaranteed. Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone here and don't want to start an argument. I want the jobs here, but I also have so much I can afford for the Camaro I want. Quote:
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09-25-2007, 10:16 AM | #9 |
SoCal Race Team #13
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Meh, If you want job security do something no one else can do..
I have job security because I'm the best at my job ,out of 9 people. Not because I'm part of a union that will crush a companies nuts because of one issue or another. If you need a union to ensure that you have job security, you don't deserve to have that job because its best business practice to give it to some one else. PS - GM could and CAN find another 73k workers.. Just hit up Mexico.. offer to pay the fees for immigration and you will have Mexicans lined up to do the jobs.. and will do a better job, for less money and still be American jobs. Without the bitching.
__________________
A.K.A - Diarmadhi (old handle) - So much to do.. So little money
Owner : Fast-Stache Industries LLC |
09-25-2007, 10:29 AM | #10 | |
I drank what?
Drives: DANGEROUSLY Join Date: May 2007
Location: check your back seat...
Posts: 416
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Quote:
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09-25-2007, 10:44 AM | #11 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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I'm reading:The UAW doesn't desen't deserve job security, because they need a Union to ensure it... I'm also reading: Mexicans will do the job for cheaper... Okay......How is the fact that other nations have a lower standard of living, and therefore will accept lower wages the UAW's fault? Just asking Like I said before...Unions still have their place, in industries that aren't globally competitve: I.e. Police force, Teachers, etc...But untill the World market for labor levels out, and everybody needs to earn the same to live, most unions in the US are going to have a tough time competing...Now, once the above does happen - I am fully confident that Unions will sprout all over the place. |
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09-25-2007, 10:50 AM | #12 | |
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First, some things to keep in mind to prevent a few arguments: 1. yes times change and both company and union have to change to remain profitable. 2. The union has been more than willing to assist the company with concessions in the middle of the previous contract and at these talks.( more on this later) 3. The UAW is not interested in the demise of the auto manufacturers. The hole GM is in has been created by poor design decisions, inefficient manufacturing processes, and lack of reinvestment in the company(technology to streamline manufacturing processes) history In the last contract we(union members) maintained much of what we had, gained some (performance bonus in 1st year and a 3% raise in the 4th year of the 4yr contract.) lost some (retiree benefits, out sourcing some maintenance and construction jobs). There were more changes but those were the items that affected most people. Midway through the contract a smaller version of the veba for retirees was negotiated in order to help GM. We lost the 3% raise and every quarter a portion of our COLA was taken to help fund this VEBA. Currently I cannot speak to the "exact" items but will italicize what we have been told, that may or may not have been in the news media. The VEBA of course is a huge item. To this point the only thing holding that back is the percentage at which GM is going to fund the obligation they already have, which from tags article seems to have already been worked out. I assume the funding will be 65 to 70 cents on the dollar. I fully expect a two tier wage system to be implimentedwhich will save GM huge amounts of money given the fact that (at my plant) they have not replaced a single worker for any that have retired, or taken the "buyout" that was offered last year. Those jobs were filled by "summer help". If the two tier wage system is passed, gm can replace some of those jobs at a great cost savings. Reduction of wages which has been in the media to the tune of $5 an hour. You and I know that most people live on what they make, that being said, a reduction that large would place undue financial stress on a vast majority of the employees. Some say,"$5 phhhtt that is nothing." okay, take your pay and reduce it by 20% and you figure out how to pay your bills. Could it be done? Sure, but would you be happy about it and say okay and reduce your standard of living. How much longer would it take you to save for your new camaro if you could even afford to get it? On top of the wage reduction what they haven't told you is a loss of COLA and a health care(medical, dental, eye coverage) deductible. The out sourcing of jobs and construction projects is another topic near and dear to my heart in particular. This means that GM would increase the number of jobs typically done by union members. Typically these jobs have been given to people not making a "living wage" which is not good for the economy in general. The out sourcing of construction projects affects me directly by reducing the amount of overtime available to me, and allows the company to reduce the number of skilled trades people that they have to keep on the payroll(electricians, millwrights, pipefitters, carpenters etc.) These are good paying jobs, all of them. My contention is that if people are not making a living wage who does GM expect to sell their vehicles to. If you're living paycheck to paycheck/working two jobs, how in the hell can you afford a new vehicle? My point is strengthened by the current Real Estate troubles the country is experiencing. The job security issue which has been discussed in other threads, is (IMO) largely missunderstood. The UAW is not trying to hamstring GM into staying in the United States. We want assurances that important, good paying jobs will stay in the US. In other words, don't shut down operations in the United States in order to move them to another country. If you want to build cars in China, Mexico, Brazil, etc. go ahead but don't do it at the expense of the American Worker. Building vehicles in other countries only increases GMs bottom line. It doesn't benefit the consumer.....A Tahoe built in Mexico costs the same a one built in my plant. There is no discount on that vehicle even though everything associated with the production of that Mexican Tahoe with the exception of the parts is lower. So far those are the "large" issues that I and some others I work with have deduced as being sticking points. If you have read this whole post I thank you and hope that you have come away with a better understanding of what is going on here. Unions are important. I feel that if not for union negotiated good paying jobs, the standard of living in America would not be where it is now. |
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09-25-2007, 10:54 AM | #13 | |
I drank what?
Drives: DANGEROUSLY Join Date: May 2007
Location: check your back seat...
Posts: 416
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Quote:
This whole thing is a double edged sword. There's nothing wrong with paying your workers good for their time and efforts. I know I wouldn't want to go to work, sweating everyday just to come home with peanuts and a cup of rice. Big companies have a long history of stiffin' the little guy, making you work more for the same money, taking away benefits and pocketing the profits. If you think shipping a bunch of immigrants into the U.S. and handing them jobs that once belonged to the very people that help build this country is even a valid option... man you're a piece of work. |
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09-25-2007, 11:02 AM | #14 |
Does it come in BLACK?
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all this mexican talk is making me hungry
I'm pretty sure diarmadhi is just blowing off some stem when he made the mexican comment. Lord knows i don't want any of them building a car that i'm planning on owning!
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