Savini Wheels -Beware!

[The Stig]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to attack you Chris. I just feel like you are saying the vibration is no big deal and that we (using "we" as a collective here) need to suck it up and stop complaining.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

Well I heard from BFXAUTO this morning when I checked my e-mail. I would like to say I am shocked but in all honesty I am not surprised by the response.

I will cut and pasted what Nick at BFXAUTO wrote.

"John,

First off, I want to apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you and
I understand that there are things outside our control that can cause
frustration. I have stood behind you and done my best working with Savini
to get your wheels perfect.



I have spoken with the tech that mounted and balanced the wheels because I
wanted to know exactly how the process went, and this is what he said.

"The run out of the wheel was way *under* tolerance. The tires were indexed
to the wheel and road force balanced. The wheels took hardly any weight and
spun perfectly. These wheels balanced perfectly."



This is right in accord with the numbers that Savini sent from their run out
test:





These numbers indicate the amount of movement that the wheel makes when it
spins. This is reading that the most movement is .46 of 1mm. Less than
1/2mm of movement at the most.



At this time, Savini has done everything they can to get you perfect
wheels. Savini and I have done everything to make sure these wheels don't
vibrate, so the problem must reside elsewhere."



Well if these wheels are so perfect tehn why do they vibrate? Nick( BFXAUTO ) stated early on in this process that he took care of his customers, that he would make these wheels right etc......


You know it is real funny that in PQ's case they blamed the people who mounted the tires, they blamed his driving they blamed everything else. Since I alleviated all that by having them mount and balance the tires before I got them, they did not have anyone else to blame.....NOW they are balming the car.

How in the hell is it the cars fault? If there is any issues with my car, which I highly doubt, then the SAVINI WHEELS caused the issue.

So is Savini saying that their wheels will damage your car? Kinda looking reall funny that PQ is have issues on his car, MAYBE it IS the wheels causing the issues on his car.

BFXAUTO and Savini are in this together. Nick tried to play the good cop in this until now there is a point of no return because Savini has done all they say they can and they still vibrate, leaving Nick stuck with an unhappy customer who he is giving up on, turning his back on. Which make me wonder about BFXAuto as a vendor, person and as a man.


Nick told me that he would balance the wheels and make sure they were correct, but in the e-mail he said that he talked to the tech who balanced them. SO BFX does not really mount and balance wheels.

I guess this is just another case of a garage selling vendor who has an internet business and a phone booth.

I tell you this after these issuses I would be suspect of ANY vendor who pushed Savini wheels. The people are a bunch of rip off artist and con men. I never thought Nick would be on that boat but he has firmly sided with Savini on this and junped right in the middle of the boat with them.... with in tolerance my ass. If these wheels are smooth and vibration free then my ass is a sewing machine.

I sent Nick an e-mail, I am real sure he will respond quickly, yeah right. But we will see.

definition of perfect is lacking here...

Originally Posted by PQ

Just ask the shop or shops to write up an opinion for you. That's what I did. Not that it means anything but I felt that as long as I had a few outside, indepenent pros agree with me that I'd be covered. And I posted my videos here to be sure that it was not normal and indeed it wasn't. A little, yes. What I showed, no way in hell. Now, mine still have a little but admitedly, it's acceptable as far as Savninis tolerance and my shop concurs that it could and should be better, but that it's acceptable. Just not for the money we pay.

My issue is with the shitty paint. Which could have beena non-issue if I'd never had any problems at all with the wheels. Normally I'd call and send pics and ask them to either please have them redone or advise me somehow locally.

yours and Emma's paint issues was nothing more than Savini blowing smoke up your asses. they painted your wheels. thats all. they didnt prep them, they may have cleaned them, but they sure as shit didnt remove the CHROME off the wheels prior to painting them. they just painted right over the chrome.

Originally Posted by Chris_B

It doesn't appear to me that the tires can been ruled out yet. Savini probably does not have the equipment to check tires, nor would any wheel manufacturer be expected to. Your installer should be asked to step up and check them, or he can get with his local Pirelli rep for further assistance if lacking the proper equipment or expertise. A simple runout check might reveal some interesting data, but internal construction issues are harder to detect.

After many years, I have yet to see a round tire! The name on the side does not guarantee that they will be perfectly round and have the same spring rate all the way around. Pirelli is one of my favorite brands, but I've had a bad one before (internal belt problem). Fortunately, it was replaced without question.

This not my discussion, so ignore me if you like. However, I'm not convinced at this point that the wheels are the problem. They COULD BE, but the tires have not been crossed off the troubleshooting list yet. In my experience, tires are more often a problem than wheels. I've dealt with very complicated troubleshooting issues in the past, some of which were instantly and completely cured by changing the tires. This has a lot to do with the different manufacturing processes, since wheels are machined and are easier to hold tolerances than tires popped out of a mold. Tire manufacturing is a much of a black art as it is a science. Preforms, belt layout, mold temperatures and pressures, chemical variations in the compound, etc. There are lots of things that can go wrong with tire manufacturing, even to the best of them.

tires could be part of the problem. but that doesnt explain Randy's video where he spins the wheel and you can watch it move nearly an inch up and down (out of round).



Jekyl, ship the wheels and get your money back.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Chris_B

It doesn't appear to me that the tires can been ruled out yet. Savini probably does not have the equipment to check tires, nor would any wheel manufacturer be expected to. Your installer should be asked to step up and check them, or he can get with his local Pirelli rep for further assistance if lacking the proper equipment or expertise. A simple runout check might reveal some interesting data, but internal construction issues are harder to detect.

After many years, I have yet to see a round tire! The name on the side does not guarantee that they will be perfectly round and have the same spring rate all the way around. Pirelli is one of my favorite brands, but I've had a bad one before (internal belt problem). Fortunately, it was replaced without question.

This not my discussion, so ignore me if you like. However, I'm not convinced at this point that the wheels are the problem. They COULD BE, but the tires have not been crossed off the troubleshooting list yet. In my experience, tires are more often a problem than wheels. I've dealt with very complicated troubleshooting issues in the past, some of which were instantly and completely cured by changing the tires. This has a lot to do with the different manufacturing processes, since wheels are machined and are easier to hold tolerances than tires popped out of a mold. Tire manufacturing is a much of a black art as it is a science. Preforms, belt layout, mold temperatures and pressures, chemical variations in the compound, etc. There are lots of things that can go wrong with tire manufacturing, even to the best of them.

Originally Posted by stieger

Chris, I can acknowledge your theory about it being the tires. You said yourself that you have had one (singular here btw) bad tire. My only question is, IF it is the tires. How do you explain PQ, Darth_Emma, Jkel, and the countless other people who have had problems with Savini wheels? Can you tell me with a straight face that ALL of them had bad tires? That to this day PQ's wheel vibration is due to tires.

This is what I'll do. I will personally pay for Jkel to get new tires, whatever tires he wants I don't care. But, if/when the wheels still vibrate you pay me back double the cost of the tires. I'm more than happy to write up a contact and make this all legal so we can get this thing started. Unless of course you think that the tires aren't the problem.

Not sure if you followed my own Savini saga.

I did, documented, and posted the following:

Local shop tested for runout. (5 or 6 different times, even after Savini did them)
Videoed the wheels bouncing up and down while being spun. (2 different times)
Mounted and balanced and mounted and balanced and rotated the tires on the rims and mounted and balanced again. (Several times)
Completely replaced two tires do to a flat and a tire shop screw up.
Mounted DIFFERENT tires on the wheels and still vibrated.
Savini had them back twice and finally after my last video showed them well out of tolerance they made two new wheels for the WORST two.
They were MUCH MUCH better. Smooth as glass compared to previous. But still a slight vibration I could live with.

There is plenty more if you want to read through a couple threads with page after page.

Bottom line is once I got finished with them and had an acceptable wheel situation the paint started coming of in large chips. I mean like a bad sunburn peels. I washed my hands of them and will never ever ever recomend them EVER.

I even paid my own damn shipping at 325.00 the first time they went back.

I amply deleted the tire/car factor. It was the wheels. When they remade them they were ok. NOT until then. And just ok. Rent&Roll let me use some tires for my Savinis to rule them out AND showed me some wheels that were there the same size that had NO bounc in them at all.

Feel free (anyone) to call Darren at Rent&Roll in Mobile Alabama to verify all of this. (251)345-3347

I also have plenty of documentation from all the other shops as well.

I know this isn't my thread, but I just want to make it clear here that this isn't a case of an overly sensitive customer. I'll be happy to show ALL of my evedence that Savini makes a shitty product for the money.

Considering all the help that they DID give me, and I still end up with shitty wheels, I can only conclude that they make a shitty wheel.

[Chris_B]

Originally Posted by stieger

Chris, I can acknowledge your theory about it being the tires. You said yourself that you have had one (singular here btw) bad tire. My only question is, IF it is the tires. How do you explain PQ, Darth_Emma, Jkel, and the countless other people who have had problems with Savini wheels? Can you tell me with a straight face that ALL of them had bad tires? That to this day PQ's wheel vibration is due to tires.

This is what I'll do. I will personally pay for Jkel to get new tires, whatever tires he wants I don't care. But, if/when the wheels still vibrate you pay me back double the cost of the tires. I'm more than happy to write up a contact and make this all legal so we can get this thing started. Unless of course you think that the tires aren't the problem.

Sorry you misunderstood my post. I'm an engineer by background. As such, I have extensive training and experience in troubleshooting, a process that does not bow to popularity, abstract theories, coincidence or the court of public opinion. No offense taken, but there is no way one can conclude that I'm saying Dr Jkels tires are definitely at fault. I AM pointing out they may not been eliminated from the list of potential causes yet, based on what I've read here so far.

I know Butler Tire is a top-notch organization and has the means and resources to help him out. In fact, when I was sitting with the SoCal Pirelli rep today, I asked him which company he would send someone to in Dr Jkel's area if that person were experiencing difficulties with a new tire/wheel setup. His first response was Butler Tire in Atlanta. Dr Jkel is not a customer of ours (as far as I'm aware), but none of us like to see a Camaro5 member struggle as he has. We also work with Savini Wheels (they are about 2 miles from us) and have had excellent results so far. No company is 100% perfect, and I do know they are constantly making improvements in their production processes. We've even made some paint and finishing suggestions that could be taking hold over there soon (we have a certified BASF Glasurit lifetime guarantee paint department here and are often experimenting with the latest finishing products before they are on the market).

All that said, have the hubs been checked for runout? Have the wheel bearings been checked? Has the steering rack, mount bushings and tie rod ends been checked? How about the upper strut bearings? There is a long list of things that need to be gone over if balancing does not cure a vibration issue. We know only the wheels and tires changed, but sometimes moving to a larger, heavier set of wheels and tires will expose a weakness not previously seen with the OE set.

Look, there is no way for anyone to diagnose this issue from a distant or through the forum. But if a wheel company told me they checked the wheel for runout (and I knew they had the equipment and expertise to do it right) and it was well within tolerance, I would also spend time looking at other potential causes. Maybe the wheels do have a problem, but the engineer in me would keep me from jumping to a conclusion without more data. I've seen just about every possible suspension/wheel/tire failure or problem possible over the years. Believe me, I've eating more than my share of crow after jumping to a conclusion too quickly just to find out it was something else causing the problem -- sometimes even the least expected thing can bite us.

I truly hope Dr Jkel gets the issue handled to his satisfaction. If anything I've written here helps at all -- great. If not, pass this comment by and read on! If Savini is at fault, they need to stand behind their work just like the rest of us in the industry. But it is tough watching the tribe frog-marching them to the boiling cauldron if there could possibly be another cause that has yet to be determined. It's very hard to "un-hang" someone once they are dead!

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Chris_B

Sorry you misunderstood my post. I'm an engineer by background. As such, I have extensive training and experience in troubleshooting, a process that does not bow to popularity, abstract theories, coincidence or the court of public opinion. No offense taken, but there is no way one can conclude that I'm saying Dr Jkels tires are definitely at fault. I AM pointing out they may not been eliminated from the list of potential causes yet, based on what I've read here so far.

I know Butler Tire is a top-notch organization and has the means and resources to help him out. In fact, when I was sitting with the SoCal Pirelli rep today, I asked him which company he would send someone to in Dr Jkel's area if that person were experiencing difficulties with a new tire/wheel setup. His first response was Butler Tire in Atlanta. Dr Jkel is not a customer of ours (as far as I'm aware), but none of us like to see a Camaro5 member struggle as he has. We also work with Savini Wheels (they are about 2 miles from us) and have had excellent results so far. No company is 100% perfect, and I do know they are constantly making improvements in their production processes. We've even made some paint and finishing suggestions that could be taking hold over there soon (we have a certified BASF Glasurit lifetime guarantee paint department here and are often experimenting with the latest finishing products before they are on the market).

All that said, have the hubs been checked for runout? Have the wheel bearings been checked? Has the steering rack, mount bushings and tie rod ends been checked? How about the upper strut bearings? There is a long list of things that need to be gone over if balancing does not cure a vibration issue. We know only the wheels and tires changed, but sometimes moving to a larger, heavier set of wheels and tires will expose a weakness not previously seen with the OE set.

Look, there is no way for anyone to diagnose this issue from a distant or through the forum. But if a wheel company told me they checked the wheel for runout (and I knew they had the equipment and expertise to do it right) and it was well within tolerance, I would also spend time looking at other potential causes. Maybe the wheels do have a problem, but the engineer in me would keep me from jumping to a conclusion without more data. I've seen just about every possible suspension/wheel/tire failure or problem possible over the years. Believe me, I've eating more than my share of crow after jumping to a conclusion too quickly just to find out it was something else causing the problem -- sometimes even the least expected thing can bite us.

I truly hope Dr Jkel gets the issue handled to his satisfaction. If anything I've written here helps at all -- great. If not, pass this comment by and read on! If Savini is at fault, they need to stand behind their work just like the rest of us in the industry. But it is tough watching the tribe frog-marching them to the boiling cauldron if there could possibly be another cause that has yet to be determined. It's very hard to "un-hang" someone once they are dead!

That is perfectly fair.

But I'm satisfied when I put another set of 22 inch wheels same dimensions and weight on my car and it rides perfectly smooth. AND put my Savini wheels on another two other Camaros and they vibrate. This was before they remade the two wheels but it was good enough for me.

Also, when you spin the wheel and see it bouncing up and down there is a problem.

I say all that to say this...............

I don't believe Savinis problem is capability but give-a-shitability at the right places. They got my wheels back and told me they changed parts and didn't change a damn thing. They got them back and did a 'Runout', was satisfied and sent them back to me. When Darren at R&R got them back he asked me what they did and I told them what I was told by Savini. That parts were changed 'Despite being within tolerance." Darren asked if they told me specifically what was changed. I told him no. Darren showed me my wheels and asked if I thought it appeared that anything was changed.

There were no parts changed.

I know you SoCal guys like to stick together, and that's fine. But I know what I know. I learn while I go and what I learned during this whole thing is that equipment and people can both be defective. In this case I can't quite put my finger on it but I got screwed by Savini. Of that there can be no doubt.

My point? If they did it to once, twice and three times that we know of, they'll do it again.

[garcmol]

Holy crap!!! John put stock 20"s back on the car and NO vibration. He put the Savini's back on and they vibrate.

Unless I'm missing something, how in the world could that be due to wheel bearings, steering rack, mount bushings or tie rod ends?

I'm not bashing anyone's post, but it just seems to me that if I put "A" on the car and it's fine; then put "B" on the car and it vibrates, then "B" would seem to be the logical conclusion for the vibration.

[Dr Jkel]

Originally Posted by Chris_B

It doesn't appear to me that the tires can been ruled out yet. Savini probably does not have the equipment to check tires, nor would any wheel manufacturer be expected to. Your installer should be asked to step up and check them, or he can get with his local Pirelli rep for further assistance if lacking the proper equipment or expertise. A simple runout check might reveal some interesting data, but internal construction issues are harder to detect.

After many years, I have yet to see a round tire! The name on the side does not guarantee that they will be perfectly round and have the same spring rate all the way around. Pirelli is one of my favorite brands, but I've had a bad one before (internal belt problem). Fortunately, it was replaced without question.

This not my discussion, so ignore me if you like. However, I'm not convinced at this point that the wheels are the problem. They COULD BE, but the tires have not been crossed off the troubleshooting list yet. In my experience, tires are more often a problem than wheels. I've dealt with very complicated troubleshooting issues in the past, some of which were instantly and completely cured by changing the tires. This has a lot to do with the different manufacturing processes, since wheels are machined and are easier to hold tolerances than tires popped out of a mold. Tire manufacturing is a much of a black art as it is a science. Preforms, belt layout, mold temperatures and pressures, chemical variations in the compound, etc. There are lots of things that can go wrong with tire manufacturing, even to the best of them.

Chris----I am by no means a tire/wheels expert, an engineer or fortune tellar but I do know they vibrate.

Could it be the tires????? Well sure it could.......but my question to BFXAUTO was " Were the tires checked?" NOPE sure wasn't. Why I have no clue, an answer BFXAUTO would have to give but anything is reasonable like tires etc..... As far as I know they were not checked.

Originally Posted by stieger

Chris, I can acknowledge your theory about it being the tires. You said yourself that you have had one (singular here btw) bad tire. My only question is, IF it is the tires. How do you explain PQ, Darth_Emma, Jkel, and the countless other people who have had problems with Savini wheels? Can you tell me with a straight face that ALL of them had bad tires? That to this day PQ's wheel vibration is due to tires.

This is what I'll do. I will personally pay for Jkel to get new tires, whatever tires he wants I don't care. But, if/when the wheels still vibrate you pay me back double the cost of the tires. I'm more than happy to write up a contact and make this all legal so we can get this thing started. Unless of course you think that the tires aren't the problem.

Stieger- I appreciate the offer but feel this should be the vendors responsibility to take care of.

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

Easy guys..

Lets not add any fuel to the fire. lets hear out all suggestions.

No need to defensive.

Yes we are not fighting each other, most if not all are trying to help or throw out options that I truly appreciate.

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

definition of perfect is lacking here...
yours and Emma's paint issues was nothing more than Savini blowing smoke up your asses. they painted your wheels. thats all. they didnt prep them, they may have cleaned them, but they sure as shit didnt remove the CHROME off the wheels prior to painting them. they just painted right over the chrome.
tires could be part of the problem. but that doesnt explain Randy's video where he spins the wheel and you can watch it move nearly an inch up and down (out of round).
Jekyl, ship the wheels and get your money back.

Spike I sure would ship them back but I need it confirmed before I do, not gonna end up like Emma where they held the wheels for ransom.

Originally Posted by PQ

Not sure if you followed my own Savini saga.

I did, documented, and posted the following:

Local shop tested for runout. (5 or 6 different times, even after Savini did them)
Videoed the wheels bouncing up and down while being spun. (2 different times)
Mounted and balanced and mounted and balanced and rotated the tires on the rims and mounted and balanced again. (Several times)
Completely replaced two tires do to a flat and a tire shop screw up.
Mounted DIFFERENT tires on the wheels and still vibrated.
Savini had them back twice and finally after my last video showed them well out of tolerance they made two new wheels for the WORST two.
They were MUCH MUCH better. Smooth as glass compared to previous. But still a slight vibration I could live with.

There is plenty more if you want to read through a couple threads with page after page.

Bottom line is once I got finished with them and had an acceptable wheel situation the paint started coming of in large chips. I mean like a bad sunburn peels. I washed my hands of them and will never ever ever recomend them EVER.

I even paid my own damn shipping at 325.00 the first time they went back.

I amply deleted the tire/car factor. It was the wheels. When they remade them they were ok. NOT until then. And just ok. Rent&Roll let me use some tires for my Savinis to rule them out AND showed me some wheels that were there the same size that had NO bounc in them at all.

Feel free (anyone) to call Darren at Rent&Roll in Mobile Alabama to verify all of this. (251)345-3347

I also have plenty of documentation from all the other shops as well.

I know this isn't my thread, but I just want to make it clear here that this isn't a case of an overly sensitive customer. I'll be happy to show ALL of my evedence that Savini makes a shitty product for the money.

Considering all the help that they DID give me, and I still end up with shitty wheels, I can only conclude that they make a shitty wheel.

This is exactly the same story they are telling me. Savini will not talk with me. PERIOD. They are going through the vendor and that is the only one I have to deal with because no one at Savini will even reply to an e-mail.

Originally Posted by Chris_B

Sorry you misunderstood my post. I'm an engineer by background. As such, I have extensive training and experience in troubleshooting, a process that does not bow to popularity, abstract theories, coincidence or the court of public opinion. No offense taken, but there is no way one can conclude that I'm saying Dr Jkels tires are definitely at fault. I AM pointing out they may not been eliminated from the list of potential causes yet, based on what I've read here so far.

I know Butler Tire is a top-notch organization and has the means and resources to help him out. In fact, when I was sitting with the SoCal Pirelli rep today, I asked him which company he would send someone to in Dr Jkel's area if that person were experiencing difficulties with a new tire/wheel setup. His first response was Butler Tire in Atlanta. Dr Jkel is not a customer of ours (as far as I'm aware), but none of us like to see a Camaro5 member struggle as he has. We also work with Savini Wheels (they are about 2 miles from us) and have had excellent results so far. No company is 100% perfect, and I do know they are constantly making improvements in their production processes. We've even made some paint and finishing suggestions that could be taking hold over there soon (we have a certified BASF Glasurit lifetime guarantee paint department here and are often experimenting with the latest finishing products before they are on the market).

All that said, have the hubs been checked for runout? Have the wheel bearings been checked? Has the steering rack, mount bushings and tie rod ends been checked? How about the upper strut bearings? There is a long list of things that need to be gone over if balancing does not cure a vibration issue. We know only the wheels and tires changed, but sometimes moving to a larger, heavier set of wheels and tires will expose a weakness not previously seen with the OE set.

Look, there is no way for anyone to diagnose this issue from a distant or through the forum. But if a wheel company told me they checked the wheel for runout (and I knew they had the equipment and expertise to do it right) and it was well within tolerance, I would also spend time looking at other potential causes. Maybe the wheels do have a problem, but the engineer in me would keep me from jumping to a conclusion without more data. I've seen just about every possible suspension/wheel/tire failure or problem possible over the years. Believe me, I've eating more than my share of crow after jumping to a conclusion too quickly just to find out it was something else causing the problem -- sometimes even the least expected thing can bite us.

I truly hope Dr Jkel gets the issue handled to his satisfaction. If anything I've written here helps at all -- great. If not, pass this comment by and read on! If Savini is at fault, they need to stand behind their work just like the rest of us in the industry. But it is tough watching the tribe frog-marching them to the boiling cauldron if there could possibly be another cause that has yet to be determined. It's very hard to "un-hang" someone once they are dead!

I went to Butler Tire because they were a highly reputable vendor who also sells Savini Wheels. This way I could not be blamed for damaging the wheels, they installer/balance could not be balmed for any damage as was the case with PQ.

They checked they wheels and tried to balance them three different ways. BUTLER told me that the wheels were NOT hubcentric and that was part of the reason they vibrated........I send them back to Savini and Savini says no they are perfect. Now I may not be a rocket scientist but I do know you can make numbers read what you want in measurements.

You seems like a smart person Chris so you explain why when I put the factory wheels on my car that they did not vibrate and when I put the Savini's on that they do.

I do understand your point but it is not the cars fault. I have 9200 miles on my car in over 2 years. They tires are not roasted. I asked for a tread depth test to prove that....was it done? Well of course not. Why? Because you can look at the tires and tell I have not abused them.


You ask for the car to be checked. On Who's dime? Why should I have to jump through hoops just because I bought a set of wheels. They should be able to be bolted on and ride smooth, correct?

I have a 06 2500HD 4X4 Diesel Crewcab truck with 20" Gear Wheels AND 35" Nitto Terra Grappler tires. That is A LOT tire and wheel combo and I hve ZERO vibration issues, I MEAN ZERO.

I know you are trying to help me and I really appreciate your knowledge and experience. If you know of a local Pirelli rep in MY area (36203) please by all means PM me their information so I can get in contact with them. It will not hurt at this point.

I find it strange that others who do not have Savini wheels are not having issues.......maybe they are and the Manufacturor fixed the issue????

Originally Posted by PQ

That is perfectly fair.

But I'm satisfied when I put another set of 22 inch wheels same dimensions and weight on my car and it rides perfectly smooth. AND put my Savini wheels on another two other Camaros and they vibrate. This was before they remade the two wheels but it was good enough for me.

Also, when you spin the wheel and see it bouncing up and down there is a problem.

I say all that to say this...............

I don't believe Savinis problem is capability but give-a-shitability at the right places. They got my wheels back and told me they changed parts and didn't change a damn thing. They got them back and did a 'Runout', was satisfied and sent them back to me. When Darren at R&R got them back he asked me what they did and I told them what I was told by Savini. That parts were changed 'Despite being within tolerance." Darren asked if they told me specifically what was changed. I told him no. Darren showed me my wheels and asked if I thought it appeared that anything was changed.

There were no parts changed.

I know you SoCal guys like to stick together, and that's fine. But I know what I know. I learn while I go and what I learned during this whole thing is that equipment and people can both be defective. In this case I can't quite put my finger on it but I got screwed by Savini. Of that there can be no doubt.

My point? If they did it to once, twice and three times that we know of, they'll do it again.

Same exact stroy they are giving me.

Originally Posted by garcmol

Holy crap!!! John put stock 20"s back on the car and NO vibration. He put the Savini's back on and they vibrate.

Unless I'm missing something, how in the world could that be due to wheel bearings, steering rack, mount bushings or tie rod ends?

I'm not bashing anyone's post, but it just seems to me that if I put "A" on the car and it's fine; then put "B" on the car and it vibrates, then "B" would seem to be the logical conclusion for the vibration.

Exactly Norm.......



BFXAUTO sent me an e-mail that stated " Savini says they are perfect so they are perfect because that is the only thing I have to go on, SO you will not get a refund" I figured as much.


I went to Butler for help, but since I did not buy wheels from them all they could do was try to balance them. They did call Savini for me and tried to help but again I am not their customer and basically was told by Savini to BUTT OUT......hmmmmmmm wonder why? Maybe because Butler knew they wer jacked up wheels.

[hypurone]

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

They checked they wheels and tried to balance them three different ways. BUTLER told me that the wheels were NOT hubcentric and that was part of the reason they vibrated........

This has to be the source of the issues with their wheels at least for the Camaro application. Relying on the lug nut seats to center a wheel is absurd! Any reputable company worth anything would know this. Yes, it can be done with patience and the perfect lug nut/seat combo. But just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be....

I am by no means a fan of legal recourse but I dare say the time has come!

[Dr Jkel]

Originally Posted by hypurone

This has be the source of the issues with their wheels at least for the Camaro application. Relying on the lug nut seats to center a wheel is absurd! Any reputable company worth anything would know this. Yes, it can be done with patience and the perfect lug nut/seat combo. But just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be....

I am by no means a fan of legal recourse but I dare say the time has come!

See here in lies the problem.....Butler actually showed me that the wheels were not hubcentric. They took a wheel and placed it on the hub and moverd the wheels side to side and up and down.

So the wheels went back to Savini and I was told that they were going to re-drill the centers and place rings on them. Well Savini says the wheels are hubcentric at 67 mm's. How did they measure them, Ihave no clue, did they measure them...Not real sure about that either.

Butler tried to to get them smooth and they did a good job of making the issue better. They re-indexed tires, re-indexed the wheels on the cars etc.....but I still have a vibration.

I cruise in my car, don't race or track it so while I am crusing and have my hand on the steering wheel and my hand shakes, I KNOW there is a problem. When I have drink in the console and the straw shakes non stop during driving I know there is an issue, BUT SAVINI says they are in tolerance and they are perfect............

I re-sent an e-mail this morning to BFXAUTO. I am sure I will get the same response as before.

I have an appointment to let someone else look at these wheels, again more money out of my pocket all because I bought Savini Wheels.

I feel I should not have to re-index wheels on the car, re-index the tires on the wheels everytime I drive it. When I clean my car I take the wheels off to clean the fender wells, springs, etc......but according to them I need to ensure that I put the wheels in the exact same spot as they came off. Well fine tell me exactly how to do that.

I torqued with a torque wrench the wheels to the car in a star pattern to 140 ft lbs.


This is not some PERFORMANCE mod where the cam is out of timing, headers leak, tune is off etc.... this is freaking wheels, not rocket science....I should be able to bolt these wheels on with no issues.

HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM....I am in Alabama and they are in California...kinda out of sight out of mind. They have my money and basically screw me, just like they did PQ. They brow beat you into accepting sometihng that is not right like they are doing you a favor.

That is the main reason for this thread..To let people know about Savini and apparently BFXAUTO as well. They do not stand behind the product they sell, they even tried to blame it on my car...Really?

They are progressing...at first on PQ's car they blamed everything under the sun. When that was disproved they finally made him another 2 wheels. Now because they can't blame the tire mounter ( since they did it) they are blaming the CAR.

BFXAUTO claims he does not have the money to refund mine....OK do you really want to buy things from someone who does not have the funds to operate a business? OF course we know how Savini operates.

The thing I am trying to do is inform people about these people...If it hurts their sales...oh well they should have taken care of the issue. I watch alot of automotive TV and everytime I see a person on TV recommend Savini, a nice letter goes in the mail to them.. Does it help? I have no clue but it lets them know what kind of peopl ethey are dealing with.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

See here in lies the problem.....Butler actually showed me that the wheels were not hubcentric. They took a wheel and placed it on the hub and moverd the wheels side to side and up and down.

That's pretty telling right there....

[Dr Jkel]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

That's pretty telling right there....

The technician who worked on my car for nearly 3 hours told me that if I ever took the wheels off that I had to mark the wheels to ensure they went on exactly like they came off. He also told me that I needed to try and center the lugnuts and wheels when I was mounting them back onto the car........

So basically I have to stand on one foot, with my left hand in the air at 3:00 am while singing the National Anthem, try and balance the wheels and ensure they are perfectly centered before I run the lug nuts up onto the wheel all while ensuresing the wheel is centered and they lugnuts are centered.


For some strange reason I don't think it should be this way........but then again I do live in Alabama.

[garcmol]

You could do that and concentrate better if you could play a recording of the National Anthem.......or would that void the warranty?

I feel for you brother

[PQ]

Well, John. Just wait til you get some real miles on the wheels and the car and it starts falling apart.

(I'm trying to get rid of them now) I just refuse to spend more money on wheels. I think a stock set is in my near future.

NO, I can't confirm that my Lower control arm, driveline, sway bar end link, blown strut on both rear sides have anything to do with the vibrating wheels, but who knows.

BOTH REAR STRUTS.

How many people have had a problem with even ONE rear strut, end link, lower control arm? I've replaced ALL of these on BOTH sides do to failure. Personaly I am thinking it's the wheels. Now I have a drivline/UJoint problem.

May not be the wheels but as I have been told by a good friend, "DUDE, GET THOSE F***ING THINGS OFF YOUR CAR!!!!!"

Before Savini, no problems with ANYTHING. After Savini, my car could have gone back on lemon law had it been stock.

Cooincidence. Very well could be. But these heavy ass donked out warped wheels with paint falling off doesn't help at all.

[Chris_B]

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

Chris----I am by no means a tire/wheels expert, an engineer or fortune tellar but I do know they vibrate.

Could it be the tires????? Well sure it could.......but my question to BFXAUTO was " Were the tires checked?" NOPE sure wasn't. Why I have no clue, an answer BFXAUTO would have to give but anything is reasonable like tires etc..... As far as I know they were not checked.

Savini does not have (nor would any other custom, made-to-order wheel manufacturer that I know of) the equipment to check a tire for construction problems. The best Hunter tire balance machine (GSP9700) has road force diagnostics, but not many shops have spent the extra money for that unit. The diagnostics look at radial spring rates around the entire circumference in an effort to measure the soundness of a tire's construction. If there was an internal belt or other problem, that machine might be able to catch it. Without that, you can only really measure tire runout. And, yes, ALL tires have runout as they are out of round and the tread wobbles from side to side as they spin. The better ones do very little of that, but they still do it. Either of those conditions, if severe enough, will cause vibrations and/or noise.

Originally Posted by Dr Jkel

I went to Butler Tire because they were a highly reputable vendor who also sells Savini Wheels. This way I could not be blamed for damaging the wheels, they installer/balance could not be balmed for any damage as was the case with PQ.

They checked they wheels and tried to balance them three different ways. BUTLER told me that the wheels were NOT hubcentric and that was part of the reason they vibrated........I send them back to Savini and Savini says no they are perfect. Now I may not be a rocket scientist but I do know you can make numbers read what you want in measurements.

You seems like a smart person Chris so you explain why when I put the factory wheels on my car that they did not vibrate and when I put the Savini's on that they do.

I do understand your point but it is not the cars fault. I have 9200 miles on my car in over 2 years. They tires are not roasted. I asked for a tread depth test to prove that....was it done? Well of course not. Why? Because you can look at the tires and tell I have not abused them.


You ask for the car to be checked. On Who's dime? Why should I have to jump through hoops just because I bought a set of wheels. They should be able to be bolted on and ride smooth, correct?

I have a 06 2500HD 4X4 Diesel Crewcab truck with 20" Gear Wheels AND 35" Nitto Terra Grappler tires. That is A LOT tire and wheel combo and I hve ZERO vibration issues, I MEAN ZERO.

I know you are trying to help me and I really appreciate your knowledge and experience. If you know of a local Pirelli rep in MY area (36203) please by all means PM me their information so I can get in contact with them. It will not hurt at this point.

I find it strange that others who do not have Savini wheels are not having issues.......maybe they are and the Manufacturor fixed the issue????

Again, very tough to diagnose an issue like this from a distance or on a forum and get it completely right. It does APPEAR that either the wheels or tires are the problem. However, it takes hands-on experts and some decent equipment to sort out what the root cause is. That said, the wheels do need to register on the hub for them to have a chance at rotating on the same center as the hub and stub axle. This is really true for all vehicles, not just ones listed as hub-centric. I do not rely on wheel studs, wheel screws or lug nuts to center a wheel, but that comes from decades of dealing with vehicles that routinely run over 200mph.

Our Pirelli rep stopped reading his database when he saw Butler Tire. Pushing further, he says NTB is a large authorized dealer closer to you, but he is not sure if they will have solid diagnostics at each location. You might want to call ahead and see which one they suggest you go to. And, he is confident (being employed by Pirelli, of course) that the tires are not likely at fault due to that particular size being made on a robotic assembly line. But, in my experience, you just can't be sure until everything has been checked out!