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Old 10-06-2011, 05:42 AM   #43
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GTR maybe?
They do reference the GTR, now my 2011 sucks... and there should be more HP this year... I can actually see them competing with the GTR on the SVT side in a few years...
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:17 AM   #44
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Ford is far too agile for GM atm. They are not bogged down in the level of bureaucracy GM is and can produce/innovate at a much faster pace. This is a prime example.


BTW - I can't wait to line up against some ZL1's at the strip. I think they will be surprised a N/A 5.0 made it to the end first all the while showing those fugly taillights.
Ok? The ZL1 came out in the Camaro's 3rd model year and seems to be an awesome car if some of the numbers posted are correct. The GT500 has been around since '07 and this generation Mustang since '05.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:22 AM   #45
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More power, less weight, launch control, and track mode the new gt500 will be insane! now they need to fix those fugly tail-lights. The 2013 GT500 will prbably be faster than the zl1 around the ring.

From an SVT member:
GM posted new Nurburgring ZL1 footage of 2 different cars 2 days after my post. There were locals running watches (as always)... There are a few of us going up this weekend, there were afternoon tourist days all this week and I have heard that "the" 500 was up there. Friday is an unannounced day so, if we are lucky, we could see some last minute runs before round 8 of the VLN on Saturday. The race starts at noon so track prep can be done prior to that so Friday will be one of those days you see strange test being done because the day isn't advertised and spectators are fewer.

Something was wrong with the blue ZL1, nothing severe enough to tow it away... It was running funny I guess.. I wasn't there though. There were 2 full tourist days on the 18th and 19th so I think the testing was done on those days. There were two afternoon slots on the 16th and 17th but I heard it was Sunday/Monday. The times are similar to the black and blue but not red ("the" 500). I heard that SVT is staying at the hotel Tiergarten in Nurburg but the car won't be there . A couple of my guys are up there now (I am having trouble standing up this week), the track should open in about an hour and a half (about 1730), I hope they catch something.

Depending on what I see, a trip to Cologne might be in the future .

Edit: Comparing the two videos, there is a portion of the track that both "the" 500 and the Blue ZL1 run through in each of their videos. This particular turn is dangerous on exit in the GT500 as it has a cemented area that causes the cars axle to lateral push with a mini hop and chirp. Red was about 1-1.5 seconds faster through that area than the ZL1. The ZL1 is slower in the turns for some reason, it took the bump kinda sluggish and got to the end of the candy cane at least a second behind.


P.S. New camaro's have nothing to worry about the 5.0. Their manually chinese tranny is crap & and they blow up #8 cylinder's if you tune them.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:26 AM   #46
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Ford stole my idea for the Z28/ZL1 :(. All new Mustangs will have an on board performance monitor via a 4.2 LCD on the panel that displays everything from G-force readouts to temperature gauges spanning various internals (engine, transmission, intake, etc.), braking, 0-60 mph and 0-100 mph times, eighth-mile and quarter-mile times, by way of a simulated dragstrip Christmas tree.

http://jalopnik.com/5847018/2013-mus...ps-lcd-display

There goes my million dollar idea.. I wonder where they got it from?
will that be by the speedometer? are they going with an all digital dash now?

hopefully i'll be able to upgrade :/
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:36 AM   #47
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will that be by the speedometer? are they going with an all digital dash now?

hopefully i'll be able to upgrade :/
The LCD should be placed between the speedo and tach.. I am sure you can upgrade but with this kind of tech being offered stock, it will be no time that there are aftermarket systems that can retro fit any older cars. It should be based off of a NAV system as far as distance and time go, everything else is probably an on board sensor...

I refuse to sell my 2011 but a 2015 might be in my future... I am among the 200,000 that thought the 2010, 2011 and 2012 looked better than the 2005-2009.. plus, it was delivered and picked up 6 hours after my 2nd son was born.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:38 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by thePill View Post
Ford stole my idea for the Z28/ZL1 :(. All new Mustangs will have an on board performance monitor via a 4.2 LCD on the panel that displays everything from G-force readouts to temperature gauges spanning various internals (engine, transmission, intake, etc.), braking, 0-60 mph and 0-100 mph times, eighth-mile and quarter-mile times, by way of a simulated dragstrip Christmas tree.

http://jalopnik.com/5847018/2013-mus...ps-lcd-display

There goes my million dollar idea.. I wonder where they got it from?
Chrysler has had a similar feature on SRTs for years.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:46 AM   #49
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The LCD should be placed between the speedo and tach.. I am sure you can upgrade but with this kind of tech being offered stock, it will be no time that there are aftermarket systems that can retro fit any older cars. It should be based off of a NAV system as far as distance and time go, everything else is probably an on board sensor...

I refuse to sell my 2011 but a 2015 might be in my future... I am among the 200,000 that thought the 2010, 2011 and 2012 looked better than the 2005-2009.. plus, it was delivered and picked up 6 hours after my 2nd son was born.
yeah, i have put much too much time and money to ever sell my 2010. i may even avoid the 2015 as to let them iron out the details. if Ford goes with a digital tach/speedometer i will certainly have that put in, as well as the recaros im still waiting for.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:48 AM   #50
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Chrysler has had a similar feature on SRTs for years.
I doubt it was at the extent in which the Ford system is, even the GTR's isn't as complex as this one. I believe it only monitored 11 different aspects of engine spec, transmission specs and torque split but I am not sure there was a braking monitor, 0-60, 0-100, 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, Christmas tree feature and G forces.. let alone internal engine component speeds and temps, transmission temps (probably with shift and gear indicators) and god knows what else. If it is based on NAV then in the future you can save your favorite tracks and your best lap times/performance, upload them onto a thumb drive via the USB port in the console.. and upload them to your lap top and overlay them with previous runs to see your progression...

While Ford realizes that a large portion of buyers are racing these cars, why not integrate the lap top, testing equipment and 5th wheel into the car using existing vehicle equipment. It will actually reduce race/test weight and only add the minimum weight to the production car...

Anyway, back the the 5.8.. There are sources now saying that the 5.8 will be at the magic 620hp mark like previously stated by C&D. I guess their sources were correct... somewhat...

Quote:
Our well-informed sources say the stratospheric output figure, which could be as high as 620 horses, is the result of boring out the current 5.4-liter V-8 to 5.8 liters and swapping the existing Eaton M112 supercharger for the same firm’s more-efficient and quieter TVS unit.

Last edited by thePill; 10-06-2011 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:50 AM   #51
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I don't it was at the extent in which the Ford system is, even the GTR's isn't as complex as this one. I believe it only monitored 11 different aspects of engine spec, transmission specs and torque split but I am not sure there was a braking monitor, 0-60, 0-100, 1/8th mile, 1/4 mile, Christmas tree feature and G forces.. let alond internal engine component speeds and temps, transmission temps (probably with shift and gear indicators) and god knows what else.
This is true, it seems like the 12 version may be a bit more complex and offer more info than their previous versions, not sure on that though.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:10 PM   #52
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It wont matter what Ford puts in the Shelby GT500 for 2013 600hp wont matter if the Shelby GT500 still has the same pathetic suspension and still cant put the power to the ground with traction management it wont matter. We already know the ZL1 has no trouble with either of those and Ford doesnt have the technology that Chevy & Ferrari has with magnetic suspension so we will see. Im betting the suspension and PTM will be too much for the Shelby unless they have some new technology tricks up their sleeve.
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:28 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon View Post
It wont matter what Ford puts in the Shelby GT500 for 2013 600hp wont matter if the Shelby GT500 still has the same pathetic suspension and still cant put the power to the ground with traction management it wont matter. We already know the ZL1 has no trouble with either of those and Ford doesnt have the technology that Chevy & Ferrari has with magnetic suspension so we will see. Im betting the suspension and PTM will be too much for the Shelby unless they have some new technology tricks up their sleeve.
Ford fix all of its suspension problems in 2011. No more wheel hop and other common complaints, it just hooks up and goes. I was even getting low 1.9 second sixty foots with stock tires my first time out at the track last year when I was stock.

A lot has changed since 2007
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Old 10-06-2011, 12:35 PM   #54
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Ford fix all of its suspension problems in 2011. No more wheel hop and other common complaints, it just hooks up and goes. I was even getting low 1.9 second sixty foots with stock tires my first time out at the track last year when I was stock.

A lot has changed since 2007
We will have to wait and see all I know is they have ran the CTS-V against the newer 2010-11 Shelby and the CTS-V has won alot of those comparisons. Either way its good for all of us for them to be competing it breeds better cars from both manufacturers. There has also been a track package spotted on the ZL1 or that could be testing for the new Z28 not sure
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:17 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon View Post
It wont matter what Ford puts in the Shelby GT500 for 2013 600hp wont matter if the Shelby GT500 still has the same pathetic suspension and still cant put the power to the ground with traction management it wont matter. We already know the ZL1 has no trouble with either of those and Ford doesnt have the technology that Chevy & Ferrari has with magnetic suspension so we will see. Im betting the suspension and PTM will be too much for the Shelby unless they have some new technology tricks up their sleeve.
Please don't try to talk "car talk" citing things you obviously don't know much about.
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon View Post
It wont matter what Ford puts in the Shelby GT500 for 2013 600hp wont matter if the Shelby GT500 still has the same pathetic suspension and still cant put the power to the ground with traction management it wont matter. We already know the ZL1 has no trouble with either of those and Ford doesnt have the technology that Chevy & Ferrari has with magnetic suspension so we will see. Im betting the suspension and PTM will be too much for the Shelby unless they have some new technology tricks up their sleeve.
I understand your enthusiasm with the ZL1 since it claimed a 7:41 unofficial ring time. I was there in June during a 10 day industry booking when "Red" was lapping the ring faster than the ZL1's September time. SVT has actually been working on the car since the Z28 hype in October of last year. 7:41 is fast however, it was a rolling start (same as Red but not like the CTS-V) and will never be an official run (same as Red). The suspension that underpins the 2013 GT500 is almost identical to that in which the Boss 302S uses and runs in SCCA and Grand Am and very similar to the Shelby GT350. The car will most likely use Corsa's but is unknown if Ford really wants to go with a 305.. If a 305 is used, I expect the GT500 (or SVT Cobra) to be back over here Sometime in March/April to lay down a REAL Ring time.

Here is what we seen in June, Ford tested this GT500 while Team Corvette ran the record ring run...

Quote:
Long time reader and first time poster. I am currently stationed in Kaiserslauthern, Germany and was informed on Tuesday that there was a new GT500 testing at Nurburgring. I went up on Wednesday and Thursday to check it out. There were quite a few club members there and they were clocking both cars throughout the week. You could not get near the vehicles (not that I would try) and no questions were answered. It rained Monday, Tuesday and some on Wednesday and was cool and clear the rest of the week (about 65-72). I could not hear a supercharger or a turbo but I was not very close to the actual track and exhaust was pretty decent (and tire noise). Club members here clocked the red GT500 around a best of 7:30 and the black one around 7:40. There were two passengers most of the time with the occasional driver only run. The cars would do 2-3 laps of 8 minute laps and then move to a 7:XX lap so it seems heat soak was being looked at as well. It was said that Karl Gieger was there personally but I don't know if anybody from the US has heard of him. The traffic was pretty low when I went up on Wednesday and Thursday and I was told that the it was that way pretty much all week. Both cars would do 2-3 laps, sometimes running together, sometimes one at a time and then they would disappear for 30 minutes. There were a series of 10 minute laps (which is slow) and as I said, multiple time keepers clocked the cars mid 7 minutes at their best under very good weather and traffic. This is all I know, I have iPhone video of some turns but it really sucks and the audio was crappy so I didn't keep them, the group I was in picked a location way too far from the track IMO. We were told that there would be photos and video online later this month so I didn't care about the video. I was surprised when I checked the internet late Thursday night and found it posted already.

Anyway, I thought the lap times would be interesting at least, I am trying to circulate this info as much as possible. I was also told that a local guy ran his Boss 302 LS at a 7:45-7:49 which is right on par with the BMW M3 GTS and the Audi R8 V10 but this, along with everything else I was told is all hearsay. I did however, confirm a 7:35 from the red GT500 and a 7:43 from the black car via a club members stop watch so... I can see a 7:30 and a 7:40 from these cars. There was speculation about the Red GT500 being a Nurburgring edition and the other being a future production GT500 SVTPP. There was speculation that maybe one was a manual and one was an auto and that one was a 2012 and the red one was a 2013.... either way, they were both very fast and ran most of the day for most of the week...

Hope this helps...
http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/ind...e/page__st__20 The video was posted a few days later... We did do some separate timing on a very special part of the track and found that "Red" was almost as fast as the ZR1 through that particular section (about 0.7 second behind the ZR1 and 1.4 seconds faster than the ZL1).

I am impressed that Chevrolet beat the C63 Black that was 4123lbs and produced 670hp and 740tq... however, that run was actually an official run from a stop (like the ZR1). If Ford is going into this race with a 7:35 and a 167mph top speed (the only lap I seen and the top speed was not confirmed by us) then it is possible that this snake is prepped and ready to go.... It does weigh 3850lbs, 600-620hp and has a large supercharger on top.... The ZL1 comes in at 7:41 with 170mph top speed for reference. Remember, the 2012 CTS-V had a top speed of 144mph on the straight at VIR, the 2012 GT500 only did 137 (142 on the record run), the GT500 still beat the CTS-V in every section of the track and ultimately won by a second on the same day.

What I want to see happen, is now that Chevrolet went public with an unofficial time.. I want to see SVT hushed about the Ring and when they are compared stateside.. everyone will wonder what happened from Germany to the US? The actual battle will be at either VIR, Laguna or Willow (or all three)... VIR and Laguna hates heavy cars, Willow is a very fast track...

I doubt we will see the video of this "7:41" run but we won't see the GT500s June run either...

Edit: This is an American car defense statement here: You have to watch Porsche when you beat them, they will buy the car, ship it here, run it slower (from a dig) and call you a liar. You will ultimately have to back up the unofficial time with a production car time or they will be all over us (see GTR). Also, there is no standard for official lap times. manufacturers shave tires, run race gas, aggressive tunes, weight reduction and god knows what else. There is no official Nurburgring inspection team so the watch is really the only judge, upon futher inspection though, you will find out that you can't "Ring" as fast as the manufactures do. The SS posted an 8:20, the fastest local SS posted an 8:40 and had wheels, tires, suspension, exhaust and a few other things (weight reduction) and sold the car in August 2010 because the it was impossible to reproduce the claimed lap times (I posted this car here last year). I would like to know the details on this run but I know that I am asking for too much, the locals are also calling BS and waiting for a video upload to at least add it to the list.

Last edited by thePill; 10-06-2011 at 03:36 PM.
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