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Old 01-01-2013, 11:37 PM   #1
JHall651
 
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600 rwhp recipe?

Can someone tell me the safest way for me to get my car to 600 rwhp from where it sits now? Currently enginewise I have a Maggie 2300 running on hand held SLP tune, Borla S-Type 2.5" cat back w/ X-Pipe and ZL1 Fuel Pump being installed with my suspension mods. I'm not asking for the cheapest way to get there I am asking for the safest and most solid/drivability way to get there, with this being my most frequent daily driver. Of course I understand that a good custom tune is the major part of the recipe, I'm mainly asking for the supporting mods that will put me there with out having to have an overly aggressive tune. At the moment I know that I will need CAI, 1 7/8" LT Headers and HF Cats. The rest I'm assuming will be ID850 Fuel Injectors, OD Cog and a Cam. Im trying not to have to make to much boost to get me there that is why I didn't mention a smaller pulley. Is that a good recipe? Is it to much? To little? Way off? Let me know what you think. Ohhh! Also I would like to have a little more mid-range power. I feel like off the line the S/C is crazy but highway type roll on speeds its not enough. Thanks for the help guys and gals and Happy New Year everybody! My car is officially an old 2012... 29 more years till its a classic I guess.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:54 PM   #2
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For a daily driver, don't go the cam route. It will decrease drivability and fuel economy. An increase in boost is just as safe, it's cylinder pressure not boost that blows motors. OD cogs will up the boost too, but a smaller pulley is needed. I repeat, cam is not the best thing for a daily driver, just crank the boost a bit. Not to mention, to do the cam, you will spend WAY more.

You need headers, intake, but no cats. You don't have to do cogs, but an OD rear is a must. ZL1 pump and I'd throw in the ADM fpcm. After that, you'll need a clutch, driveshaft, axles, diff upgrade. You don't need id850s, you can go with FIC like I did to save some cash.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SS45th View Post
You need headers, intake, but no cats. You don't have to do cogs, but an OD rear is a must. Cam isn't necessary, but fueling is. ZL1 pump and I'd throw in the ADM fpcm. After that, you'll need a clutch, driveshaft, axles, diff upgrade. You don't need id850s, you can go with FIC like I did to save some cash.
Ok but I like the sound of Cogs so will an OD cog be ok? What is a fpcm? I'm not sure what FIC is but isn't the ID850 really good and will they not be good if I ever wanted to increase HP or are you saying they are to big?
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:02 AM   #4
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ID850s are nice for sure, but I won't pay $900 when I can get similar injectors for half that. FIC is who I went with for 800+whp. OD cogs are a good way to go, that's what I went with.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:51 AM   #5
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Do I really need the FPCM? I thought the ZL1 pump pretty much ran itself?
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by JHall651 View Post
Do I really need the FPCM? I thought the ZL1 pump pretty much ran itself?
IMO, yes and it's called a "Fuel Pump Control Module" for a reason. lol. Fuel is very important in a FI build. Just make sure you log fuel pressure and not just AFR.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:34 AM   #7
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Do you have LS3 or L99? Do you know what your current power level is? Safety is in the tune, how you drive and octane level. Engines are breakin at 500 HP and living at much higher. 600 WHP is a nice driving car.

Everything comes with a upside and a downside. For me, a performance cam was a good option from day 1. It will change the RPM band the engine makes power and increase efficientcy. That mid range you're looking for would be there depending on your choice of cam. There would be some drivability changes but, to me, they're very manageable. You also need solid components to support the mod. Such as valve springs and so forth. There are a lot of combos out there very similar to what you want. So there are many safe solid solutions for you. A mild cam would get you there, like anything . There is always a negative to consider as well.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:19 AM   #8
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In my opinion you can add more boost which will make it sensitive to fuel quality and push it even closer to spark knock if the tune isn't on or you can add a cam.

Recently (within the past month) We did a Magnacharger 2300 on a 2010 with a 3.4 (~9.5 psi) pulley roto fab, headers/catback. This setup make high 580's in a manual car. Car took 13-15 degrees of timing. Could not fit any more timing in without sneaking up on knock.

The next week we did the exact same setup only with a 3.8 pulley (stock) and did a cam. The customer was after some sound so we opted to do a lopey blower cam. This setup made right at 590. It never tried to spark knock on the dyno, in fact it lost power adding timing and still never knocked. This to mean tells me that it's not a fuel sensitive setup and should be plenty safe for years to come. The customer does get to enjoy a lopier idle too. The cam while sounding AWESOME still drove absolutely great. You could lug it all the way down to 13-1400 RPM and not get a buck out of it. Hopefully the customer will chime in and share his experience but it really drove great!

WE then added a 3.4 pulley. With the mod's it only made 7.5 psi and ended up with 642. Again since we let the engine move some air with the cam the IAT's stayed down, it wasn't sensitive to timing and again I believe it should last for years to come. Car ended up with 15-18 degrees of timing with no knock. Lost power or made no difference with more timing - no knock.


Don't take this as me saying it's not OK to make 600 rwhp with boost alone. Rather take it as at a point I feel like adding power with a cam on a boosted car is safer than running up the boost.

Here is the second car's build blog on our website. You can see the gains.
http://pcmofnc.com/index.php?option=...ilds&Itemid=56





Run 1 - As the car came in. Magnacharger, Kooks full exhaust, Rotofab

Run 8 - Only change is our camshaft, valve springs, pushrods, 1000 cc injectors, ZL1 fuel pump.

Run 13 - Added 3.4 pulley. Made roughly 7.5 psi.






Oh BTW. if you don't have a intake. That would be my first priority. The older SLP TVS2300's can use a rotofab. I'm not sure what the newer ones can do.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:30 AM   #9
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Assuming you're working with an LS3, you can do it with CAI, long tubes, free flowing exhaust, more boost, and a good tune. That's also assuming plenty of 93 octane fuel and appropriate injectors. Don't think you need to overdrive the rear. 3.4" pulley should do it. Temps at the time of dyno runs and type of dyno are variables that could run you either side of 600, but you should be in that ball park.

If you had a few extra bucks, I'd add a mild blower cam to the mix. You could get away with your stock valve springs and save a few bucks with an LS9 or LS7 cam. For a few dollars more, a custom grind cam would be the best option, but that would more than likely include a valve spring swap. You'll need around 10psi without the cam and 8 psi with the cam to hit your numbers.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:34 AM   #10
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if a cam is tuned properly there should be no drivability issues. i would add the cam and install meth or a dual fuel pump....or both.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:42 AM   #11
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I have a custom 3 bolt cam I had in a set up almost exactly like yours if you want it I will sell it cheap. It's alot like a ls9 cam as far a lift with a better duration has a very slight lope at idle. I had it custom done by comp and ran it maybe 2k miles before I got stupid and decided I wanted something wild and went twins. Great cam for a street car thats easy on parts and picks up some good power just thought I would throw it out there.

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Old 01-02-2013, 09:23 AM   #12
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if you go with a good custom grind you will have zero driving issues. we build lots of blower cars w/ cams that drive just like stock. if your interested in getting a custom cam let me know!
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:31 AM   #13
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Cam does not degrade drivability imop..........All in the tune. You are going to get 100000 answers that are different.

You are already blown so just add the supporting mods and be done!

CAI/LTs BAP or FPCM and you will be @ or near 600....... You do not NEED ID850s even though they are a nice piece.

If you or not @ 600 with your CAI/LT and fuel upgrade you can always add a smaller pulley or OD Cog.....

Also a BLOWER CAM custom ground can give you additional boost and no loss in drivability........
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:54 PM   #14
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If you have an LS3, you can get over 600rwhp with 1.75" headers, OD cogs, stock 3.8" pulley, upgraded injectors (over 60# injectors), ZL1 fuel pump (where you have a '12, you will need an upgraded FPCM). I added a cam to bleed off boost and keep the motor happy and have zero drive-ability issues, plus it has that bitchen old school hot rod sound.

You can pick up a couple hp/tq if you go with larger LT's (1 7/8 or 2"), but to me the extra $$$ wasn't worth the gains. It might be different now that they have been out for a while. When I got mine, they were scarce.

If you have a good tuner close to you, they can spec out a cam that will fit your needs and get you exactly what you are looking for. Just don't go the cheap route on springs/lifters. I'd also upgrade the oil pump while the cam was going in, its cheaper then having to replace it later.
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