Improve Camaro SS Handling Feel (Long Post)

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I am intimately familiar with the Mustang and the Camaro. The 2011 Stick with Brembos turned a 1.38. and a 2011 Camaro SS AUTO turned a 1.41. The Camaro was good to good after five laps. We were able to get ONLY 1.5 hot laps out of the 2011 Mustang before the brakes were destroyed.

Yes, this was a really cool comparison you guys put together. I was surprised to see the Mustang had such a HP advantage, yet the Camaro overcame that deficit to outperform the Mustang. That event and "The book" helped me make my Camaro selection over the 5.0 Mustang.

Why does the Camaro have such a heat soak problem where the Mustang does not?

I know the cars are close on the track. I was wondering here if a modified Camaro could capture that elusive handling feel that can make a car fun to drive. The Mustang has it, the stock Camaro, while a good handling car in my opinion, feels a little more truck-like. I know I need sways, bushings and coils.

But I am thinking I also need to reduce unsprung weight and maybe look for ways to lose a few more pounds in the car like Doc is doing. And as previously mentioned I want to lose weight too. The cheapest mod of all and good for you.

Now I am almost sorry I did not go with a base 1SS. I don't think I would miss the 2SS or RS stuff. I could have used the rest of that money to build my own version of the Z28. The way it should be built.

[livefr33ordie]

I too debated the 1SS / 2SS RS issue. I test drove both the day I purchased my car about 4 times each. What made me choose the 2SS was the fact that this would be my daily driver. I wanted to be spoiled. I would have missed the luxury items.

[BMR guy]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

You can follow his build here:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45165

What is cool is that he is going to have his Camaro weight in Mustang territory. It's like adding power.

I wonder if the 1SS is lighter than the 2SS to start with.

Would love to see just how light you could get one of these cars without compromising the daily driveability aspect. If Doc's at 3700 now, a couple of lightweight seats and a tubular K-member could probably get the car down around 3600!

[Doc]

Originally Posted by BMR guy

Would love to see just how light you could get one of these cars without compromising the daily driveability aspect. If Doc's at 3700 now, a couple of lightweight seats and a tubular K-member could probably get the car down around 3600!

Already been looking at lighter seats. Do you guys have said K-member available and how much weight savings is there with it?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Yes, this was a really cool comparison you guys put together. I was surprised to see the Mustang had such a HP advantage, yet the Camaro overcame that deficit to outperform the Mustang. That event and "The book" helped me make my Camaro selection over the 5.0 Mustang.

Why does the Camaro have such a heat soak problem where the Mustang does not?

I know the cars are close on the track. I was wondering here if a modified Camaro could capture that elusive handling feel that can make a car fun to drive. The Mustang has it, the stock Camaro, while a good handling car in my opinion, feels a little more truck-like. I know I need sways, bushings and coils.

But I am thinking I also need to reduce unsprung weight and maybe look for ways to lose a few more pounds in the car like Doc is doing. And as previously mentioned I want to lose weight too. The cheapest mod of all and good for you.

Now I am almost sorry I did not go with a base 1SS. I don't think I would miss the 2SS or RS stuff. I could have used the rest of that money to build my own version of the Z28. The way it should be built.

Lighter wheels do make a significant difference.

The Pedders USA Camaro is absolutely fun to drive. What I think throws off the magazine people is they like the three link solid rear axle. The car is easy to get sideways and they tend to think that is fast. At the Optima Challenge in 2008 Tanner Foust drifted a prepared Mustang through the autocross. The crowd thought it was amazingly fast with lots of oohs and ahhhs. Then they posted his time and it was slow. Paul Tracy ran the autocross in the Pedders USA Camaro. I was in awe as were a few in the crowd. Most yawned until they saw the time.

The Mustang is light. It is easy to throw around. If we were to run 20 laps, the car of choice would be the Camaro. It literally whispers in y9our ear and tells you what it is doing and wants to do. The Mustang doesn't talk at all. The rear end just swings around.

We have tweaked the Mustang rear suspension. When we run it in the spring, it will be faster than the Camaro.

The GM computer is 'smarter' than the Ford computer and does not pull out timing as aggressively as the GM black box. The new Z28 with an LSA is what we are waiting for. Air flow / cooling will be better. There will be less heat soak and more power. It will be faster than the Mustang.

[Doc]

When I was driving in the 70's I chose the style of finesse and control instead of brute force and muscle. The differences are dramatic. The muscle approach LOOKS impressive with lots of sliding, tire smoke and fish-tailing. Looks like you're tearing up the track but in reality you're tearing up your tires and car. Guys that muscled their cars around tended to break things a lot.

When I drove the track it looked like I was out for a Sunday drive (I actually had one guy tell me that) but I would get shocked looks when my times were posted. I'd be right at the top times. The spectators liked the power guys because they put on a show, but they were never actually the fastest.

[Merc]

Originally Posted by ssmike

So this would suggest using your level 1 kit plus rear cradle inserts, correct? My only concern is ride quality with lowering springs. How do the BMR 1" springs affect ride quality?

I just did the whole BMR deal on Pumpkin and my initial impressions are two thumbs up. No real sacrafice in ride quality.

[Apex Motorsports]

Originally Posted by mercuryman96

I just did the whole BMR deal on Pumpkin and my initial impressions are two thumbs up. No real sacrafice in ride quality.

Customers are always skeptical when we tell them that the impact on ride quality is minimal, but, there you go.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Doc

When I was driving in the 70's I chose the style of finesse and control instead of brute force and muscle. The differences are dramatic. The muscle approach LOOKS impressive with lots of sliding, tire smoke and fish-tailing. Looks like you're tearing up the track but in reality you're tearing up your tires and car. Guys that muscled their cars around tended to break things a lot.

When I drove the track it looked like I was out for a Sunday drive (I actually had one guy tell me that) but I would get shocked looks when my times were posted. I'd be right at the top times. The spectators liked the power guys because they put on a show, but they were never actually the fastest.

Smooth is fast. Well done Doc

[Doc]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Smooth is fast. Well done Doc

Thanks Pete. You going to be at CF2? I would love to finally meet you and see the Pedder's Camaro.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Doc

Thanks Pete. You going to be at CF2? I would love to finally meet you and see the Pedder's Camaro.

I will be there, but you won't see the Pedders Camaro unless I get very very early Z28, I sold it in December to get good value before they announced the HP Edition, Z28 or whatever. We'll have a couple of well done cars at thee Fest. I can't go naked.

[BMR guy]

Originally Posted by Doc

Already been looking at lighter seats. Do you guys have said K-member available and how much weight savings is there with it?

It's on the drawing board but not until later this year. The factory K-member is massive so there are plenty of ways to get it lighter. At a glance I would say we could probably save 20-25 lbs. on a street unit with integrated motor mounts (would eliminate the bulky hydraulic mounts) and maybe another 8-10 lbs. on a lightweight drag race version...

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

The IRS does more to improve comfort and refinement than it does handling on a nicely-maintained track. Race the two cars over a pitted track, and that's where the IRS shines.

Nevertheless...there's some work to do on the SS 'feel'. It's not at all bad...but as it's been pointed out, others feel better. Hey...Ford's had well over 45 years to work with their SRA...and considering this is Chevy's first shot at an IRS Camaro, I'd say they did a good job!! Practice makes perfect, right?

....the 'FE4' SS suspension setup we reported about some time ago ought to help....


EDIT: Doc, nice writeup.

That's about the best write-up I can remember that wasn't from a Sponsor or Vendor. MANY KUDOS!!!

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I will be there, but you won't see the Pedders Camaro unless I get very very early Z28, I sold it in December to get good value before they announced the HP Edition, Z28 or whatever. We'll have a couple of well done cars at thee Fest. I can't go naked.

Whoa whoa whoa... You sold it?!!! WTF?!!! You must be pretty confident in Z28!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by radz28

Whoa whoa whoa... You sold it?!!! WTF?!!! You must be pretty confident in Z28!