Taking my daily driver to my first track day - brake pad recommendations? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

VroomVroom · 03-19-2015, 12:02 AM

Hi,

2010 2SS stock Camaro, 30k miles. Beautiful condition, and I'd like to keep it that way! But... it's too much fun to drive to keep off the track. I've got some questions that I am hoping the group here can help me with as we head to our first track day. I don't plan on driving the crud out of it, but I do want to have a good time without worrying about busting/boiling anything. This car is also my daily driver, so it needs to be able to keep its track gear on for a week or two before/after track days (and at least 200 miles to the track and back) until I have time to take it to someone to swap out bits and pieces. It's got a brand new set of the Pirelli P-Zeros it came with that will be broken-in but still have tons of tread for the track.

I'm planning on bleeding the brake lines and replacing with HT brake fluid, probably the Motul RBF600 stuff. I'm planning on having the 30k service done at the same time, and they will replace/change whatever I want replaced. So I know that I need the brake fluid at a minimum. I've been told that this would also be a good time to replace the brake lines with stainless steel lines. For someone who is going to do a few track days a year, is this worth the expense? From what I've seen, the line kits look cheap ($130-150) and I don't know what the labor would be. Comments? To switch to ss or not to switch? For the low number of track days I anticipate, is this a needless expense? If I switch it, will it affect the "daily driveability" of the car? I am generally very easy on brakes.

Then the tricky part- brake pads. Sounds like there's no good "crossover" pad that I can use for track days and keep on for regular driving, so that's out. However, I'm getting a 50/50 split- half the opinions I get tell me that I should get track pads put on and then taken off, but the other half tell me that some track pads will be bad for my rotors and that the Camaro OEM pads will be just fine as long as I still have 1/4" plus on there. Has anyone here done a track day/CDE with the OEM brake pads? I'm looking for information to help me determine how to maximize enjoyment of the track day without turning my car into a rotor-shredding machine that is going to need new brake parts immediately...

I also want an honest opinion about paint chips resulting from a track day- the guys tell me I can just put painters tape over as much of the front as I want to protect it. Is that a major concern? Not that it will change my mind, but I need to steel myself for the first scratch/dent/ding if that's going to be the case...

Only other issue is finding a helmet, I'm female and would like to find a store that carries helmets I can actually try on... suggestions in Nor Cal?

Sorry for the novel, hope there is some good expertise here- I found lots of info on track day brake pads, but very little on what to get for a daily driver that is going to the track. Thanks!

762ch · 03-22-2015, 08:57 PM

I did my first track day on Friday at Thunderhill, I didn't do any prep besides checking pad thickness.

The stock stuff is more then enough for your first track day, I beat on my car pretty hard and the brakes never faded or felt mushy. However I do notice an increased pedal travel, due to heavily worn brake pads. I got to a point where the stock pirrelli p-zeros were shredding and rubber was coming off of them the way slicks do. They did very well for stock tires, I will be running them again.

If you don't have a helmet some places will let you borrow one, they hold your ID and give you a loaner helmet.

backeddy · 03-22-2015, 10:21 PM

I track at least twice a month, I would stay with stock pads, change out to motul and go have fun! Until you learn the track and your car, stock stuff is fine. The brembo's are great pads, but you will get a lot of dust, just make sure you clean wheels afterwards. Tracks do tend to get debris and pebbles flying, but no worse than the roads around here after a rain shower. I see you are in SF, so where/when you going?

LimaCharlie · 03-22-2015, 11:18 PM

I recently replaced my stock, factory brake pads with Hawk HPS pads. The Hawk HPS pads are a great street pad but they're not ideal for significant track use. I've been on a couple road courses here in Arizona and I think the factory, OEM pads had less fade when they got hot. The OEM pads seemed to have a better initial bite too. The only good things I've noticed about the Hawk HPS pads is they produce less dust and seem to last longer.
I've experimented with different street tires and the Pirelli P-Zero's are great for street and track duty. They have great traction once they heat up and the sidewall has minimal flex. The only negative thing is they wear down quicker than other Summer street tires.

rocknroll_jeph · 03-23-2015, 12:45 AM

I just took my car to the track for the first time this weekend and I am still brimming with excitement. It is hard to go back to my job (kindergarten teacher) and become normal again! My car is "just" the V6, but it did the job. Anyway, I have changed to EBC pads, Goodridge stainless brake lines and put in DOT 4 fluid. I felt no fade the entire weekend and was very confident the entire time. My wife said not to worry about the pads, because I can just get new ones when these wear out so my second day I abused them more than the first day. The P-Zeros which I was complaining about in the winter worked perfectly after getting warmed up, I really had no idea they provided so much grip in the corners! It was in the high 60's, dry and sunny.

My Camaro is also my daily driver and this set up works better than stock in normal conditions as well, so whether or not it worth it is all up to you. For me it was very much worth is as my car is better than it was before- safer and more personalized for my styles and preferences.

VroomVroom · 04-02-2015, 03:50 PM

Thanks all for the very helpful comments! Heading up to Thunderhill. Replaced brake fluid with the Motul RBF600 and replaced my worn/low front brake pads with brand new stock ones, and it sounds like that will be good for now (and fixed the pesky oil leak that mechanic finally found!)

I can see replacing pads in the long run, but want to see how stock stuff feels before changing things- if I change too much right away, I won't get to appreciate how much more awesome it feels when I upgrade things!

Thanks again for the replies!

Norm Peterson · 04-02-2015, 06:47 PM

I will welcome you in advance to the addiction . . . and the car in my avatar is my daily driver too.

About pads - HPS pads are in no way appropriate for track days beyond a cautious introduction. HP+ are better, but have a big appetite for iron, meaning your rotors. I'm a fan of the Carbotech XP series, and the Carbotech compounds are compatible with one another. Meaning you don't need to have one dedicated set of rotors for your street driving and another for your track time, or you get involved with sanding/otherwise scouring the pad deposits from each kind of pad off before installing the other set. That's if you go with swapping between street and track pads. If you can live with the dust and some noise, XP8's and XP10's are otherwise streetable, meaning that they still bite pretty good even when they're stone cold, and they don't seem to be much harder on your rotors than HPS. Many other track pad compounds do not work well until some heat has been built up in them (not nice for the first stop of the day on your way to work), and many are very harsh as far as rotor wear is concerned.

If you haven't done the lines yet, that can wait.

Sooner or later you'll probably want a somewhat more aggressive alignment, with front camber slightly more negative than Chevy's preferred settings - if only out of pity for your front tires' outer shoulders. This is a fairly common topic in the Road course/Track/Autocross and Suspension/Brakes/Chassis sections.

Through all of this and being on the steepest part of your learning curve, remember to have fun.

Norm

VroomVroom · 04-03-2015, 07:39 PM

So this is my (maybe dumb) question - I'm mechanically inclined, but don't have a set of car tools or a lift/jacks. It really sounds like the best option is to have a set of track pads and rotors and a set of street pads and rotors- but if I can't change them myself, how do I find someone to switch them back and forth on a regular basis without running out of money? I haven't found a good mechanic yet (Redwood City/mid SF peninsula anyone?) and the dealer mechanic (who I at least feel is competent, but charges accordingly) wants something like $600 to swap out pads.

Is switching pads and rotors something people do at the track itself?

I feel like I need to find friends with garage lifts...

Oh, and I don't like brake noise- part of the appeal of the Camaro is that people who don't know anything about cars (and little kids too) still recognize it's awesomeness, and that is totally ruined if it shrieks as it stops. Sounds like something is wrong to the unknowing. :-(

Gruby2k · 04-28-2015, 08:40 AM

I have a set of rotors and pads for the track. Doing the swap is pretty easy now that I've done it a few times and takes about 20 minutes a wheel and only requires basic tools. If you had no tools at all it would cost you less than $100 bucks to get everything you need for the swap, thats if you get the low profile jack and stand set from walmart.
I've seen people changing pads at the track but not both. There are a couple promblems I can see with doing it at the track: you'd be pressed for time (track days start early), you'd still need all the same tools but now you'd have to get them to the track too, and at the end of the day when your exhausted, you'd have to wait for everything to cool down before doing the swap and driving home. The only pads I've used so far are the Hawk HP+ pads and they don't make any noise before going to the track. However, they do occasionaly squeel on the way home but I wear that like a badge of honor!
Another advantage of doing this yourself besides the huge money savings is that when you get a chance to do the swap back to your street stuff, it's a good opportunity while you got the wheel off to really get it clean because it will no dought be caked in track rubber and brake dust.
If you do decide to do a swap for the track, don't do like I did, take burnishing (degassing, or bedding) your pads seriously before going hard on them. I went hard on my bran new pads and rotors after doing the swap the first time and took a trip to the sand box because of it.

03-19-2015, 12:02 AM	#1
VroomVroom Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: SF Posts: 22 View My Garage	Taking my daily driver to my first track day - brake pad recommendations? Hi, 2010 2SS stock Camaro, 30k miles. Beautiful condition, and I'd like to keep it that way! But... it's too much fun to drive to keep off the track. I've got some questions that I am hoping the group here can help me with as we head to our first track day. I don't plan on driving the crud out of it, but I do want to have a good time without worrying about busting/boiling anything. This car is also my daily driver, so it needs to be able to keep its track gear on for a week or two before/after track days (and at least 200 miles to the track and back) until I have time to take it to someone to swap out bits and pieces. It's got a brand new set of the Pirelli P-Zeros it came with that will be broken-in but still have tons of tread for the track. I'm planning on bleeding the brake lines and replacing with HT brake fluid, probably the Motul RBF600 stuff. I'm planning on having the 30k service done at the same time, and they will replace/change whatever I want replaced. So I know that I need the brake fluid at a minimum. I've been told that this would also be a good time to replace the brake lines with stainless steel lines. For someone who is going to do a few track days a year, is this worth the expense? From what I've seen, the line kits look cheap ($130-150) and I don't know what the labor would be. Comments? To switch to ss or not to switch? For the low number of track days I anticipate, is this a needless expense? If I switch it, will it affect the "daily driveability" of the car? I am generally very easy on brakes. Then the tricky part- brake pads. Sounds like there's no good "crossover" pad that I can use for track days and keep on for regular driving, so that's out. However, I'm getting a 50/50 split- half the opinions I get tell me that I should get track pads put on and then taken off, but the other half tell me that some track pads will be bad for my rotors and that the Camaro OEM pads will be just fine as long as I still have 1/4" plus on there. Has anyone here done a track day/CDE with the OEM brake pads? I'm looking for information to help me determine how to maximize enjoyment of the track day without turning my car into a rotor-shredding machine that is going to need new brake parts immediately... I also want an honest opinion about paint chips resulting from a track day- the guys tell me I can just put painters tape over as much of the front as I want to protect it. Is that a major concern? Not that it will change my mind, but I need to steel myself for the first scratch/dent/ding if that's going to be the case... Only other issue is finding a helmet, I'm female and would like to find a store that carries helmets I can actually try on... suggestions in Nor Cal? Sorry for the novel, hope there is some good expertise here- I found lots of info on track day brake pads, but very little on what to get for a daily driver that is going to the track. Thanks!

03-22-2015, 11:18 PM	#4
LimaCharlie Drives: 2011 Camaro SS/RS - 2004 Silverado Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,989	I recently replaced my stock, factory brake pads with Hawk HPS pads. The Hawk HPS pads are a great street pad but they're not ideal for significant track use. I've been on a couple road courses here in Arizona and I think the factory, OEM pads had less fade when they got hot. The OEM pads seemed to have a better initial bite too. The only good things I've noticed about the Hawk HPS pads is they produce less dust and seem to last longer. I've experimented with different street tires and the Pirelli P-Zero's are great for street and track duty. They have great traction once they heat up and the sidewall has minimal flex. The only negative thing is they wear down quicker than other Summer street tires. __________________ 2011 Summit White Camaro 1SS/RS -6.2 LS3, TR6060, 3.45, G80 2004 Black Silverado 1500 2WD Regular Cab, Short Bed -5.3 LM7, 4L60E, 3.42, G80 2014 White Caprice PPV -6.0 L77, 6L80E, 2.92, G80

04-02-2015, 06:47 PM	#7
Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Eastern Time Zone Posts: 6,990	I will welcome you in advance to the addiction . . . and the car in my avatar is my daily driver too. About pads - HPS pads are in no way appropriate for track days beyond a cautious introduction. HP+ are better, but have a big appetite for iron, meaning your rotors. I'm a fan of the Carbotech XP series, and the Carbotech compounds are compatible with one another. Meaning you don't need to have one dedicated set of rotors for your street driving and another for your track time, or you get involved with sanding/otherwise scouring the pad deposits from each kind of pad off before installing the other set. That's if you go with swapping between street and track pads. If you can live with the dust and some noise, XP8's and XP10's are otherwise streetable, meaning that they still bite pretty good even when they're stone cold, and they don't seem to be much harder on your rotors than HPS. Many other track pad compounds do not work well until some heat has been built up in them (not nice for the first stop of the day on your way to work), and many are very harsh as far as rotor wear is concerned. If you haven't done the lines yet, that can wait. Sooner or later you'll probably want a somewhat more aggressive alignment, with front camber slightly more negative than Chevy's preferred settings - if only out of pity for your front tires' outer shoulders. This is a fairly common topic in the Road course/Track/Autocross and Suspension/Brakes/Chassis sections. Through all of this and being on the steepest part of your learning curve, remember to have fun. Norm Last edited by Norm Peterson; 04-04-2015 at 08:06 AM. Reason: spelng

04-03-2015, 07:39 PM	#8
VroomVroom Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: SF Posts: 22 View My Garage	So this is my (maybe dumb) question - I'm mechanically inclined, but don't have a set of car tools or a lift/jacks. It really sounds like the best option is to have a set of track pads and rotors and a set of street pads and rotors- but if I can't change them myself, how do I find someone to switch them back and forth on a regular basis without running out of money? I haven't found a good mechanic yet (Redwood City/mid SF peninsula anyone?) and the dealer mechanic (who I at least feel is competent, but charges accordingly) wants something like $600 to swap out pads. Is switching pads and rotors something people do at the track itself? I feel like I need to find friends with garage lifts... Oh, and I don't like brake noise- part of the appeal of the Camaro is that people who don't know anything about cars (and little kids too) still recognize it's awesomeness, and that is totally ruined if it shrieks as it stops. Sounds like something is wrong to the unknowing. :-( Last edited by VroomVroom; 04-03-2015 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Added my dislike for brake noise

03-22-2015, 08:57 PM	#2
762ch Drives: 2011 2SS Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Sacramento Posts: 341	I did my first track day on Friday at Thunderhill, I didn't do any prep besides checking pad thickness. The stock stuff is more then enough for your first track day, I beat on my car pretty hard and the brakes never faded or felt mushy. However I do notice an increased pedal travel, due to heavily worn brake pads. I got to a point where the stock pirrelli p-zeros were shredding and rubber was coming off of them the way slicks do. They did very well for stock tires, I will be running them again. If you don't have a helmet some places will let you borrow one, they hold your ID and give you a loaner helmet.

03-22-2015, 10:21 PM	#3
backeddy Banned Drives: 2011 Boxster Spyder (best car ever) Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: San Jose, Ca Posts: 1,529	I track at least twice a month, I would stay with stock pads, change out to motul and go have fun! Until you learn the track and your car, stock stuff is fine. The brembo's are great pads, but you will get a lot of dust, just make sure you clean wheels afterwards. Tracks do tend to get debris and pebbles flying, but no worse than the roads around here after a rain shower. I see you are in SF, so where/when you going?

03-23-2015, 12:45 AM	#5
rocknroll_jeph Drives: 11 Camaro V6 RS, 03 BMW Z4 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Beijing & Michigan Posts: 476 View My Garage	I just took my car to the track for the first time this weekend and I am still brimming with excitement. It is hard to go back to my job (kindergarten teacher) and become normal again! My car is "just" the V6, but it did the job. Anyway, I have changed to EBC pads, Goodridge stainless brake lines and put in DOT 4 fluid. I felt no fade the entire weekend and was very confident the entire time. My wife said not to worry about the pads, because I can just get new ones when these wear out so my second day I abused them more than the first day. The P-Zeros which I was complaining about in the winter worked perfectly after getting warmed up, I really had no idea they provided so much grip in the corners! It was in the high 60's, dry and sunny. My Camaro is also my daily driver and this set up works better than stock in normal conditions as well, so whether or not it worth it is all up to you. For me it was very much worth is as my car is better than it was before- safer and more personalized for my styles and preferences.

04-02-2015, 03:50 PM	#6
VroomVroom Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: SF Posts: 22 View My Garage	Thanks all for the very helpful comments! Heading up to Thunderhill. Replaced brake fluid with the Motul RBF600 and replaced my worn/low front brake pads with brand new stock ones, and it sounds like that will be good for now (and fixed the pesky oil leak that mechanic finally found!) I can see replacing pads in the long run, but want to see how stock stuff feels before changing things- if I change too much right away, I won't get to appreciate how much more awesome it feels when I upgrade things! Thanks again for the replies!

04-28-2015, 08:40 AM	#9
Gruby2k Drives: '14 SS/1LE Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Alabama Posts: 46 View My Garage	I have a set of rotors and pads for the track. Doing the swap is pretty easy now that I've done it a few times and takes about 20 minutes a wheel and only requires basic tools. If you had no tools at all it would cost you less than $100 bucks to get everything you need for the swap, thats if you get the low profile jack and stand set from walmart. I've seen people changing pads at the track but not both. There are a couple promblems I can see with doing it at the track: you'd be pressed for time (track days start early), you'd still need all the same tools but now you'd have to get them to the track too, and at the end of the day when your exhausted, you'd have to wait for everything to cool down before doing the swap and driving home. The only pads I've used so far are the Hawk HP+ pads and they don't make any noise before going to the track. However, they do occasionaly squeel on the way home but I wear that like a badge of honor! Another advantage of doing this yourself besides the huge money savings is that when you get a chance to do the swap back to your street stuff, it's a good opportunity while you got the wheel off to really get it clean because it will no dought be caked in track rubber and brake dust. If you do decide to do a swap for the track, don't do like I did, take burnishing (degassing, or bedding) your pads seriously before going hard on them. I went hard on my bran new pads and rotors after doing the swap the first time and took a trip to the sand box because of it.