MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack - Page 28 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

8cd03gro · 06-28-2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Don't agree with that... at all. If they matched the GT500 cornering speed in the ZL1, it would felt like a walk in the park. Oversteer and understeer become greatly more noticeable at the limits.

And then the zl1 would have been like 5 seconds behind. . .

I guess you probably have more racing experience than Randy and talked to him after the review to confirm that he reneged his statements after viewing the lap data, right? If the car understeers at the limit, it understeers. If the car oversteers at the limit, it oversteers. Regardless of where those limits are for each respective car, it's still a characteristic of the chassis and suspension dynamics. Randy preferred the balance of the gt500 as he stated.

Do you think the zl1 was pushed further beyond it's limits than the gt500 or they were both pushed to their limits? If you believe the former then it looks like the gt500 has more on the table, if you believe the latter than Randy just prefers the balance of the gt500 at the limits.

PistonsFan · 06-28-2012, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

And then the zl1 would have been like 5 seconds behind. . .

I guess you probably have more racing experience than Randy and talked to him after the review to confirm that he reneged his statements after viewing the lap data, right? If the car understeers at the limit, it understeers. If the car oversteers at the limit, it oversteers. Regardless of where those limits are for each respective car, it's still a characteristic of the chassis and suspension dynamics. Undesteer is still understeer and oversteer is still oversteer.

Do you think the zl1 was pushed further beyond it's limits than the gt500 or they were both pushed to their limits? If you believe the former then it looks like the gt500 has more on the table, if you believe the latter than Randy just prefers the balance of the gt500 at the limits.

Both of these cars have understeer... one more than the other. The ZL1's MRC and PTM let you push the car harder without being punished. As has been said over and over... the ZL1 is easier to drive at the limit.

Read the other reviews - their feedback is completely opposite on this topic.

8cd03gro · 06-28-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Both of these cars have understeer... one more than the other. The ZL1's MRC and PTM let you push the car harder without being punished. As has been said over and over... the ZL1 is easier to drive at the limit.

Read the other reviews - their feedback is completely opposite on this topic.

And only one other review has taken these cars out on the track. . . the video is pretty clear that Randy preferred the balance of the Mustang. That doesn't mean it's faster in the turns or easier to drive, or even that everyone else will prefer it, but he liked the balance better. Disagree with it if you want, but discounting it because you don't like it and assuming the lap data would change his opinion is a joke.

sasquash1984 · 06-28-2012, 06:29 PM

Zl1 ftw, nice video

sasquash1984 · 06-28-2012, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ1034

I knew it all along, Camaro is best overall. Wait until I put the 700HP upgrade on it.

Winning

DanSS24 · 06-28-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

And only one other review has taken these cars out on the track. . . the video is pretty clear that Randy preferred the balance of the Mustang. That doesn't mean it's faster in the turns or easier to drive, or even that everyone else will prefer it, but he liked the balance better. Disagree with it if you want, but discounting it because you don't like it and assuming the lap data would change his opinion is a joke.

And there you have it people...it's all opinions. So that being said, respect other peoples opinions, but choose what ever car appeases to you...AND MOD THE HECK OF IT! I guarantee that no enthusiast is ever going to keep his or her car bone stock.

PistonsFan · 06-28-2012, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

And only one other review has taken these cars out on the track. . . the video is pretty clear that Randy preferred the balance of the Mustang. That doesn't mean it's faster in the turns or easier to drive, or even that everyone else will prefer it, but he liked the balance better. Disagree with it if you want, but discounting it because you don't like it and assuming the lap data would change his opinion is a joke.

Actually, there has been 4 different track comparisons already.

Since what I say doesn't matter to you, I'll point you to the below excerpts...

This feeback comes from another profession racecar driver:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutomobileMagazine

Entering the turns, the Shelby displays a boatload of body roll. That's not completely surprising given the GT500's humble origins, but I expected more from the Bilstein two-mode adjustable shocks, which are part of the $3495 Performance Package. The car wallows like a stuck pig and I desperately attempted to load up the outside wheels on corner entry. Despite my best efforts, I couldn't calm the Shelby to precisely attack a corner. To make matters worse, the understeer in the fast turns was significant, meaning I was unable to carry the speed through the important fast sections of the lap. Power down, however, was solid and when the rear did break loose, the car was easily manageable.

It looked like the chubbier ZL1 was fighting a losing battle, but as I entered the first few turns, I noticed something significant. I felt like I was driving a sports car. The steering was sharp and responsive and the car reacted instantaneously to my actions. The body roll is a fraction of the GT500's, which is simply titanic. I began smiling. The ZL1 was magnificent to drive and already I was blown away. The car rotates effortlessly mid-corner and power down is predictable and with poise. It oozed with confidence, daring me to push even harder. Chevrolet's Performance Traction Management has five distinct settings and frankly it's overkill. I switched it off entirely

Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...#ixzz1z8LYx9u8

oortcloud · 06-28-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 74z28

If you read the article by the third lap it hasnt even caught the GT500 yet. The GT500 had just slowed down enough that it was only running with the best time of the ZL. What kind of skewed lodgic is it that a car running faster for 2 laps, then vertually the same on the third are even at tha point and getting passed?

How hard are you going to continue to push in a situation like this? It becomes a safety issue. "Serious fade" are the words they use. I don't think they had any choice but to take a break and let the gt500 cool down. Meanwhile the zl1 was putting down laps with confidence and very consistent times. I'm not trying to be biased. This is basically what they wrote in the review.

Angrybird 12 · 06-28-2012, 06:47 PM

Where in the world do they run a 3 lap race? The only reason they only ran 3 laps was to say it was too close to call. Actually the writing was on the wall, with the Shelby getting slower each lap and the ZL1 being more consistent it was obvious that in a real race the ZL1 would not take many laps to overtake and pull away from the Shelby. They want to create the illusion that these two cars are equals on the track. But are they in reality? In any count they are both great cars and deserve their place in automotive history.

evolve · 06-28-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanSS24

And there you have it people...it's all opinions. So that being said, respect other peoples opinions, but choose what ever car appeases to you...AND MOD THE HECK OF IT! I guarantee that no enthusiast is ever going to keep his or her car bone stock.

lol, you hit the nail on the head here

v6sonoma · 06-28-2012, 06:57 PM

They are both great achievements from either brand. Al should be and most definitely is proud of what he and the rest of the Camaro team has done. This car is a beast on the track for sure. You can mod these cars to death and the battle will rage on but straight out the gate the Camaro is the better car. As it is you need to add $6k worth of options on the GT to track it. Of course if straight lines are all you care about then you'll have the best car ford has ever built.

tt335ci03cobra · 06-28-2012, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papawattz

Besides , your opinion doesn't count, your on a camaro forum, while you own a douchestang

Cheers; I was like what in the hell is he on about, then I saw you own an svt contour and I got the sarcasm. You got me for a sec haha.

74z28 · 06-28-2012, 07:35 PM

Other than opinions ( and we all know what opinions are like ) What merits your "Better" lable. Its sure not staticstics. Just wondering.

PQ · 06-28-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VenomenonSVT

Yes. I don't understand why this is an argument anyways. The Shelby won the braking tests, and won the track tests. So let's let that be that shall we? . . The guys who are going to track these cars will buy bigger brakes, tires, etc. . . Simple fact.

The reason it matters is because I read the article and watched the video.

The Shelby stopped quicker on a test from 60mph.

Then BOTH drivers said the biggest difference is the Shelby brakes were horrible. And couldn't stand up over time.

I just made a comment based on the stock car and the article that this thread is about.

06-28-2012, 06:29 PM	#382
sasquash1984 502 RWHP N/A Drives: The yeti Join Date: May 2009 Location: Saginaw/ Ft Worth TX Posts: 3,085 View My Garage	Zl1 ftw, nice video __________________ factory motor factory trans, Gpi ss4 cam stock heads ported and milled, full exhaust, circle d 5c 4000 triple disk, 3:91 rear end with posi mod, cai, bmr derlin rear diff bushins, bmr derlin cradle bushins, bmr trailing arms, toe rods with bushings, and bmr anti extreme sway bar. Weld rt-s 17x5 fronts and 17X10 rears on mickey thompson et street r's

06-28-2012, 06:47 PM	#387
Angrybird 12 7 year Cancer Survivor! Drives: 17 Cruze RS, 07 G6 GT, 99 Astro Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 21,547	Where in the world do they run a 3 lap race? The only reason they only ran 3 laps was to say it was too close to call. Actually the writing was on the wall, with the Shelby getting slower each lap and the ZL1 being more consistent it was obvious that in a real race the ZL1 would not take many laps to overtake and pull away from the Shelby. They want to create the illusion that these two cars are equals on the track. But are they in reality? In any count they are both great cars and deserve their place in automotive history. __________________ Cancer's a bitch! Enjoy life while you can! LIVE, LOVE, DRIVE... The Bird is the word!

06-28-2012, 06:57 PM	#389
v6sonoma Drives: 2010 SS RS Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Providence, RI Posts: 8,108 View My Garage	They are both great achievements from either brand. Al should be and most definitely is proud of what he and the rest of the Camaro team has done. This car is a beast on the track for sure. You can mod these cars to death and the battle will rage on but straight out the gate the Camaro is the better car. As it is you need to add $6k worth of options on the GT to track it. Of course if straight lines are all you care about then you'll have the best car ford has ever built. __________________ Mods: BBK Intake, BBK LT's and High Flow Cats, Corsa Cat-back exhaust, Hurst short throw shifter, SLP skip-shift eliminator. 7/1/09 Placed order for IOM/IO int/ SS/RS 6M 9/26/09 Took delivery!

06-28-2012, 07:35 PM	#391
74z28 Drives: 1974 Z-28 Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 26	Better car for what? Other than opinions ( and we all know what opinions are like ) What merits your "Better" lable. Its sure not staticstics. Just wondering.