MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[tt335ci03cobra]

I think mod mills are liked for their response to boost. I wanna say its because you can have the tune progressively build/drop/stabilize cam timing and static compression.

Can this be done as well in the tune for ohv mills? If so then I can't think of many other benefits to the mod mills.

I wanna say cam timing is the biggest factor because my buddy's with boosted ohv's have had a hard time getting the cam, valves, springs and lifters dialed in unison to work at a good efficiency.

For comparison, my mill just bolted together and made a lot of power. 03 cobra heads and cams (mild), 5.4 block, twin 57's. There's room for more if I throw fully ported heads with aggressive turbo cams and twin 64's with meth, about 1200whp, but I have enough hassle getting traction with the power I have and the cash spent would likely rarely see any use unless I'm going 140mph+ and can get it to hook.

Other than can timing and more tuning perimeters, mod mills are bigger, wider, heavier and harder to work on. I think their saving grace is easy power efficiency when boosted.

Please lemme know if I'm wrong, I don't work often on ohv's.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by horizon670

I just loved what he said : ............. the Brakes go on vacation !...... for the GT500 !

and yes, you don't drive each 1/4 mile at a time !

Haha ya that car had some maintenance needs. I've seen a few videos up by revan racing and a few other 2013 gt500's tearing up the track with 660-700whp on stock brakes, there a clip a few posts up as well.

I think any enthusiast with a new gt500 should do a pad and fluid change right after the first track that the stock setup starts to feel weak.

I remember my brembo's getting fade after 5 hard weeks of driving, did a dot4 and ceramic pad setup with stainless lines for about $300, best confidence mod I've ever done. I had bought the 4 piston cobra r kit from ford racing and the pads it came with we're borderline economy pads. ;^( coulda died if I was an idiot and just rallied everywhere at max powerz like a ricer. First time I felt fade; I changed, bled and inspected the whole brake system.

[VTXFrank]

Originally Posted by stymie

For the hard core driving enthusiast attempting to defeat radar, ECMs like the AGM-88 High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile (HARM) could be deployed with wonderful results.

Sheiiiiit! With Japan's Fukushima Reactor #4 having the issues it does, and especially if they have another quake that further damages that reactor with all the stored rods, any HARM fired on the planet will immediately head to Asia.

Originally Posted by NMSS#12

Let's all take this view of the match up. The average miles per hour in the States is 22. The average street is considered bumpy . My ZL1 literally drives like a Town Car in these conditions. The ZL1 is easier to drive than my 2011 SS. I rented a new Shelby when traveling. The ergonomics of that car were not nearly as friendly as the Camaro. The fit and finish was pretty weak. The ride in the Shelby was not anywhere close to comfortable, it took bumps in a jarring mess. I could have cracked a tooth on one road. To drive fast, the car must not bother you over bumps at any speed.

Wow, nice story bro. You make that up all by your lonesome?

Originally Posted by doc7000

There are no doubt Mustangs with Chevy Small Block V8 engines in them around, some people have felt the need for that swap. In fact i did a youtube search LS1 Mustang and got 14,300 videos (though how many of these are duplicates or videos of the same car I don't know). LS6 Mustang got 2,590 results, LS2 3,650,etc..... though when I look for a mod motor in a Camaro or a Ford motor in a Camaro I can't find any of those videos.

And you won't due to the narrow engine bays. The Mod motors are so wide, you'd have to do some major modifications to lower one between the fenders of a Camaro or other Chevy cars.

Originally Posted by horizon670

I just loved what he said : ............. the Brakes go on vacation !...... for the GT500 !

and yes, you don't drive each 1/4 mile at a time !

Very disappointing that the brakes go on lunch break so quickly. I'm sure that GT500 owners will address that issue with aftermarket parts pretty quick if they're tracking their cars.

As far as the "We don't drive a 1/4 mile at a time" statement goes, that's just a completely misleading, fanboyish statement that people use when they aren't on top in the performance categories. When do you EVER drive your car on the street like you do on a course like this one? You won't come anywhere near taxing the brakes like MT did in this review, so that point is a worthless and ignorant one to make.

Also, and don't get me wrong.....the ZL1 has some fantastic stock brakes compared to the GT500!!,.....but I wonder how well those brakes would hold up if the ZL1 had the same power numbers as the GT500? More power means having to reel in more forward energy which means physics wise, the GT500 outweighs the ZL1 when driven hard into a corner where late braking is preferred like on a road course or track. Higher entry speeds due to increased engine power means a LOT of heat.

Still though, I think Ford could, and should, have done a MUCH better job on the brakes.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Who's this torq fella? I was reading this story and wanted to smack him something fierce.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar131756.html

Anybody know if they've had a rematch? I really wanna see how races/grudge matches turn out, being these guys are ameatures my moneys on the z if he can keep it cool

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

Also, and don't get me wrong.....the ZL1 has some fantastic stock brakes compared to the GT500!!,.....but I wonder how well those brakes would hold up if the ZL1 had the same power numbers as the GT500? More power means having to reel in more forward energy which means physics wise, the GT500 outweighs the ZL1 when driven hard into a corner where late braking is preferred like on a road course or track. Higher entry speeds due to increased engine power means a LOT of heat.

Still though, I think Ford could, and should, have done a MUCH better job on the brakes.

There is only a 82hp difference in the cars, but the weight of the ZL1 pretty much negates that ...

[evolve]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Haha ya that car had some maintenance needs. I've seen a few videos up by revan racing and a few other 2013 gt500's tearing up the track with 660-700whp on stock brakes, there a clip a few posts up as well.

I think any enthusiast with a new gt500 should do a pad and fluid change right after the first track that the stock setup starts to feel weak.

I remember my brembo's getting fade after 5 hard weeks of driving, did a dot4 and ceramic pad setup with stainless lines for about $300, best confidence mod I've ever done. I had bought the 4 piston cobra r kit from ford racing and the pads it came with we're borderline economy pads. ;^( coulda died if I was an idiot and just rallied everywhere at max powerz like a ricer. First time I felt fade; I changed, bled and inspected the whole brake system.

Absolutely!!

[tt335ci03cobra]

Oh ya, I may not be the best at turning wrenches but even I figured out a 1 man brake bleed kit, pad change, and fluid change. Goes without saying but I think most people buying these cars would be able to as well. It's not like they have ridiculously complex systems like Porsche Caymens or m3's. Even those are workable but try need special tools.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by LeviG

I think some of this is also coming from the article on this site about the Lingenfelter ZL1 that they took to 200+ mph. It experinced heat soak, which initially hindered them from reaching their target speed. BUT this was on modified car built for top speed, not for circuit racing.

The more boost you run, the higher the temperatures. Temperature is lot more to difficult to manage for overdrive pulleys and high boost applications. The GT500 will have more difficulty managing temperature than the ZL1. They're running about twice the boost. The ZL1 is actually a conservative supercharger setup.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Ford at 15, z's at 9.

Chevy could rock that car to 650hp in a heart beat, they should but who's to tell them what to do.

A 700zr1 would be child's play as well, then none of the stable is overly out done except the z06, but it's plenty faster than a 650hp zl1 to begin with even in a straight line. Z06's are faster than 575whp 2011 gt500's so I'm sure they can more than handle 575whp zl1's.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I was being generous.

One of your fine attributes Zbro.

Originally Posted by LeviG

I gotta say, I honestly thought that comparing the ZL1 to the Boss was just stupid. I think the reason that ever happened in the first place was because the GT500 had'nt come out yet and people were just busting to compare the highest performance Camaro to the highest performance Mustang. It just didn't seem right to compare a 580 HP supercharged car to a, what, 440 HP car. I mean, serioulsy. A 140 HP difference and you're comparing these? While you're at it lets run my '95 Integra GSR against an NSX and compare the two to see which one is better! LOL

This whole argument of who thought what was fair is dumb because in the end, you're both just going call each other liars when you both say you thought this was unfair but that was fair. Its rediculous.

And where is the rule that says only N/A cars can be track ready? You know what a supercharger does? IT MAKES YOU GO FASTER! Which, when you're racing, on a track, is arguably a good thing. And besides, the boys who designed the ZL1 and GT500, who I'm willing to bet have better education and experience in racing cars AT A TRACK than you, dont seem to have a problem supercharging these cars and calling them track ready.

"Only a stupid person would take a supercharged car to a track"?? You obviously dont understand the concept of a race.

Not arguing.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by VTXFrank

Still though, I think Ford could, and should, have done a MUCH better job on the brakes.

True that, as if they didn't know what was coming from the competition. They had plenty of ample warning, time, and opportunity to address that shortfall in performance ability.

[Deki]

[QUOTE=TheReaper;5218673]Try one of the red cars.

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

And what if they both had the same suspension? Silly argument.

In any case, if we are looking for a domestic track star forget either the ZL1 or GT500 and buy yourself one of these.

Oh my God! That thing sounds amazing. I forgot all about the ZL1 and the GT500 as soon as that thing drove by.

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

True that, as if they didn't know what was coming from the competition. They had plenty of ample warning, time, and opportunity to address that shortfall in performance ability.

Ample time as in since 2007. That is how long brake fade has plagued those cars. Pretty disappointing for a base 55k price car. 3 laps is not extended track use, it should be able to do at least 3 laps before significant brake fade, let alone 1 lap.

[OldScoolCamaro]

The ZL1 does not have brake fade. The Mustang has break fade to the point that after one lap MT reported smelling the breaks cooking from the pits....

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

The ZL1 does not have brake fade. The Mustang has break fade to the point that after one lap MT reported smelling the breaks cooking from the pits....

Break fade has only been documented by Motortrend.The GT500 also doesn't have cooling ducts.