GT350 to MSRP at $47,870; R at $61,370

[xc_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by GretchenGotGrowl

So, I guess rifle-drilling the crank has been around a while, lol. Learn something new everyday.

http://performancebiz.com/features/f...ft-tech-part-2

May have read the same article but it's kinda cool how it is done. Definitely a technique used on race engines. Wonder if this means the crank might not last as long as a normal non drilled crankshaft?

Originally Posted by chain777

If you use the actual displacement (5.163L) it comes to 101.87.

Missed that bit and you are correct.

[BaylorCamaro]

Just did this mock up using GM's engine dyno chart and the Voodoo dyno chart that someone took a picture of. Numbers aren't perfect and are an estimate in some areas but should be pretty close.

While the initial numbers of the Voodoo look pretty good, it's the area under the curve that tell the whole story and it looks like the LS7 is a much more stout engine with the power. A lot less spiky and more predictable..

[Stingray]

Not putting down the Z/28 and its LS7 since I almost bought one but decided on a Stingray instead and then the Z06... absolutely no complaints.

The 2 principal factors I like in the voodoo is the broad TQ curve at 3500+ and the high-rev/breathability at the upper rpm's. Plus from all the info so far it seems to be that it'll be a great track and street machine combo with excellent midrange too and it's not just a single-minded beast like the Z/28. The GT350's weight compared to the 5th gen Z/28 is another big factor... no figures yet but it's a given it'll be less. I'm already 110% sure it'll be a huge improvement over my ex-Boss 302 so that's a no brainer for me.

Can't really go wrong with either cars, but for me it's the new Shelby... a better complete all-around package for my preference and moolah.

[xc_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Just did this mock up using GM's engine dyno chart and the Voodoo dyno chart that someone took a picture of. Numbers aren't perfect and are an estimate in some areas but should be pretty close.

While the initial numbers of the Voodoo look pretty good, it's the area under the curve that tell the whole story and it looks like the LS7 is a much more stout engine with the power. A lot less spiky and more predictable..

That's interesting how much stronger it is compared to the GT350 but I wonder just how use able it will be since most of the time I bet you'll be under 3k revs. That big jump from 3-3,500 revs in the torque looks like a bump for VTEC lol

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Just did this mock up using GM's engine dyno chart and the Voodoo dyno chart that someone took a picture of. Numbers aren't perfect and are an estimate in some areas but should be pretty close.

While the initial numbers of the Voodoo look pretty good, it's the area under the curve that tell the whole story and it looks like the LS7 is a much more stout engine with the power. A lot less spiky and more predictable..

Nice work but those graphs =/= comparable. The gt350 graph is scales with 550hp and 600tq iirc from the ford release. Also, you can easily tell that both vehicles power and torque crosses aren't at 5252rpms which they have to be because physics. The gt350's is crossing at about 5500ish. Lastly, the 20tq gap from the 481tq peak of the ls7 to the 500 line is inconsistent with the gap from the 400 line to the gt350's 429tq. The major issue is that ford opted to release a useless graph with a 600 tq value and 550hp. On fords graph hp and torque cross in the 45-4800rpm range iirc.

Lastly, the gt350 makes nearly peak power well into 8,000rpms as the ford dyno release showed. In the graph listed here, it falls off far worse than it should from 7500rpm.

The ls7 is great but I would like to see Chevy revise it to about 550hp. It has the potential and would help Chevy continue to command an ls7 premium. As it sits, the 455-460hp 6.2 is too close to the ls7's output to command a typical $25-40k premium. Many have argued the majority of the z28's $75k price (advertised as the cost of the vehicle) is because an ls7 is a $20k+ crate engine. I wonder what a z28 with a 460hp 6.2 would really leave on the table vs an ls7 z28. Price wise it would likely have left $15-20k in a buyers pocket.

[BaylorCamaro]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Nice work but those graphs =/= comparable. The gt350 graph is scales with 550hp and 600tq iirc from the ford release. Also, you can easily tell that both vehicles power and torque crosses aren't at 5252rpms which they have to be because physics. The gt350's is crossing at about 5700ish.

Lastly, unless the gt350 makes nearly peak power well into 8,000rpms as the ford dyno release showed. In the graph listed here, it falls off far worse than it should from 7500rpm.

The ls7 is great but I would like to see Chevy revise it to about 550hp. It has the potential and would help Chevy continue to command an ls7 premium. As it sits, the 455-460hp 6.2 is too close to the ls7's output to command a typical $25-40k premium. Many have argued the majority of the z28's $75k price (advertised as the cost of the vehicle) is because an ls7 is a $20k+ crate engine. I wonder what a z28 with a 460hp 6.2 would really leave on the table vs an ls7 z28. Price wise it would likely have left $15-20k in a buyers pocket.

Numbers are from dyno graphs provided by the manufacturers. The numbers were eyeballed and by no means 100% accurate. Measurements were taken every 500 rpms and as such the curves look slightly different especially at 1,000 rpms and redline than if the sampling rate was every 100 rpms, etc. However it does show the curves for both engines for comparison which is really what I was trying to convey. For reference here is Fords engine dyno.

[tt335ci03cobra]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/atta...0&d=1433266839

[xc_SS/RS]

Originally Posted by tt335ci03cobra

Nice work but those graphs =/= comparable. The gt350 graph is scales with 550hp and 600tq iirc from the ford release. Also, you can easily tell that both vehicles power and torque crosses aren't at 5252rpms which they have to be because physics. The gt350's is crossing at about 5500ish. Lastly, the 20tq gap from the 481tq peak of the ls7 to the 500 line is much larger than the gap from the 400 line to the gt350's 429tq. It should be the other way because 19 is a smaller number than 29 so the gaps should be noticeably reflective of that difference. The major issue is that ford opted to release a useless graph with a 600 tq value and 550hp. On fords graph hp and torque cross in the 45-4800rpm range iirc.

Lastly, the gt350 makes nearly peak power well into 8,000rpms as the ford dyno release showed. In the graph listed here, it falls off far worse than it should from 7500rpm.

The ls7 is great but I would like to see Chevy revise it to about 550hp. It has the potential and would help Chevy continue to command an ls7 premium. As it sits, the 455-460hp 6.2 is too close to the ls7's output to command a typical $25-40k premium. Many have argued the majority of the z28's $75k price (advertised as the cost of the vehicle) is because an ls7 is a $20k+ crate engine. I wonder what a z28 with a 460hp 6.2 would really leave on the table vs an ls7 z28. Price wise it would likely have left $15-20k in a buyers pocket.

I dunno the suspension is also fairly pricey as are the brakes, wheels and tires so those probably jack the price up decently. The engine will certainly be cause for a lot of the price increase though for sure.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

Numbers are from dyno graphs provided by the manufacturers. The numbers were eyeballed and by no means 100% accurate. Measurements were taken every 500 rpms and as such the curves look slightly different especially at 1,000 rpms and redline than if the sampling rate was every 100 rpms, etc. However it does show the curves for both engines for comparison which is really what I was trying to convey. For reference here is Fords engine dyno.

You did about as best as could be done given fords odd value choices. With the engine generating less tq than hp, you would think ford would scale torque at say 500 vs 600 but instead they made the torque seem even less substantial by using a 600 scale... I don't understand why manufacture's scale dyno's at anything differing from 1:1 tq and hp scales. Every dyno I've ever had performed had equal max scale values for both, with hp/tq being equal at 5252.

Again great work on your part, it's just manufacturers messing with an unbroken system to advertise their own marketing points. Maybe ford wanted to show its so rev happy, I am legitimately unmoved and jaded by the choice as I wanted a legitimate dyno to look at but ford chose to leave that up to people with the desire to make a proper graph. Good work nonetheless.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by xc_SS/RS

I dunno the suspension is also fairly pricey as are the brakes, wheels and tires so those probably jack the price up decently. The engine will certainly be cause for a lot of the price increase though for sure.

Absolutely. At a minimum the car would have still been $55k with a 6.2, there is just far too many tweaks and changes for it to be sold any lower.

If it was like 2005 where 505hp was exceptional and easily commanded a $75k price, I'd be all about the z28, but I think GM could pull 550hp+ from an ls7 revision while losing a few lbs, maybe 5-10, and bridging a gap from rivals. It's a sad truth that a scatpack challenger makes 485hp with 6.4L. Yes it's heavier and simpler but that's only a 20hp difference. What's more is dodge underrated the engine if dyno results are accurate. Many ls7's dyno 445whp with a manual transmission. Scatpack challengers have seen 440whp in manual transmission cars and 432whp (iirc) in an 8spd auto as tested by hotrod magazine. No, there is no science to comparing dyno numbers but when the numbers fall within 2-3% continuously it spells a pattern.

I want the gen 6 z28 to come in around 3650lbs +/- with 505+hp and a $50-65k range much like the gt350. Let people option up to the all star, or buy the less optioned model if they want. I think the gt350 should be sold with a track and tech option though. I feel it would better warrant $60k if I could make an m4 of sorts with comforts/luxuries and speed.

[titanfan]

There is a thread over on that other site with a poll of folks who have ordered a GT350. If you look at the numbers, it is pretty obvious that Ford's multiple option strategy is going to sell a lot of cars whereas GM's "here you go, we already decided what you want in a z/28, so give us your money" approach has made it hard to move the cars to anyone but the dedicated track jockey or people looking to add the car to a collection.

More people are optioning their GT350/GT350R's with the technology/electronics packages than without.

[PYROLYSIS]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

There is a thread over on that other site with a poll of folks who have ordered a GT350. If you look at the numbers, it is pretty obvious that Ford's multiple option strategy is going to sell a lot of cars whereas GM's "here you go, we already decided what you want in a z/28, so give us your money" approach has made it hard to move the cars to anyone but the dedicated track jockey or people looking to add the car to a collection.

More people are optioning their GT350/GT350R's with the technology/electronics packages than without.

Well, they have a chance to look at the numbers and do it differently this time around. Personally I would have gone for the 1SS on my 1LE if I could have gotten HUD as a stand alone option. And I wouldn't mind cloth Recaros either.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ztwentypoop

There is a thread over on that other site with a poll of folks who have ordered a GT350. If you look at the numbers, it is pretty obvious that Ford's multiple option strategy is going to sell a lot of cars whereas GM's "here you go, we already decided what you want in a z/28, so give us your money" approach has made it hard to move the cars to anyone but the dedicated track jockey or people looking to add the car to a collection.

More people are optioning their GT350/GT350R's with the technology/electronics packages than without.

I'm of the opinion that Chevy did not want to produce 10,000 LS7 engines for guys to daily drive Z/28s. Not a volume engine. 2015 production vs sales says they did however expect more takers then showed up.

So... they over produced by ~700 units. I bet they still consider it a marketing success that elevated the Camaro brand.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

I'm of the opinion that Chevy did not want to produce 10,000 LS7 engines for guys to daily drive Z/28s. Not a volume engine. 2015 production vs sales says they did however expect more takers then showed up.

So... they over produced by ~700 units. I bet they still consider it a marketing success that elevated the Camaro brand.

No doubt. I'm actually in negotiations with a dealer for a 2015 z as we speak. Bonus for last quarter was awesome, so I could very well have three track-intent vehicles in my garage by the beginning of 2016.