Inside Line: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 vs. 2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Comparison

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by richtor

Do you mean factory stock or no option vs no option vehicles? The base 13 gt500 will out turn and out run the track pack 12 gt500. and with a definitive power advantage it could keep up on bigger circuits.

I was responding to VTXFrank's post where he was complaining that people were adding extra $$ to the gt500 price when comparing to the zl1. He was saying "full factory stock trim" the gt500 could compete fine. I'm not really sure if he meant optionless or not.

The racing organization nasa refers to this as BTM (base trim model). When you add performance options, you are given points. If you rack up enough points then you go to the next higher difficulty category.

The points aren't relevant to our discussion. But the perf options do cost you. It's just in dollars, not points.

I was responding that on a road course, at a minimum, you would need the perf pack. I guess you could skip the track pack, but I doubt any mag review taking it to the track would do this. And thus you're going to see a approx 10%+ price difference in most reviews.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Hate is too strong of a word. Sorry.

I am not arguing that the GT500 handles better than a ZL1 on a road course. It probably doesn't.

I am arguing that the capability on a mountain road, at slightly above the speed limit, is his opinion and you are taking it as fact.

I refuse to acknowledge a winner based on some guys spirited driving on a mountain road. This guy had an opinion before he set foot in either car. The outcome was pre-determined in his mind before the "test."

I actually like the Mustang, and I am indifferent when it comes to drag racing as I just don't care.

Yes it is his (and the other reviewers) opinion, I am taking as the information that we have up to this point. We don't have any other review to go by, I certainly feel that we should wait for more reviews however as long as we are discussing this review is it wrong to talk about it?.

This is Inside Line a source that picks the Mustang over the Camaro in V-6 and GT form. I don't think you can make the argument that they are biased for GM over Ford because you would have to ignore all previous reviews that they made.

Does it really bother you so much to see the Camaro in 1st and the Mustang in 2nd?. No one wins everything.......

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

I refuse to acknowledge a winner based on some guys spirited driving on a mountain road. This guy had an opinion before he set foot in either car. The outcome was pre-determined in his mind before the "test."

BUT when it is 2 different drivers on the same road getting the same result would't you even give a little validity that what he said is true? If you read the artical you would see they swapped drivers after the first run with the same result. So are you saying they both did't do their best driving the Shelby?

Sorry I may be accused of stirring the pot again...

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

BUT when it is 2 different drivers on the same road getting the same result would't you even give a little validity that what he said is true? If you read the artical you would see they swapped drivers after the first run with the same result. So are you saying they both did't do their best driving the Shelby?

Sorry I may be accused of stirring the pot again...

That part doesn't really bother him, what does is he doesn't like the results of the article as the wrong car won....

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by doc7000

That part doesn't really bother him, what does is he doesn't like the results of the article as the wrong car won....

They won't be happy until someone finds a road course track with super long straights that will give the Shelby the edge. Then they will say that was a "TRUE" test.
I have come to the conclusion that they will never accept any kind of loss. There will always be some excuse why the test was not valid. I can accept the fact the Shelby is faster in a straight line, but until it is proven otherwise the ZL1 is as of now the better handling car. Can anyone provide proof that what I just stated is incorrect?

[LINMUP]

Originally Posted by Skyman 08

They won't be happy until someone finds a road course track with super long straights that will give the Shelby the edge. Then they will say that was a "TRUE" test.
I have come to the conclusion that they will never accept any kind of loss. There will always be some excuse why the test was not valid. I can accept the fact the Shelby is faster in a straight line, but until it is proven otherwise the ZL1 is as of now the better handling car. Can anyone provide proof that what I just stated is incorrect?

Lol...this entire statement is SO TRUE. I have been on a local Mustang website..GTAMC.com and there are alot of guys that say that the testing was bias, or GM must have paid for it etc....they just can't get over the fact that the ZL1 might just be a better all around car.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Hate is too strong of a word. Sorry.

I am not arguing that the GT500 handles better than a ZL1 on a road course. It probably doesn't.

I am arguing that the capability on a mountain road, at slightly above the speed limit, is his opinion and you are taking it as fact.

I refuse to acknowledge a winner based on some guys spirited driving on a mountain road. This guy had an opinion before he set foot in either car. The outcome was pre-determined in his mind before the "test."

Actually according to the article, the drivers (plural) switch cars and had the same results and came to the same Conclusion, there nothing "pre-determined" about that. This should not be a surprise, magna ride 3.0 is far superior towhat the mustang has. The Zeta 2 chasis is newer, stiffer, better better weight distribution to the mustang chasis that dates back to the old Lincoln LS. P.T.M. and wider wheels and tires gives it even more of an edge in the twistys. Giving credit to the Camaro were its deserves does not take away from the great job ford has done with the GT 500.

[alexcfwu]

Much anticipated comparison, and not so surprising result. Thank you for posting.

Would be nice to see how they perform at Leguna Seca (or the Nurburgring)...

[LINMUP]

Originally Posted by alexcfwu

Much anticipated comparison, and not so surprising result. Thank you for posting.

Would be nice to see how they perform at Leguna Seca (or the Nurburgring)...

We already know how the ZL1 performed at the ring....and with it being such a popular place to test a performance car these days it surprises me that the Shelby hasn't released and numbers from there.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by richtor

The MR suspension makes it easy to go fast in the ZL1. Just like the GTR I feel the new technology is taking all the fun out of the drive.

If you read the article, you would see that the reviewers enjoyed driving the ZL1 better, which is why they would pass on the extra 100 hp. The ZL1 was simply the better car... in their opinion.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by A-little-perspective

Seriously, I get that you hate Mustang and drag racing but a GT500 is equally capable on mountain roads just like a ZL1. To think otherwise is ignorant.

Public mountain roads are not road courses. Who in their right mind is going to drive on a mountain road like they drive on a road course?

The handling capabilities of the ZL1, how ever superior they may be, will be proven on a closed circuit course by a professional driver.

Skidpad/slalom/figure-8 are all tests to quantify how well a car will perform on the track and the street. Good times on these tests translate to a car that is a blast to drive on or off the track.

You don't have to drive like an maniac to feel the difference. Cars that do well in these tests typically exhibit less body roll in daily driving and deliver lateral G's sooner on turn-in.

But since these tests don't mean anything to you. Go ahead and go buy a car with 0.8 lateral g's... have fun with that!

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by mlee

Heck I'll accuse you of that... you really don't bring much to the table here except stirring the pot.

Hmmm if you say so. I will now leave it all up to you. The all knowing ZL1 God of the forum. I bow to your greatness...

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by mlee

Heck I'll accuse you of that... you really don't bring much to the table here except stirring the pot.

I sure hope that the pot gets stirred before it gets to the table, other wise you just make a mess stirring it at the table.

[alexcfwu]

Originally Posted by LINMUP

We already know how the ZL1 performed at the ring....and with it being such a popular place to test a performance car these days it surprises me that the Shelby hasn't released and numbers from there.

That's right... totally forgot about that.

On the other hand. I would love to see Motortrend asking Randy Pobst to drive these two beasts at Leguna Seca on the same day (hopefully same condition).

I wonder when will they (GM and Ford) produce 1000hps stock ponies at this bargain price, .