I want a tune..but can I go back? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

sexystreetmachine · 10-31-2010, 05:19 PM

Okay I'm sure this has been answered but I cant find the clear cut answer im looking for so here it goes.

I really want to get a tuner for my LS3. The fella's at the dealership were telling me that I could do bolt ons, but if I throw a tuner on there it will void the warranty immediately. From what he says, when warranty work is performed, diagnostical data is downloaded from the cars ECU and sent to GM before any work is performed, and that they would immediately see it was tampered with and void the warranty.

So is there a way to tune the car and go back to stock without them knowing in case something happens?

Thanks all

ffrcobra_65 · 10-31-2010, 07:46 PM

u wanna play, but don't wanna pay. cheating the dealer can come back and bite u.

SC2150 · 10-31-2010, 07:53 PM

He is not telling you straight. If there is a major warranty claim that they suspect was caused by a tune they then will go through the process to read the flash count to see. otherwise it is an extra step that takes time & cost them $$ they don't want to spend.

All hand held tuners I know of allow you to flash back to stock if you choose, and for a custom tune most save your stock file & can flash it to stock if you choose.

Number 3 · 10-31-2010, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC2150

He is not telling you straight. If there is a major warranty claim that they suspect was caused by a tune they then will go through the process to read the flash count to see. otherwise it is an extra step that takes time & cost them $$ they don't want to spend.

All hand held tuners I know of allow you to flash back to stock if you choose, and for a custom tune most save your stock file & can flash it to stock if you choose.

Except that the Camaro also tells GM what date you flashed and what date you flashed back. It's been covered many times, you can't trick GM on this one. Once you modify the calibration you are out of warranty.

And any power train warranty requires the dealership to send the calibration for confirmation. I believe there is a service bulletin that covers this as well.

Ron66Vette&10SS · 11-01-2010, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number 3

Except that the Camaro also tells GM what date you flashed and what date you flashed back.

That's a new one. I think I've read most of the tune/warranty threads and that's the first I've heard of that.

And as far as all the "You're cheating the dealer", please, give me a break. If someone were to blow their engine with too much boost and/or timing from a supercharger and then remove the blower before they have it towed to the dealer....now THAT would be cheating the dealer.

But to say that about someone who returns to stock after using a canned tune from a hand held tuner (worth what, 15-20hp TOPS??) before going in for maintenance.....whatever.

I think a lot of this is mis-information and hype meant to scare people away from tunes due to a few idiots either running way too much timing or making some other boneheaded adjustment. It's interesting, to say the least, that I've only read a few times of a powertrain warranty being voided for a tune, and that was when it was taken in without being flashed to stock for a major issue.

But, after all that being said:
Personally, I DO NOT have a tune. Even though I'm leaning towards calling

, for now at least, I don't have a tune "just in case" it is true. I'd hate like hell to have a drivetrain issue and find out the hard way, first hand, that GM can tell you flashed back to stock. I definitely don't want to be the first guy to post "Re-flashed to stock, GM saw it and voided warranty".

*TAG UR IT* · 11-01-2010, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron66Vette&10SS

That's a new one. I think I've read most of the tune/warranty threads and that's the first I've heard of that.

And as far as all the "You're cheating the dealer", please, give me a break. If someone were to blow their engine with too much boost and/or timing from a supercharger and then remove the blower before they have it towed to the dealer....now THAT would be cheating the dealer.

But to say that about someone who returns to stock after using a canned tune from a hand held tuner (worth what, 15-20hp TOPS??) before going in for maintenance.....whatever.

I think a lot of this is mis-information and hype meant to scare people away from tunes due to a few idiots either running way too much timing or making some other boneheaded adjustment. It's interesting, to say the least, that I've only read a few times of a powertrain warranty being voided for a tune, and that was when it was taken in without being flashed to stock for a major issue.

But, after all that being said:
Personally, I DO NOT have a tune. Even though I'm leaning towards calling

, for now at least, I don't have a tune "just in case" it is true. I'd hate like hell to have a drivetrain issue and find out the hard way, first hand, that GM can tell you flashed back to stock. I definitely don't want to be the first guy to post "Re-flashed to stock, GM saw it and voided warranty".

we've had more than several GM employees posting what CAN happen on these boards if you tune your car. Calling BS on them is like....well...that is ridiculous in itself.

You said it yourself. GM ... well, here...

Quote:

I think a lot of this is mis-information and hype meant to scare people away from tunes due to a few idiots either running way too much timing or making some other boneheaded adjustment

...and this is why your cars warranty will be voided if a tune is detected or calibration has been changed. It states it very clearly in the warranty and there is no getting around it if you decide to follow through. While I might agree that getting a hand held tuner and tuning your car SAFELY won't hurt anything, that's NOT why GM voids warranties. It's not GM's responsibility to test each and every tune to the mods that a car has and determine if that tune is in fact, "safe." So, if you tune, you lose the warranty.

OP, you really need to ask yourself this question.

IS IT WORTH IT?

IS IT WORTH LOSING YOUR WARRANTY FOR 15 HP?

Play it safe and keep the warranty. You blow the engine and guess how much it's going to run to change it out... how about blowing the trans... You won't be happy with those numbers for 15hp.

OP, I hope this helps.

(NOTE: I never said there was anything wrong with tuning. Some people couldn't give a crap about warranties or care less about specifics. For those people, more power to you. But, for those who care, listen to those who are offering the advice.)

*GTAHVIT* · 11-01-2010, 11:32 AM

To add some thoughts.

Based on the members here, very few times has GM asked the dealer to check the tunes on camaros in for a warranty repair.

My guess is if you need a new engine then yes GM will ask for the tune history. and will void the repair if it has been flashed by anyone other than GM.

But I would also say that 99% of the time if the repair is reasonable and you have the stock tune in the car the dealer won't deny a warranty repair.

But. when the car is tuned, you run the risk of getting a warranty calim denied.

It is true no BS. GM can tell if the car has been flashed or not.

FWIW.

danhr · 11-01-2010, 11:53 AM

Just a quick, and in my opinion, realistic scenario that I think would be a "worst case scenario"

Person does exhaust/headers/cai/tune on their ls3/manual car.

The car does the infamous "break the output shaft on the tr6060 transmission" problem.

Owner takes car in, for transmission work, hoping for it to be under warranty

Dealer checks pcm. Blames transmission breaking due to "increased power and removal of torque managment" (if i remember correctly, people see ~60 rwtq with tunes, so that gives you an idea on how much torque managment limits the power going through the transmission).

That "15 hp" just cost you a transmission, and now you must pay to replace it, out of your own pocket.

SC2150 · 11-01-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

To add some thoughts.

Based on the members here, very few times has GM asked the dealer to check the tunes on camaros in for a warranty repair.

My guess is if you need a new engine then yes GM will ask for the tune history. and will void the repair if it has been flashed by anyone other than GM.

But I would also say that 99% of the time if the repair is reasonable and you have the stock tune in the car the dealer won't deny a warranty repair.

But. when the car is tuned, you run the risk of getting a warranty calim denied.

It is true no BS. GM can tell if the car has been flashed or not.

FWIW.

You are 100% correct. The ability is with out a doubt there, but is only requested in major power train failures. I work with several active GM techs and get their input all the time.

SC2150 · 11-01-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danhr

Just a quick, and in my opinion, realistic scenario that I think would be a "worst case scenario"

Person does exhaust/headers/cai/tune on their ls3/manual car.

The car does the infamous "break the output shaft on the tr6060 transmission" problem.

Owner takes car in, for transmission work, hoping for it to be under warranty

Dealer checks pcm. Blames transmission breaking due to "increased power and removal of torque managment" (if i remember correctly, people see ~60 rwtq with tunes, so that gives you an idea on how much torque managment limits the power going through the transmission).

That "15 hp" just cost you a transmission, and now you must pay to replace it, out of your own pocket.

The built in "comfort slippage" of the clutches will wear a tranny out faster than a firm shift. I build these trannies and see first hand. So a tune not only can gain power & fuel economy by optimzing the fuel trims & timing, AND can result in the trans lasting longer. Now abuse wih M removed can contribute to failure....no argumnet there.

Rage · 11-01-2010, 01:35 PM

60 RWTQ...really. Wow. Is there a dramatic difference in drive quality/ butt dyno? I know Im thread jacking, but thats amazing. Would that also affect you 0-60/1/4 mile times?

caverman · 11-01-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rage

60 RWTQ...really. Wow. Is there a dramatic difference in drive quality/ butt dyno? I know Im thread jacking, but thats amazing. Would that also affect you 0-60/1/4 mile times?

No...60 rwhp is unrealistic. ~35-40 rwhp is realistic. Not saying it doesn't still have the same effect.....Just say, don't think you'll truely get those numbers.

My car went from 378 rwhp (larger # than normal because of my rear cat-removal and CAI) to 411 rwhp after Headers/Exhaust/Tune.

My ET dropped at least .5 at the track and I think I can get more. Before headers I was doing everything I could to get a 8.xx in the 1/8th mile. I was typically a 9.1-9.2. After the headers I immediately pulled a 8.6 and I think I could get it down to 8.3 - 8.4 with more practice launching the car.

All this talk about a tune does scare me some but I love the car even more now and I think they are pretty solid built. Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't even have to put the warranty into question.

danhr · 11-01-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caverman

No...60 rwhp is unrealistic. ~35-40 rwhp is realistic. Not saying it doesn't still have the same effect.....Just say, don't think you'll truely get those numbers.

My car went from 378 rwhp (larger # than normal because of my rear cat-removal and CAI) to 411 rwhp after Headers/Exhaust/Tune.

My ET dropped at least .5 at the track and I think I can get more. Before headers I was doing everything I could to get a 8.xx in the 1/8th mile. I was typically a 9.1-9.2. After the headers I immediately pulled a 8.6 and I think I could get it down to 8.3 - 8.4 with more practice launching the car.

All this talk about a tune does scare me some but I love the car even more now and I think they are pretty solid built. Keeping my fingers crossed that I don't even have to put the warranty into question.

no one said 60 rwhp..... it was 60 rw TORQUE (this is why it's called torque management, not horsepower management). look at the bassani car.... they gained 60+ rwtq by adding a catback (which have proved to be nearly no gain at all on a stock car), a cold air intake, and a tune. The key part in the tune (because it was just a diablo) was that it turned off torque management.

SGOS252382 · 11-02-2010, 01:32 PM

It all about what you want (now and in the future).

If I wanted to keep my full GM warranty, I wouldn't get my car tuned. I'd probably keep it bone stock (with the exception of a catback exhaust for sound).
But I love modding my cars and I love drag racing. I also knew I was getting headers, intake, etc in the future. So I got my car tuned right after getting it. But my car is an L99 A6 and they show a pretty nice increase in performance with just a tune.
The LS3 M6s don't benefit from a tune as much as the L99 A6s.

My L99 A6 went from 313 ft lbs to 338 ft lbs with just a tune.That's 25 ft lbs. I also picked up around 30 ft lbs from 4500 - 5500 rpms. Trust me, that's something you can definately feel. That along with firmer/faster shifts makes the car much more fun to drive (and just flat out faster).

It's also important who does the tuning. Not every tune is equal. I got my car tuned my Jeremy Formato (www.fasterproms.net). He really knows what he's doing.

So it comes down to what you want out of your car, and if you're willing to face the consequences if something happens. For some of us its more than worth it.
But for some others, it might not be the right decision.

If I had an LS3 M6 and I wasn't planning on getting any serious mods in the near future, I'd definately hold off on getting a tune.

10-31-2010, 05:19 PM	#1
sexystreetmachine Go Baby, GO!! Drives: 2010 2SS/RS, 1968 SS, 1993 Z28 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 184 View My Garage	I want a tune..but can I go back? Okay I'm sure this has been answered but I cant find the clear cut answer im looking for so here it goes. I really want to get a tuner for my LS3. The fella's at the dealership were telling me that I could do bolt ons, but if I throw a tuner on there it will void the warranty immediately. From what he says, when warranty work is performed, diagnostical data is downloaded from the cars ECU and sent to GM before any work is performed, and that they would immediately see it was tampered with and void the warranty. So is there a way to tune the car and go back to stock without them knowing in case something happens? Thanks all __________________ "I WANNA GO FAST"

11-01-2010, 11:32 AM	#7
GTAHVIT Blessed Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saint Augustine FL Posts: 28,444 View My Garage	To add some thoughts. Based on the members here, very few times has GM asked the dealer to check the tunes on camaros in for a warranty repair. My guess is if you need a new engine then yes GM will ask for the tune history. and will void the repair if it has been flashed by anyone other than GM. But I would also say that 99% of the time if the repair is reasonable and you have the stock tune in the car the dealer won't deny a warranty repair. But. when the car is tuned, you run the risk of getting a warranty calim denied. It is true no BS. GM can tell if the car has been flashed or not. FWIW. __________________ Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals."

11-01-2010, 11:53 AM	#8
danhr BAMF SS Drives: 2016 Camaro 1SS A8 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Ford City, PA Posts: 3,023	Just a quick, and in my opinion, realistic scenario that I think would be a "worst case scenario" Person does exhaust/headers/cai/tune on their ls3/manual car. The car does the infamous "break the output shaft on the tr6060 transmission" problem. Owner takes car in, for transmission work, hoping for it to be under warranty Dealer checks pcm. Blames transmission breaking due to "increased power and removal of torque managment" (if i remember correctly, people see ~60 rwtq with tunes, so that gives you an idea on how much torque managment limits the power going through the transmission). That "15 hp" just cost you a transmission, and now you must pay to replace it, out of your own pocket. __________________ 2016 1SS A8: FBO + Circle D + P1X + Meth + Tuned by Pray Performance Stock Longblock 800 SAE rwhp. 9.4 @ 145 mph.

11-01-2010, 01:35 PM	#11
Rage TRI-COUNTY CAMARO... FTW! Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS M6 Cyber Grey Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,200 View My Garage	60 RWTQ...really. Wow. Is there a dramatic difference in drive quality/ butt dyno? I know Im thread jacking, but thats amazing. Would that also affect you 0-60/1/4 mile times? __________________ CAI inc. cold air intake, LG G6x3 cam, Patriot Gold Extreme Dual springs, Titanium retainers and locks, LG SuperPro 1 7/8 Long Tube headers with full 3" exhaust, DynoMax VT mufflers, SLP 4" tips, Moroso catch can, Race Ready electronic exhaust cut outs, Full painted Razzi body kit, Headlight Armor Smoke taillight and marker blackouts, T-Rex aluminum upper and lower grille, Polished aluminum front and rear bowties. Professionally installed and Dyno Tuned by HorsePower Sales, Pompano Beach FL.

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10-31-2010, 07:46 PM	#2
ffrcobra_65 Account Suspended Drives: SuperCharged 2SS/RS IOM MN6 Join Date: May 2009 Location: CA Posts: 5,094	u wanna play, but don't wanna pay. cheating the dealer can come back and bite u.

10-31-2010, 07:53 PM	#3
SC2150 Account Suspended Drives: 2012 Camaro RS, RX supercharged Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bradenton, FL Posts: 6,063	He is not telling you straight. If there is a major warranty claim that they suspect was caused by a tune they then will go through the process to read the flash count to see. otherwise it is an extra step that takes time & cost them $$ they don't want to spend. All hand held tuners I know of allow you to flash back to stock if you choose, and for a custom tune most save your stock file & can flash it to stock if you choose.

11-02-2010, 01:32 PM	#14
SGOS252382 Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: S.W. Florida Posts: 6,294	It all about what you want (now and in the future). If I wanted to keep my full GM warranty, I wouldn't get my car tuned. I'd probably keep it bone stock (with the exception of a catback exhaust for sound). But I love modding my cars and I love drag racing. I also knew I was getting headers, intake, etc in the future. So I got my car tuned right after getting it. But my car is an L99 A6 and they show a pretty nice increase in performance with just a tune. The LS3 M6s don't benefit from a tune as much as the L99 A6s. My L99 A6 went from 313 ft lbs to 338 ft lbs with just a tune.That's 25 ft lbs. I also picked up around 30 ft lbs from 4500 - 5500 rpms. Trust me, that's something you can definately feel. That along with firmer/faster shifts makes the car much more fun to drive (and just flat out faster). It's also important who does the tuning. Not every tune is equal. I got my car tuned my Jeremy Formato (www.fasterproms.net). He really knows what he's doing. So it comes down to what you want out of your car, and if you're willing to face the consequences if something happens. For some of us its more than worth it. But for some others, it might not be the right decision. If I had an LS3 M6 and I wasn't planning on getting any serious mods in the near future, I'd definately hold off on getting a tune.