Black ICE vs MACE 25mm

[Mike Norris]

I agree that it may not make a difference in the amount of mods, but only one way to find out.

I mentioned the main reason I would like to do that testing in that 90% of the folks out there on a budget will only want to do, or only be to afford to do, a VMax TB, intake spacer (Mace or VMax) and some kind of CAI.

All in all good info and hope to hear from MACE or one of the US suppliers (If there are any).

Mike Norris

[BowtieBelle]

Seems like six one way, half-dozen the other to me?

[Mike Norris]

Originally Posted by BowtieBelle

Seems like six one way, half-dozen the other to me?

Always good to get a gals perspective To be honest, I do not know of anyone that can feel a difference of anything less the 10HP or 10TQ in a 4000 pound car and this is 3HP one way and and 5TQ the other.

Mike Norris

[hapisok]

i don't disagree with seeing what the gains will be on a stockish motor...just not certain that data will be any more conclusive, thats the point im trying to make.

here is my original dyno before/after with MACE's 25mm...mods: Injen CAI, RX TB, 25mm spacer, TUNE (93 octane), and ARK exhaust. since then, i've added a ported IM and run on E85. the difference was noticeable then and still noticeable now...just sayin.

if you look closer, you'll see the gain on the TQ gain on the previous dyno does hint around a 10point gain vs 5. 10HP/TQ is noticeable when your in the 200's range. 10HP/TQ difference on a 500HP motor won't be as noticeable on a butt dyno, but at that point your now talking tenth's - thousandths of a second on the 1/4 mile where you'll see the difference.

following dyno is for reference purposes only in regards to this conversation. not intended to promote one product or the other. simply as a reference to the shift of HP/TQ and the user (myself) feedback.

[BowtieBelle]

Originally Posted by Mike Norris

Always good to get a gals perspective To be honest, I do not know of anyone that can feel a difference of anything less the 10HP or 10TQ in a 4000 pound car and this is 3HP one way and and 5TQ the other.

Mike Norris

My sentiments exactly!

[ChadG]

Bmore you should really start a thread about how you got the 25mm + Vararam to work out with tons of pics!

Not like you're busy with Vince or anything!

[bmorecam]

Originally Posted by ChadG

Bmore you should really start a thread about how you got the 25mm + Vararam to work out with tons of pics!

Not like you're busy with Vince or anything!

Uhhhh.. you are no good chad LOL!

Got everything I need for the dyno, FINALLY, so I should be back on the dyno sometime early next week for my own tuning needs and also to find out if the update is going to happen or not.

As far as the vararam and 25mm spacer...I just don't know if is really even a thread starting subject. You basically have to do a little sculpting and just cut the rear neck to an angle until you are comfortable with the gap at the radiator. I actually used a die grinder with my 80 grit cartridge rolls that I use for porting since I had it next to me at the time of doing this. A dremel would work perfect too. Also note that the angle does not have to perfectly match up with the tip of the throttle body. The rear neck will line up straight with the top and bottom area regardless of the angle due to the red coupler that hold the rear neck and the throttle body together. You just have to focus on the front gap. Just shave off small amount at a time until you are comfortable with the gap.



I was going to take some pics for you guys today but I ended up making a mistake and spilled some engine degreaser on my maf and all over my vararam tray and filter. I spent most of the day today cleaning up the mess.

I will post up more pics for you guys sometime tomorrow

[ChadG]

Originally Posted by bmorecam

Uhhhh.. you are no good chad LOL!

Got everything I need for the dyno, FINALLY, so I should be back on the dyno sometime early next week for my own tuning needs and also to find out if the update is going to happen or not.

As far as the vararam and 25mm spacer...I just don't know if is really even a thread starting subject. You basically have to do a little sculpting and just cut the rear neck to an angle until you are comfortable with the gap at the radiator. I actually used a die grinder with my 80 grit cartridge rolls that I use for porting since I had it next to me at the time of doing this. A dremel would work perfect too. Also note that the angle does not have to perfectly match up with the tip of the throttle body. The rear neck will line up straight with the top and bottom area regardless of the angle due to the red coupler that hold the rear neck and the throttle body together. You just have to focus on the front gap. Just shave off small amount at a time until you are comfortable with the gap.

Attachment 352062

I was going to take some pics for you guys today but I ended up making a mistake and spilled some engine degreaser on my maf and all over my vararam tray and filter. I spent most of the day today cleaning up the mess.

I will post up more pics for you guys sometime tomorrow

That's really interesting, have you ever shot those pictures over to the guys at Vararam to see what they thought? Might be worth doing to get how they think that angle would affect turbulence through the throttle body, chances are it's so slight it wouldn't make a difference but I'd be curious to hear what they say.

[bmorecam]

That pic I uploaded is actually the rear neck cut to a slant by vararam guys their self when we was having fitment issues last year. I asked Steve@vr already about this and he said that it was ok and shouldn't alter performance. I been checking my logs day and night for anything out of ordinary and from my timing, trims, to airflow is all good.

I know, those darn pics:what: I keep forgetting..I believe either Mach or ventmaster actually did a write up on this not to long ago.

Sent from my POS phone using tapatalk.

[Amenti]

Is it physically possible to stack one of the shorter MACE (maybe the mid-sized one; I don't remember the size) spacers on top of the Black-ICEolator without causing some sort of air leak? =P

[hapisok]

would "probably" work fine as long as you sealed it up good with gasket maker. i did notice after pulling the Black Ice off that it had some minor warping from what i believe was caused by heat stress. i think you could pair it up with the 25mm insulator, which will use all the available space up to the wiper cowl. but the term "keep it simple..." might be one of those things thats plays a role if you get too many moving pieces. guess its worth a shot. the Black Ice is right around 9-10mm think (leaning closer to 9 if i remember correctly).

[Indy Bumble Bee]

Originally Posted by SC2150

Well done. We respect the Mace products as we do any other porven competing products that we know are good and perform as advertised, direct competitor or not we post it like we see it and some dont want to here that (were talking all products we manufacture or endorse). When we praise a competitors product it has earned it, and the same as when we point out those falling short. Any that know us well know we do our evaluations based upon actual findings and dont play brand or corporate politics as so many do. I know many think it makes no sense to acknolwledge anothers products as good or great when they compete against us and then the personal ego's pop up and it can turn into blind side taking and that is never good for any involved. But as with other products we have praised, the Mace units perform as advertised and we respect them and what they have accomplished. You cant go worng with either.

Class act

[bmorecam]

I agree with hapi, but I wouldn't go pass 25mm, so as long as you can keep mace and vmax under 25mm mated together you should be fine. You guys will find out later why I am saying this Trust me

[Kmorpheus]

Vmax just needs to make a 25 MM Black Ice Plate. But I can't see them doing that to Mace. But what I can see is someone else doing it to both Vmax and Mace. It would be nice if they would combine their products into the Mace\Vmax Performace Heat Isolator.